Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
I think the bloke from the audience summed it up quite well. Before democracy we had violence and civil wars. Seems we're heading back that way if leaving the EU gets fudged.
Brexit and all that shite ....
- Thread starter moonay
- Start date
Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
Corect. But my not according to my phone.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
That's the problem......... Define "fudged".
If I were a Leaver, I'd honestly want a 2nd referendum, to try and ensure that I could shove it down the throats of those I thought were the fudgers.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Your phone's shit.
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Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
We've effectively had two votes on it - the referendum and then the election. There's no need for a third. What we dont also need is a prime minister who's heart isn't in it, nor a good chunk of the cabinet. I'm guessing we'll know the 'fudge' when we see it and staying in a customs union without a voice would certaintly be that.
Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Rubbish. Absolute tosh.
In the referendum, both parties (supposedly) backed the Remain campaign.
In the election, both parties stated that they'd honour the result of the referendum.
Given it was so close a result, with bugger all agreement on what Leave actually means, a confirmatory second vote (third, my arse!) seems a reasonable step.
Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
No you're wrong.
Referendum- leave or stay.
Election - respect the result (Tory and Labour). Scrap it Lib Dems.
Leave the EU is a simple enough direction. It means leave, not stay in in all but name.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
No i'm not wrong. The election had no impact on this issue whatsoever.
I go back to....... WTF does "leave means leave" mean?
So........ You/we voted leave....... We said we'd get a great deal...... In reality, it's a bit (well, a lot) shitty..... and it's all been a lot harder than we thought........ But we could say "bollox to it all" and just bugger off regardless, .......... but we didn't tell you that's what we'd do....... So...... In the immortal words of the Jungle Book Vultures ......... Whaddya wanna do?
As the prostitute said to the virgin...... have another go.
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I go back to....... WTF does "leave means leave" mean?
So........ You/we voted leave....... We said we'd get a great deal...... In reality, it's a bit (well, a lot) shitty..... and it's all been a lot harder than we thought........ But we could say "bollox to it all" and just bugger off regardless, .......... but we didn't tell you that's what we'd do....... So...... In the immortal words of the Jungle Book Vultures ......... Whaddya wanna do?
As the prostitute said to the virgin...... have another go.
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Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
Of course the election had an impact as it ratified the decision to uphold the referendum result.
Leave is very simple, it means bloody leave. No more freedom of movement of goods, capital, people and services. It's only being made difficult by inept and non committed politicians who are failing in their public dutyto do what they promised and were elected to do.
Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
They did, so voting for them in such numbers meant folk were happy to leave the EU, despite the myths perpetuated by people like Notts.
I didn't like the deal as it tied us into an arrangement we couldn't get out of - that can never be acceptable.
There's no need for a confirmation vote, we've already had a legally binding one. According to latest polls no deal is the favoured option though our self obseesed cowards in Westminster would ensure it's not even on one.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Get away MiW........ you don't even sound like you've convinced yersel.!!!
Given their U-turn on university fees, no-one was going to vote for the LibDems...... so the voters had nowhere to go other than the main two parties.
As for ne deal being "the favoured option"........ is that up your drive? It certainly isn't in Westminster, where its been kicked out.! As for "the electorate", state your source.
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Given their U-turn on university fees, no-one was going to vote for the LibDems...... so the voters had nowhere to go other than the main two parties.
As for ne deal being "the favoured option"........ is that up your drive? It certainly isn't in Westminster, where its been kicked out.! As for "the electorate", state your source.
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Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
You gov poll suggests so. Leaving the eu isn't in favour in Westminster, let alone without a deal. Uphold democracy or there will be caranage and people really will have no where to go politically.
Anyway I'll leave it there for tonight, some of us have to work for a living in a few hours.
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
No MPs have come out with any credit!
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Yeah......... point taken. I was meaning "comparatively".
king_dezeeuw06
Vital Champions League
It's not an either or - we have some influence and can veto some things but it doesn't mean we have a massive influence and can veto everything and our elected MEPs can't propose legislation.
For example as mentioned earlier in this thread Article 11 and 13 are coming in weather we want them or not now it has passed and future UK governments will not have the power to remove them if they dont like it as an EU member. Another example is we also cant remove VAT. We can also potentially have laws passed onto us that are oposed by all UK MEPs by a majority meaning the UK could end up with legislation that literally not a single British member of the public or politician voted in favour of. It's an inevitable by product of pooling sovregnity - it's just a case of if pepple are happy with that or not. Personally i think decentralisation of power with more power going to local authorities away from Westminister is much healthier for democracy rather than authority becoming increasingly centralised as the EU have said the plan is.
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moonay
Vital Football Legend
KDZ, there's much been made of laws being passed to us by the EU which we're not happy with, but when Politicians are pushed, they rarely come up with anything tangible.
I know you've said there's this stuff re the internet due to come in (though given that its almost uncontrollable now, God knows what they think they're going to do), but we control the VAT rate .......and it ain't ever going away !
Brexiteer Politicians often try to portray EU councillors as faceless bureaucrats, hell bent on cocking things up for everyone................ I've got to say, the Irish leader in the EU (Mairead McGuinness) on QT last night was a million times better than most of our rabble.
Scare stories. They're following Trump's example ................ and it almost worked.
I know you've said there's this stuff re the internet due to come in (though given that its almost uncontrollable now, God knows what they think they're going to do), but we control the VAT rate .......and it ain't ever going away !
Brexiteer Politicians often try to portray EU councillors as faceless bureaucrats, hell bent on cocking things up for everyone................ I've got to say, the Irish leader in the EU (Mairead McGuinness) on QT last night was a million times better than most of our rabble.
Scare stories. They're following Trump's example ................ and it almost worked.
Our elected MEPs are there to line their pockets. How many meetings have they attended?
Who has the "massive influence" then? What is the criteria to push laws etc through?
Art 11 & 13 I support. The Internet generation has been taking and not paying which causes the "near" death of book sales", newspaper closedown etc etc. I do not want my copyright items to be stolen so of course I support the Articles.
Nothing wrong with Vat which is an equitable tax imo (note necessities are not subject to Vat). I suppose you're also aware of the advantageous triangulation VAT rules between the EU countries.
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