Brexit and all that shite .... | Page 31 | Vital Football

Brexit and all that shite ....

nottinghamlatic said:
Governments since 1973 have failed to inform the electorate about the significance of the EU ....hardly does it get a mention in the school curriculum. It used to be on an ALevel Economics paper which I used to teach, but it was taken off about 10 years ago. Hence people.....generally...have not much idea of what it is all about. It's not that voters are thick...They are just ill informed.
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To follow that though you could say the younger generations are likely to have less knoweldge about the EU as they have not been taught about it while those a bit older will have a bit more knowledge as were taught a bit back in the day. Yet most of the young folk like the EU and most of the older generations dont - that could imply the opposite of your suggestion - the more we inform people know about the EU the less they like it.

There are a lot of people very knoweldge about the EU who don't like it so there is every chance that if you taught the kids more about the EU (that wasn't biased one way or another) it's popularity would go down rather than up as it's already about a 70-30 split in favour for youngsters. I imainge the most likely outcome would be like the rest of the country - mixed - some people love it and some hate it.

We could also say the same with Marxist inspired communist and socialst dictators of history - they don't seem to get taught that much in school compared to other areas of history. We learn lots about Hitler and the facist ideology is regarded as so bad because of it bet yet Mao and Stalins communism / socialist regimes killed more people than the Nazis but calling yourself a commie is considered much more acceptable when it should be considered just as bad. I suspect there is a good chace if they were taught without any bias the youthful embrace of Marxist ideoly would maybe not be quite so enthusiastic if knew of the of it's historical examples being applied.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
I think you meant to say the right has moved so far to the right that it would make Thatcher look left wing.
Not just here, but globally. The drift to nationalism and populist movements is quite frightening. To hear right wingers in the Tory Party accuse Labour of being Marxist is quite amusing.
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Do you genuinely look at the Tory party today and think they are more right wing than Thatcher?! You know full well that's not remotley true. Do you look at Labour today and think it is closer to Militant or New Labour?

Your chancellor literally says he's a Marxist, he once took the little red book into parliament and quoted Mao, he says he wants to destroy capitalism. Your Leader literally calls you a socialist party and said he thought the UK should have followed Venezuela economic model. He gave a glowing reference to Castro and Chavez on their deaths and have advisors whove previously been invilved with far left organisations. The communist party of Britain has even endorseed Corbyn in the past and many of the restrictions on people from the hard left entering has been removed. They have lurched into bad ideological territory.

If you think Labour haven't moved significantly left and the Torys also shifted considerably more central than Thatcher i think that proves my point on the political distortion.
 
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loudmouthblue said:
I fully agree with that hindley, I am looking forward to our discussions on St Helens MPs and politics.
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I think not mate...politics always bored the bloody pants off me and watching the antics of that 600 strong shower of shite in Westminster I remember why.

I'm a simple soul who cared about simple things like Springfield park and Walkers bitter and my vote on Brexit was steeped in nostalgic memories when times were better and who's to say couldn't be better again when people cared more for others than they do for themselves.

Dream on eh ?
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Do you genuinely look at the Tory party today and think they are more right wing than Thatcher?! You know full well that's not remotley true. Do you look at Labour today and think it is closer to Militant or New Labour?

Your chancellor literally says he's a Marxist, he once took the little red book into parliament and quoted Mao, he says he wants to destroy capitalism. Your Leader literally calls you a socialist party and said he thought the UK should have followed Venezuela economic model. He gave a glowing reference to Castro and Chavez on their deaths and have advisors whove previously been invilved with far left organisations. The communist party of Britain has even endorseed Corbyn in the past and many of the restrictions on people from the hard left entering has been removed. They have lurched into bad ideological territory.

If you think Labour haven't moved significantly left and the Torys also shifted considerably more central than Thatcher i think that proves my point on the political distortion.
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Sorry, but I definitely believe that the Tory Party today is more right wing than Thatcher's crew......Just look at their austerity measures and changes to welfare and pensions. With the LABOUR Party....the name is on the tin...we now have someone who, as the founding fathers of the movement intended, is giving a voice to the silent majority of working people who would otherwise be trampled on by people like IDS and Rees-Mogg. Corbyn is merely taking the Party back to its roots. Under Blair, Labour had become a second Tory Party.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
...........
Not just here, but globally. The drift to nationalism and populist movements is quite frightening.

........ To hear right wingers in the Tory Party accuse Labour of being Marxist is quite amusing.
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I agree with the first part there Notts (though not the Thatcher bit that I've omitted).

As for the Marxist accusation........ isn't that really just aimed at Corbyn and McDonnell in the PLP....... and maybe Momentum too. Certainly not Watson, Thornberry, Benn, Cooper, Nandy, Allen, Kendall, etc etc.
 
moonay said:
I agree with the first part there Notts (though not the Thatcher bit that I've omitted).

As for the Marxist accusation........ isn't that really just aimed at Corbyn and McDonnell in the PLP....... and maybe Momentum too. Certainly not Watson, Thornberry, Benn, Cooper, Nandy, Allen, Kendall, etc etc.
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Absolutely the people running the party. I don't agree with the likes of Nandy , Cooper, Watson on much but they arent dangerous Marxists.
 
I tell you what...... watching BBC QT, that Mairead McGuinness is one hell of an impressive lady.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
Sorry, but I definitely believe that the Tory Party today is more right wing than Thatcher's crew......Just look at their austerity measures and changes to welfare and pensions. With the LABOUR Party....the name is on the tin...we now have someone who, as the founding fathers of the movement intended, is giving a voice to the silent majority of working people who would otherwise be trampled on by people like IDS and Rees-Mogg. Corbyn is merely taking the Party back to its roots. Under Blair, Labour had become a second Tory Party.
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This pretty much sums up my original point the Labour party have gone so far left everyone who was left central becomes right wing and centre right goes far right.

The fact you aren't bothered about Corbyn and McDonnells actions and affiliations mentioned says a lot.

If May started hiring former BNP members to be her strategists, she started waxing lyrical about Pinochet and Britain First were endorsing her - i somehow think you'd not be as willing to turn a blind eye as your partys leadership doing the left wing equivalent.

I dont like the Torys but Labour is far worse at the moment under Corbyn. If they had someone normal in charge theyd be about 25 points ahead of the worst ever PM we've had in the process of killing her party.
 
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Speaking of question time,disgrace that the BBC cancelled the show being filmed in Bolton at the last minute because their guests should be made to travel to the north!!
 
loudmouthblue said:
His wholehearted support ??

Didn't he say anyone who had committed a crime should face the process of the law ? Is that something you disagree with.

Can I ask you who decided to investigate these soldier's actions and which government implemented the decision prosecute them and more so why has corbyn been the one you have aimed your wrath at over it.
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I was trying to explain why some of our elite soldiers are using a picture of his mug as target practice. His terrorist links are well documented and he seemed keen to see prosecutions from an event a half century ago whilst happy the other side are pardoned for crimes. This event occurred in a very difficult and confused environment. A war zone. Soldiers doing their job were under fire and a number of bombs found. Evidence hasn't just 'come to light' and it is grossly unfair to prosecute someone 50 years down the line and judging them on today's standards. It is scandalous. I've no issue with holding public servants to account, but not after this length of time as i'd argue it doesn't pass a public interest test particularly when the terrorists have effectively been given immunity for crimes. It's a politically motivated witch hunt, nothing more, nothing less.
 
moonay said:
That's only two of the front bench though KDZ.
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They are the 2 calling the shots though and largely responsible for the shifting of the party. You can put Abbott and Williamson in as another 2 bad ones. I dont think Dawn Butler is that good either from some of the stuff she says. Starmer, Thornberry, Gardner and most of the rest just going along with them to keep their jobs like most of Mays front bench and would change position based on what is politically expedient depending on who's in charge.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
Well done.....you ought to know better, then.

You still have to resort to insults when losing an argument, don't you?
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You're right I do know better. Probably something to do with having an impartial, objective teacher.

I haven't lost any argument, in fact I wasnt in the conversation, but I can see through the biased shit you pedal.
 
KDZ, I couldn't agree more. Corbyn struggles cos he needs a few more fawning supporters alongside him.

Benn and Starmer have come out with enormous credit the last few weeks. Thornberry, Kendall, Cooper etc will never be quit when they think something needs to be said.

(Abbott and Gardiner are arsewipes)

The real Marxist push is from outside the PLP.
 
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