Dreaming of McAuley
Vital Squad Member
Probably due to where the foul happened
‘the law has now changed so that players committing accidental fouls, that deny a goal-scoring opportunity, are not automatically sent off, but cautioned instead.‘
Match Thread: Swindon Town v Lincoln City
- Thread starter Jules
- Start date
‘the law has now changed so that players committing accidental fouls, that deny a goal-scoring opportunity, are not automatically sent off, but cautioned instead.‘
If I see the penalty 100 times I will still think it’s SOFT, because it has “won” by attacker. No deliberate foul was made. 90% of refs would give it, but that does n’t stop it being SOFT.
We have already had some similar SOFT penalties this season. I imagine if the situation had been reversed you would have been incensed had it not been given. I would have thought we had not managed to con the referee.
I agree you are in the large majority,that are happy to go with the tv pundit consensus (almost exclusively former centre forwards), that it is perfectly okay to fall over at any physical contact you can create, in the hope of being awarded a penalty. I have just been watching Match of the Day, where this happened on numerous occasions. Jamie Vardy even fell over with no one within a yard of him.
It was briefly mentioned and they moved on. No one is bothered. The tv agenda is, its great this happens because it gives us more goals and “incidents” to discuss. They in effect say “long may it continue”.
For me this does n’t alter the reality, that drawing/conning referees into penalties is rife. The penalty yesterday was in that category, so for me was SOFT and would have been the same had we been the recipient of the penalty.
Now to Ben Toner - (I admit I have only seen the tv footage).
Irrespective of the penalty, he managed to have the profound effect on the outcome of the match, not the players. He managed to find 2 minor incidents , neither of which happened while the ball was even in play, which had a much more significant impact on the match, than anything the players did, while the ball was in play.
If the purpose of a referee is to be the main influence on the outcome of the game, he is a magnificent referee.
If the purpose of the referee is to ensure a fair contest between the two sides, then he is one of the worst in League 2.
imp73
Vital Squad Member
Totally irrelevant if it was deliberate or not. That is a bizarre criteria to decide if a penalty is soft or not. Frecklington clipped his ankle forcing the attacker to fall over.. and the contact led Frecklington to also end up on the floor.
Brendan Bradley
Vital Squad Member
I'm not sure what's still to be gained by continually going over this ground but while I appreciate that Chimpimp recognises 90% of refs would give that penalty (I think it would be 100%, and I doubt you'll find a neutral fan who wouldn't agree either) and others obviously hold the same opinion, Law 12 doesn't say anything about a foul being "deliberate".
Deliberate only applies to handling the ball.
If you're "careless" or "reckless" and impede an opponent it's a foul. There's no question Frecklington tripped the forward. It was totally different from the Baines/Anderson clash last week which was outright fakery we often see and the ref rightly waved that away.
With regards to the Andrade incident, on ifollow it happened off camera. Having seen the actual highlights it's clear that the Swindon player had a go at Andrade first and he retaliated. Unfortunately, the officials only saw the retaliation, so the ref correctly gave what was seen. They don't have eyes everywhere.
It was drummed into me when I was a schoolboy, and that was a VERY long time ago, that you don't retaliate for this very reason as it's usually the retaliator who gets seen. Basic stuff.
lindumimp
Vital Football Hero
To be fair to him he is consistently poor, you know what you are going to get when he is in charge!
Not mate Shackell was covering, he wasn’t clearly through on goal
D
Deleted member 10554
Guest
They do have a linesman, and a fourth official, who was literally five yards away and whose duties are informing the referee of incidents he may not have seen. If you re-watch the incident, Toner is focused on Andrade falling over after the push from behind, and does nothing. His focus then moves with the ball, and away from Andrade, and only after Andrade's sissy stamp does his attention turn back to him.
That suggests to me that Toner was notified and did not see it himself.
If he was notified, he was given one side of the story. If he did see it, he ignored half of the story.
I'm not saying Andrade shouldn't have been sent off because he should, but the Swindon player escaped unscathed and the officials allowed that to happen. The more I watch this game the more I am stunned at the ineptitude of the officials.
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Dreaming of McAuley
Vital Squad Member
I don’t think they’re helped by the laws. We can’t even agree on what a decision should be with multiple angles and slow motion replays
Ruskingtony
Vital Squad Member
With regard to yesterdays game, with the exception of Andrade and Shacks ,everybody was an hero. I have only seen the highlights but reading comments on here it seems that Bozzie and Harry were two of the standout players.
I think we should all thank Peterborough for their stupidity in letting us have them for, i am led to beleive, a very modest fee.
Thanks!
I think we should all thank Peterborough for their stupidity in letting us have them for, i am led to beleive, a very modest fee.
Thanks!
Brendan Bradley
Vital Squad Member
Graeme, you're not seriously suggesting that the ref and/or 4th official saw the whole incident and decided to ignore the Swindon player's part in it for some reason that I can't work out?
They made the decisions based on what they saw or what they believed they saw. Obviously, that's often not the full story. In any game. Anywhere.
D
Deleted member 10554
Guest
I'm saying they did ignore it, or at least discounted it. I have no idea why, like you. But the facts of what happened speak for themselves in the footage.
Brendan Bradley
Vital Squad Member
Swindon doesn't have VAR
D
Deleted member 10554
Guest
They didn't need it.
D
Deleted member 10554
Guest
Right, the full match is up on iFollow and it's apparent why there's lots of differing opinion on Shackell's red.
The Lincs Radio coverage missed the lead up to Shackell's second yellow. Hortin says it's a straight red - absolutely wrong. He completely misses the yellow given and then the delay in the referee's red card. It takes about six minutes for Hortin to "clarify", although he still doesn't know. That's really poor commentating.
Added to this iFollow also misses the incident, zooming in on Doughty running back then bizarrely zooming on the scoreboard, before briefly catching Shackell and the ref close together, with the ref aiming a pointy finger at Shackell. It only recovers properly to catch the red card being given, but shows the ref has walked away and has to turn back to issue it.
Those at the game saw what really happened. Shackell speaks to the ref after the penalty, and is shown a yellow. The conversation does not look heated. The referee then puts the card away and - crucially - walks away. Then a few seconds later he has a flash of realisation that he's already booked Shackell in the first half, turns round, walks back to Shackell, and shows the red.
Hope that clears it up.
Edit: more info.
The Lincs Radio coverage missed the lead up to Shackell's second yellow. Hortin says it's a straight red - absolutely wrong. He completely misses the yellow given and then the delay in the referee's red card. It takes about six minutes for Hortin to "clarify", although he still doesn't know. That's really poor commentating.
Added to this iFollow also misses the incident, zooming in on Doughty running back then bizarrely zooming on the scoreboard, before briefly catching Shackell and the ref close together, with the ref aiming a pointy finger at Shackell. It only recovers properly to catch the red card being given, but shows the ref has walked away and has to turn back to issue it.
Those at the game saw what really happened. Shackell speaks to the ref after the penalty, and is shown a yellow. The conversation does not look heated. The referee then puts the card away and - crucially - walks away. Then a few seconds later he has a flash of realisation that he's already booked Shackell in the first half, turns round, walks back to Shackell, and shows the red.
Hope that clears it up.
Edit: more info.
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Norfolk Imp
Vital 1st Team Regular
A few happy Imps yesterday ?
️????View attachment 30809A few happy Imps yesterday ?
Croozey
Vital 1st Team Regular
Me Sir no Sir!?Redimps1
Lots of armchair fans being very unfair on Andrade. It’s so easy to sit and watch a game on television and give an opinion just by the view from the particular camera angle. I had a very good view of it live and like it or not it was a very harsh sending off.
When Toff played the ball up the line the defender was all over Bruno, 9 times out of 10 a free kick would have been given. As both players went to get up the defender appeared to stand on Bruno’s calf and Bruno got up made up 2 yards and clipped the back of his ankle. It was handbags of the soft variety and a booking each would have been ample punishment. Bruno gave Toner the chance to send him off and Toner never turns down the opportunity to deliver a red . I think the Swindon management had a good view of the incident too and knew their lad was guilty and lucky and pretty sure he was subbed off at half time as a result.
When Toff played the ball up the line the defender was all over Bruno, 9 times out of 10 a free kick would have been given. As both players went to get up the defender appeared to stand on Bruno’s calf and Bruno got up made up 2 yards and clipped the back of his ankle. It was handbags of the soft variety and a booking each would have been ample punishment. Bruno gave Toner the chance to send him off and Toner never turns down the opportunity to deliver a red . I think the Swindon management had a good view of the incident too and knew their lad was guilty and lucky and pretty sure he was subbed off at half time as a result.
Have to say i didnt have that definite view from the away side however it was noticeable that the home bench werent that " excited" as they normally are in these cases nearly in front of them!
