EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 67 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

valenciagill said:
' But I find it strange that the EU is pushing it's nose into internal issues within member states, but was conspicuously silent when Spanish Guardia Civil were beating up Grannies in the Catalonia dispute '

The Policia Nacional dealt with things in Catalonia. They are responsible for crowds and civil disorder (riot police). These police are only found in cities with over 50k population.
Guardia Civil are responsible for policing elections (amongst other things like traffic , and borders) and were involved in raids to seize ballot boxes and papers.

Not having a pop , just letting you know the score over here
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Great explanation, Vaggy. Now, please explain what a populist party is
 
mehmets_curlies said:
Great explanation, Vaggy. Now, please explain what a populist party is
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'Right-wing populism is a political ideology which combines right-wing politics and populist rhetoric and themes. The rhetoric often consists of anti-elitist sentiments, opposition to the system and speaking for the common people. In Europe, right-wing populism is an expression used to describe groups, politicians and political parties generally known for their opposition to immigration'

p.s. Wikipedia.
 
Funny, and there was I thinking a populist party is one that tells people what they want to hear, and panders to their prejudices when in fact none of it is based on truth and evidence. It may not be in the definition but it’s what all of them do. They also have a tendency to blame the ‘elite’ when they are demonstrably part of the self same elite.
 
Therealwaldo said:
Funny, and there was I thinking a populist party is one that tells people what they want to hear, and panders to their prejudices when in fact none of it is based on truth and evidence.
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Or one that IS based on truth and evidence, but that truth is uncomfortable to the ruling elite.
 
Switching the play, what was missing from the referendum was INFORMED consent. (Yeah yeah the hardliners all knew exactly what they were signing up for. But the majority without whom the result would havd been different voted blindly and therefore naively).

A vote to leave got the solicitor lined up, the searches done and the survey complete, but was always subject to contract. When negotiation on the details of that have been finalised, the people should be given their final say since Parliament (representative democracy) can't agree amongst themselves.
 
ThreeSixes said:
Or one that IS based on truth and evidence, but that truth is uncomfortable to the ruling elite.
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People like you and vaggy are seriously deluded if you think this "populist" onsense will have any impact on the ruling elite. Even if it became a movement with any force, and took power, you would just have a different ruling elite and they would still lie and cheat. That scumbag of a potus is often cited as a shining beacon in the populist world. Do you serously think he is honest, or wants to attack the ruling elite (and I don't mean the politicians), most of whom are his peers and friends? Dream on
 
Don't vote - the Government might get in !

The best job in the world must be being in opposition.
You don't have to do anything, all you have to do is say what you would do if you got in power.
Then, if you get in power, you're bollaxed.

Look what has happened in Spain with the new Government that took over from Rajoy.
They have had to wind back on virtually all of their policies.
 
Populist is becoming a tricky word. It always had the idea that the masses are mugs and mean mugs at that baked into it. In a more deferential era, our socialist betters could use it just as comfortably as our conservative betters could about nasty little dictators and their appeal. In our present enlightened times, however, when all opinions are judged to to be, if not equally valid, then equally authentic, it does not spend quite so well and sounds elitist/anti-democratic. I don't like it. It's used by everyone to close down arguments and rule them out of court on issues ranging from controlling immigration to increasing taxation on the rich.
 
Straightbat said:
Switching the play, what was missing from the referendum was INFORMED consent. (Yeah yeah the hardliners all knew exactly what they were signing up for. But the majority without whom the result would havd been different voted blindly and therefore naively).
.
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Yet again someone claiming that Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for.

"Leaving" the EU is pretty clear.
No one should be surprised that "Leave" meant:
- Leaving the EU's institutions
- Leaving EU law behind (or at least being free to amend it)
- Leaving the EU's supreme court behind
- Not paying the EU money

If one believed all the Remain rhetoric about Leave(rs) like:
- "pulling up the drawbridge"
- "Little Englanders"
.... then surely Remainers should be surprised at how much co-operation Leavers are willing to support ? (e.g. security, policing, nuclear energy, space,

In short, the idea thea Leave voters thought that Leave did not really mean "leave" is risible.

Quite a few EU critics know why they voted Remain - because of Project Fear.

Then there is a small group of hard-line Remainers who actively want our laws made by foreign bureaucrats or politicians (sadly in positions of power) - but (mostly) try to hide that.

That leaves "soft" Remainers as being the voters most likely not not to know what they were voting for.
 
Tarian said:
Yet again someone claiming that Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for.

"Leaving" the EU is pretty clear.
No one should be surprised that "Leave" meant:
- Leaving the EU's institutions
- Leaving EU law behind (or at least being free to amend it)
- Leaving the EU's supreme court behind
- Not paying the EU money

If one believed all the Remain rhetoric about Leave(rs) like:
- "pulling up the drawbridge"
- "Little Englanders"
.... then surely Remainers should be surprised at how much co-operation Leavers are willing to support ? (e.g. security, policing, nuclear energy, space,

In short, the idea thea Leave voters thought that Leave did not really mean "leave" is risible.

Quite a few EU critics know why they voted Remain - because of Project Fear.

Then there is a small group of hard-line Remainers who actively want our laws made by foreign bureaucrats or politicians (sadly in positions of power) - but (mostly) try to hide that.

That leaves "soft" Remainers as being the voters most likely not not to know what they were voting for.
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So, your idea of Leave means a no-deal, transitional arrangements or an ongoing deal that allows us to trade relatively easily with the EU?
 
Tarian said:
Yet again someone claiming that Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for.

"Leaving" the EU is pretty clear.
No one should be surprised that "Leave" meant:
- Leaving the EU's institutions
- Leaving EU law behind (or at least being free to amend it)
- Leaving the EU's supreme court behind
- Not paying the EU money

If one believed all the Remain rhetoric about Leave(rs) like:
- "pulling up the drawbridge"
- "Little Englanders"
.... then surely Remainers should be surprised at how much co-operation Leavers are willing to support ? (e.g. security, policing, nuclear energy, space,

In short, the idea thea Leave voters thought that Leave did not really mean "leave" is risible.

Quite a few EU critics know why they voted Remain - because of Project Fear.

Then there is a small group of hard-line Remainers who actively want our laws made by foreign bureaucrats or politicians (sadly in positions of power) - but (mostly) try to hide that.

That leaves "soft" Remainers as being the voters most likely not not to know what they were voting for.
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There was "project fear" on both sides, or did you not see Farage's poster? One man's "project fear" is another man's reality check. And, FFS, how many more pigeon holes need to be created with all this bollox? "Soft remainers"?Seriously? Are there a hard, semi hard, mid and semi soft remainers too?
 
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