Post Brexit (n/g)

[jogills]

Ah okay, thought you were going to say you can but it's expensive.

Well, you won't like this but it's the EU who are to blame. They don't want to offer a trade agreement with the UK because they can only keep their members through rule of fear. If they offer the UK a trade agreement then other countries will decide to leave and get a free trade agreement.

Basically free trade is the main benefit of the EU but you must accept hundreds of downsides.

You won't like this but it was all entirely predictable once we pursued and promised the impossible. Politics is the art of the possible, international agreements are just that agreements arrived at by negotiation. We thought we could impose our will and a fantasy on multiple other countries.

Reality is dawning for many and there will be growing calls for more sensible arrangements. I remain optimistic that a small minority of obsessives will not prevent me from buying bicycle parts forever.

 

[PuB]

You won't like this but it was all entirely predictable once we pursued and promised the impossible. Politics is the art of the possible, international agreements are just that agreements arrived at by negotiation. We thought we could impose our will and a fantasy on multiple other countries.

Reality is dawning for many and there will be growing calls for more sensible arrangements. I remain optimistic that a small minority of obsessives will not prevent me from buying bicycle parts forever.

It’s the ECHR stopping you from buying bicycle parts…

 

[Gills77]

You won't like this but it was all entirely predictable once we pursued and promised the impossible. Politics is the art of the possible, international agreements are just that agreements arrived at by negotiation. We thought we could impose our will and a fantasy on multiple other countries.

Reality is dawning for many and there will be growing calls for more sensible arrangements. I remain optimistic that a small minority of obsessives will not prevent me from buying bicycle parts forever.

Why won't I like that? I wasn't surprised in the slightest the EU acted pathetic.

However, a country's ability to control its own affairs (including borders) is more important than anything else.

I would do Brexit 100x over. The only thing I would change is the Civil Service and politicians who refused to implement it properly, which is why it's been suboptimal.

How would the UK get a good deal when the Lib Dems were briefing EU negotiators/politicians?

 

[Gills77]

It’s the ECHR stopping you from buying bicycle parts…

Wow, you honestly didn't understand my point about ECHR and deportations?

That explains a few things....

 

[jogills]

Why won't I like that? I wasn't surprised in the slightest the EU acted pathetic.

However, a country's ability to control its own affairs (including borders) is more important than anything else.

I would do Brexit 100x over. The only thing I would change is the Civil Service and politicians who refused to implement it properly, which is why it's been suboptimal.

How would the UK get a good deal when the Lib Dems were briefing EU negotiators/politicians?

We aren't controlling our borders. Have you not noticed? That is down to our government's failure and a belief in some circles that the subject can be exploited politically.

I repeat that government is the art of the possible and an 80 seat majority and a willingness to change laws and conventions and to refuse compromise has tested the possible to destruction. This is it, as good as it gets for the ultras. The rest of us have had enough.

You may blame who you wish but this suboptimal outcome is the direct outcome of absurd expectations, false prospectus and incompetence. I voted remain without any very strong investment but I'd vote 100X to clear up this shitshow.

We are currently waving through plants and food without checks to avoid bad publicity, some control. I dare say all the failures of Brexit will soon be laid at the door of the incoming government. What is pathetic is the failure of the the perpetrators of this nonsense to take any responsibility for it

 

[Vambogills]

Why won't I like that? I wasn't surprised in the slightest the EU acted pathetic.

However, a country's ability to control its own affairs (including borders) is more important than anything else.

I would do Brexit 100x over. The only thing I would change is the Civil Service and politicians who refused to implement it properly, which is why it's been suboptimal.

How would the UK get a good deal when the Lib Dems were briefing EU negotiators/politicians?

Aah!
Like other ardent brexiteers I know you have finally said ' politicians who refused to implement 'it' properly'.
Please accept that there was NO universal agreement of what 'it' was or meant.
Everyone who voted to leave expected a different flavour of what extracting ourselves from the EU might look like.
'It' was not clear. 'It' was never total migration control. It was never cheaper food. 'It' was never better trade opportunities or workers rights.
The 'it' you have in your head is only your perception of what you thought you were being promised.
I'm sorry you are not happy at the fudged efforts that an ever changing set of ministers have tried to deliver but they boxed themselves into a corner ages ago.
You may be pi$$ed off, but, believe me, those of us who predicted a chaos even before the referendum are considerably more pi$$ed off.
Hopefully when the remaining dregs of the Tory party are booted out at the next election someone with a vision will come in and rescue some sort of solution that both of us can get behind.

 

[Gills 58]

Wow, you honestly didn't understand my point about ECHR and deportations?

That explains a few things....

He was taking the p#ss. Didn't you realise that?

Ps. For clarification, taking the p#ss out of people who want us to leave the ECHR. A scary prospect from simpletons (to put it kindly) who don't know what they are talking about.

 

[nibbles]

He was taking the p#ss.

If he was taking the piss it must mean Gills77 was correct about something. Maybe.

 

[jokerman]

Political people all claim such differences between them but they often argue in the same way. Brexit not properly implemented; the current mess does not count (the Right). Socialism never properly implemented; the USSR does not count (the Left).

I supported Brexit. Still do. Not so we can break free and prosper on our own. That is a fantasy, but because the EU is a dopey and demoralizing way of doing things. Economically, we picked a terrible time to leave, as it turned out. Politically and geopolitically, the EU is an obstacle to the challenges of the moment and those challenges will present a big test of its social democratic model. The EU was very fortunate we made a pig's breakfast of our departure (see what I did there?). We gave it a breathing space, but the stresses and strains are reappearing and sometimes in ways which are far more unattractive than anything we've seen here.

 

[MedwayModernist]

I would do Brexit 100x over. The only thing I would change is the Civil Service and politicians who refused to implement it properly, which is why it's been suboptimal.

I think you'll find I do have a girlfriend actually, she just goes to a different school.

 

[Gills77]

We aren't controlling our borders. Have you not noticed? That is down to our government's failure and a belief in some circles that the subject can be exploited politically.

Isn't it interesting (and repetitive) how many times The Left claim people with different opinions must only hold them because someone else manipulated them?

Brexit, immigration.... it's always the same excuse. The Russians/politicians/Facebook/media made them think it.

 

[Gills77]

The planet "we agreed to immigration rules so we accepted who could come and go". That is controlling our borders.

Agreeing to a rule which explicitly states you cannot 100% control something does not mean you 100% control it.

That's rather obvious.

I suggest you look up the definition of "control".

Keep scraping.

 

[nibbles]

Agreeing to a rule which explicitly states you cannot 100% control something does not mean you 100% control it.

That's rather obvious.

I suggest you look up the definition of "control".

Keep scraping.

How’s that 100% control working out for you?

 

[Gills77]

Yeh, my cricket club rules by fear. If you don't join it you can't play for them. disgusting behaviour. People who aren't members should have the same rights as those who are (and pay their membership fees).

Does your cricket club play matches against other teams?

Does the other team pay your club?

 

[Gills77]

How’s that 100% control working out for you?

Where did I say we have 100% control?

 

[Vambogills]

Isn't it interesting (and repetitive) how many times The Left claim people with different opinions must only hold them because someone else manipulated them?

Brexit, immigration.... it's always the same excuse. The Russians/politicians/Facebook/media made them think it.

Brexit was definately never left v right. Neither is immigration. They are both enormous issues with serious consequences if not handled properly.
You don't need a red, yellow, green or blue rosette to make judgement unless you personally get something from doing so. It just so happens that Blair bungled immigration during his time in office and May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak have bungled immigration and Brexit over the 14 years they have been in power.

 

[Gills77]

Brexit was definately never left v right. Neither is immigration. They are both enormous issues with serious consequences if not handled properly.
You don't need a red, yellow, green or blue rosette to make judgement unless you personally get something from doing so. It just so happens that Blair bungled immigration during his time in office and May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak have bungled immigration and Brexit over the 14 years they have been in power.

You're kinda right and kinda not.

Brexit was about working class people having their lives ruined because of far-right (economically) people using uncontrolled immigration to make money. Import as many cheap workers as possible, let them live and flood deprived towns, ruin their infrastructure so long as it gives you cheaper wages and you can charge higher rent.

The current vocal Remainers are usually left-wing and have an ideological obsession with the EU. You don't paint the EU flag on your face and "we love EU" because you think the EU represents economic opportunities.

 

[Gills 58]

Does your cricket club play matches against other teams?

Does the other team pay your club?

That is moronic. They pay to play for their clubs. Are you trying to be funny?

 

[PuB]

You're kinda right and kinda not.

Brexit was about working class people having their lives ruined because of far-right (economically) people using uncontrolled immigration to make money. Import as many cheap workers as possible, let them live and flood deprived towns, ruin their infrastructure so long as it gives you cheaper wages and you can charge higher rent.

The current vocal Remainers are usually left-wing and have an ideological obsession with the EU. You don't paint the EU flag on your face and "we love EU" because you think the EU represents economic opportunities.

Nope. Brexit was people sticking two fingers up at the establishment and believing plain lies from the out campaign. Even Boris didn’t want to actually win and had no plan of what to do after (as we saw), and it turns out none of the rest of them did either.

Nothing to do with class even if you want to paint it that way. I’m not going to bother with your left-wing part because I really really can’t be bothered. But, I’ll remind you of ‘project fear’ and the reality of the actual situation we find ourselves in now.

 

[nibbles]

The current vocal Remainers are usually left-wing and have an ideological obsession with the EU. You don't paint the EU flag on your face and "we love EU" because you think the EU represents economic opportunities.

What proportion of people that voted to remain and still believe that to be the case do you think have ever painted an EU flag on their face?

If you think you’re having a conversation with those sorts any time someone challenges the success of Brexit it’s no wonder you come across as being so entrenched and obtuse.