Youth team shake up??

[Cookiejar]

Have I missed anyome or is Jack Tucker the last youth product to come through and have a run of games?

I feel this is the area if the Galinsons get it right we could be a force. Huge county, huge population and not a snoff of a foest team appearmce for 2 or 3 seasons other than Tucker?

We need to invest here long term and look at what Colchester, Crewe and others are doing to get these through.

I get it the B team might be folding but lets look below this and the struxture and coaches right to bring people through

 

[NWBluesFan]

In our current state, a big investment in the youth set up just isn't worth it.

The chances of anyone of a good enough quality staying at Gillingham to make it financially viable are virtually nil. The fees bigger academies have to play to 'transfer registrations' (i.e. poach) are absolutely derisory.

Smartest thing Gills can do cherry pick players who leave other, bigger academies (age 16+) and get known for giving those young players a chance. If even one hits, it would be worth a lot more to us.

Academy football is a scandal.

 

[GillsBluenose]

I think Keith Millen is in charge of our youth set up at the moment.

Judging by the last two or three decades he may well end up with a record of a handful of first team appearances spread around half a dozen players - Gbode has started one game, Gerald Sithole started a few I think, likewise Chambers, Lintott and Akehurst.

Apart from Jack Tucker, none of them has gone on to establish themselves.

Shaking it up in a good way would take serious investment which could probably be better used towards sorting out our summer recruitment at the present time.

 

[JoeScout]

As some on here know I do some Academy scouting for Norwich, which location-wise is in a similar position to Gills being an outlier. There are hundreds of talented boys at every age group within our remit (1 hour 15 mins travel time for the young'uns) but you need a LOT of eyes to be able to physically get a chance to see them.

For example the area I cover is Cambridgeshire, and I only scout Under 7's at the moment. There are currently 52 under 7's sides operating just in the Cambridge region, so just getting to see all of them has taken me up until April, and that's before you factor in all of the other scoutable regions - Norwich itself, Suffolk, King's Lynn, Ely - that's a lot of manpower to cover all those regions, and that would only be for one age group! Kent is a huge county, just covering the Medway leagues would be hard enough before you even think about looking elsewhere in the county.

It does get easier the older they get though - you start to know which teams are the better ones, and good players start to make a name for themselves over the years, but any genuinely good ones tend to get snapped up right at the start.

As a club we just don't have the kind of set up required to fulfil mass scouting that Category 1 academies are able to do, and as NW says even if we did manage to find a superstar in Rainham they'd be off to Arsenal for £20 and a Mars Bar at 13 thanks to the FFFP regulations which have basically shafted lower league academies for the forseeable future.

The financial input required to get us to be a Cat 1 Academy frankly isn't worth it to anyone firmly outside the Premier League. Again agreeing with NW, the best thing to do is to be savvy enough to scout around the pre-existing academies, let them do the initial groundwork and then pick off players they deem not good enough but we can maybe work with, as we have with the likes of Jarvis and Dack in the past.

 

[chris who]

About 50% of youth funds are paid centrally so that makes it more cost affective than it might appear. Addressing any problems in youth development is always a long term project.It is not like turning on a switch. I can see the Galinson's addressing youth development but it would not be top of the list currently. They may well have tried a fairly quick fix with the B team .But from my limited observations our youth projects are a long way from being able to compete competitively with the likes of Crewe and Ipswich for example. To get real results from a youth development programme will take a decade or more. So even if a investment has already been put in the pipeline it will take many years to pay dividends.

 

[GillsBluenose]

One thing I have always wondered is how do you assess prospects that could end up being strong, tall centre backs or target men at under 7 level?

Even when I left school at 16, I was 5 ft 7 ins (in old money) but shot up to 6ft 1 in a growth spurt within two years. I was still skinny for another 4 years and played in goal but eventually ended up being a strong tackling, good in the air, but slow centre half at village level.

I get it that you can perhaps assess a player at 7 years old that will have pace, good close control or twinkle toes but also you can sort of see why so many clubs turned down Steve Bruce at youth level before he found one to take him on at the other end of the country.

Not really an exact science as far as I can see.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

One thing I have always wondered is how do you assess prospects that could end up being strong, tall centre backs or target men at under 7 level?

I think the important thing is if they are showing talent in relation to other players their age. A player's position when they are 7 is not necessary the one they will be playing in at 17 years old. So for example you could train someone to play at centreback but if he doesn't get a height spurt and become 6 foot plus, then they could convert to playing as a ball winning defensive midfielder or a fullback where the skill set will be similar.

Can't recall who it was on the radio but they said it was common practice at youth level to get the kids to play in every position as not only does it mean the player get a more rounded education from doing so, but sometimes a player might join initially as a defender but suddenly develops a nack of scoring goals and becomes a prolific striker.

 

[GillsBluenose]

I think the important thing is if they are showing talent in relation to other players their age. A player's position when they are 7 is not necessary the one they will be playing in at 17 years old. So for example you could train someone to play at centreback but if he doesn't get a height spurt and become 6 foot plus, then they could convert to playing as a ball winning defensive midfielder or a fullback where the skill set will be similar.

Can't recall who it was on the radio but they said it was common practice at youth level to get the kids to play in every position as not only does it mean the player get a more rounded education from doing so, but sometimes a player might join initially as a defender but suddenly develops a nack of scoring goals and becomes a prolific striker.

Makes sense. I suppose Steve Bruce is actually an example as he started as a midfield player, I believe.

 

[JoeScout]

Can't recall who it was on the radio but they said it was common practice at youth level to get the kids to play in every position as not only does it mean the player get a more rounded education from doing so, but sometimes a player might join initially as a defender but suddenly develops a nack of scoring goals and becomes a prolific striker.

Exactly this - at Norwich no-one really has a set position bar the goalkeepers, and even then there are a couple of age groups who don't have an actual keeper on their squad so they take it in turns. Playing all over the place will do them good eventually.

In terms of the physical profile question from Bluenose, you're correct in saying it absolutely isn't an exact science and I wondered exactly the same when I first started. The answer is actually quite simplistic - look at the parents! Very little else to go on at that age. Indeed nothing about scouting kids that young is exact at all - I won't know for at least 10-15 years if any of the boys I find will 'make it'.

 

[AbsoluteCarnage]

The answer is actually quite simplistic - look at the parents! Very little else to go on at that age.

How does that work with so many step-parents around these days?
I've heard it said a boy will always be taller than his mother but that's not much to go on, considering I believe the average woman is about 1.65m and very few footballers are anywhere near that small.

 

[NWBluesFan]

...So even if a investment has already been put in the pipeline it will take many years to pay dividends.

True.

But the problem is it is more likely not to pay off at all. System is set up to shaft smaller academies at the expense of the bigger ones.

It's just a money pit for Gills and not worth it.

 

[chris who]

It certainly appears to be a problem at Gills.Since Steve Bruce how many powerful centre backs or indeed centre forwards have been produced by Gillingham fc?
I am only counting players who have gone on to play regularly at league.
I don't include players like Jack Tucker who while he plays that position he hasn't really got a powerful frame in my opinion.

 

[SE1_Gills]

How does that work with so many step-parents around these days?
I've heard it said a boy will always be taller than his mother but that's not much to go on, considering I believe the average woman is about 1.65m and very few footballers are anywhere near that small.

My mum is 5ft 4, thankfully I'm 6ft

 

[JoeScout]

How does that work with so many step-parents around these days?
I've heard it said a boy will always be taller than his mother but that's not much to go on, considering I believe the average woman is about 1.65m and very few footballers are anywhere near that small.

Like I say it's nowhere near an exact science, but there's honestly very little you can do in terms of physical prediction other than see where they came from. It's not the be all and end all for a player anyway, but someone with standout physical attributes will always get given chances even if technically they're as much a footballer as I am.

You see it all the time with quick players - they stand out and are an asset all through the youth setups, look exciting and ready for the men's game and then you realise that they can't actually play football very well and playing against people who can cope with their speed really quite easily turns out quite embarrassingly for all involved. Dan James at Leeds is a good example.