Who'd own a football club...!? | Vital Football

Who'd own a football club...!?

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One of Villa's previous owners, Randy Lerner lost in the region of $450 when he was forced to sell up and get out as outside consultants reckoned that if he didn't he'd probably lose the same again before he could (if ever) get Villa back into the PL. It seems that they knew what they were talking about.

Then came Tony Xia - no one seems to know exactly how much he lost, but it looks to be close to £150-200 mill, or more, so badly did it screw his cashflow for his main businesses that in the end Villa couldn't even pay a £4.1 million tax bill.

Then comes their current owners, another two American Billionaires Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens.

They have just had to put in another £17 mill in to keep the club afloat, which now means they too are now in for over £260 mill. A report I've just read seems to indicate they they may be forced to continue to fund the club on this basis for sometime to come.

Last summer the club sold the stadium to the two club owners for near £60 mill so as to avoid the PL's FFPR, and did a 'sale and leashback' - so far this sale has not been approved as the suspicion is the valuation has been artificially held down; if this is not agreed soon, chances are Villa will be heading for a breach of the FFPR rules for the financial year 2018/19; if so, come the summer a fire-sale is a huge possibility It's 2017/18 losses were over £39 mill, it's 2019/19 losses are yet to be published, but are expected to be of a similar or even greater size after their £80 mill splurge the previous year when they took over, they may if the stadium sale is agreed just squeak under the FFPR breach levels.

Villa currently lie in 17th position. If they go down the club over the last 5 seasons will have had around £1 billion pumped in with no break-even in sight (Villa fans simply don't/won't pay the ticket prices we do).

There is already talk in some quarters (although in fairness I think this is highly speculative) that these billionaires will also look to give the club away or find new investors.

If ever a club was a 'gamble' that spending big would surge them up the PL table, this is as clearest an example as you will ever see. Now that gamble looks like a fight for PL survival.

Either way this all leads to a great club that cannot self-finance and be competitive.

As great as it's history has been, can we really call them a PL club, as unless they stay up and have a huge slice of luck it's a club that will continuously make losses and will for the foreseeable future be relying on yet another set of billionaires who have more money than sense?

If it goes down this time, surely there will be no one stupid enough to save it yet again, if that's the case, just how fast could it sink down the leagues.

Villa's fanbase has been through hell and back and have lived through three potential bankruptcies, only to 'enjoy' a last second save each time. Villa have a great fanbase so I feel for their fans, but you have to wonder how long this can go on for.

The one thing for sure, if they go - there are going to be some rich pickings in their squad; and the one of course I've been begging the club to buy from four seasons ago; Grealish.

Who else should we look at if they go down?
 
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I'll move this to off-topic later, but as it does pertain what we might do, will leave it here before moving it to off-topic as it will get attention here first that it doesn't get there..
 
Must admit, I do feel for Villa. When you think back there were Spurs, Villa, Newcastle, Everton etc that probably had a similar opportunity as we entered the new millennium. OK, Villa didn't get a businessman like Levy, but they would have been just fine with a Kenwright / Moyes combo to bring them stability.

When you look closely, you see that the Facility Fees (based on TV appearances) and the Merit Payments (Prem league finishes) make it impossible for the lower teams in the Prem. Last season 20th place Huddersfield got £14m from these 2 payments whilst City at the top got £68m. So try being a club that finishes 16th for 3 or 4 consecutive seasons and feel the impact of competing with the teams in the top half. This becomes more about even staying in the Prem for a club like Villa. They are a total disadvantage just by the distribution of wealth over multiple seasons even by being in the Prem.

Despite the attraction of buying Grealish, would prefer to see Villa stay up especially if it is at the expense of another Claret and Blue club.
 
Must admit, I do feel for Villa. When you think back there were Spurs, Villa, Newcastle, Everton etc that probably had a similar opportunity as we entered the new millennium. OK, Villa didn't get a businessman like Levy, but they would have been just fine with a Kenwright / Moyes combo to bring them stability.

When you look closely, you see that the Facility Fees (based on TV appearances) and the Merit Payments (Prem league finishes) make it impossible for the lower teams in the Prem. Last season 20th place Huddersfield got £14m from these 2 payments whilst City at the top got £68m. So try being a club that finishes 16th for 3 or 4 consecutive seasons and feel the impact of competing with the teams in the top half. This becomes more about even staying in the Prem for a club like Villa. They are a total disadvantage just by the distribution of wealth over multiple seasons even by being in the Prem.

Despite the attraction of buying Grealish, would prefer to see Villa stay up especially if it is at the expense of another Claret and Blue club.


I believe Villa will need to finish in the top nine in order to generate sufficient EPL prize money/merit payments to break even (that's looking pretty unlikely now) If they fail to do so, they will be the first promoted team since Queens Park Rangers in 2014/15 to post a loss; add to that how much they spent last summer with so little coming back then despite their owners keep digging deep, they'll make a big loss - the stadium sale was clearly designed to off-set that and also to give the owners some security should they pull the plug; it's arguable that the club's grounds could easily make £200-250 mill if eventually redeveloped (whether they get planning permission whilst the club existed is another debate).

Like you, I also hope they stay up; spent a few years based in the midlands and would often get by football 'fix' watching Villa at home.

The owners need to build a new (cheaper to run ground) and need to double ticket pricing and find a secondary use for a new stadium to survive long term as a PL club.

In the meantime, I think there 2019/20 numbers would suggest a t/o of around £165-170 mill (£100 mill of PL payments and media payments) and around £20 mill of commercial payments +35-40 mill in ticket sales (but could go higher on the ticket sales because of the cup run).

But with £115 mill in wage payments and player amortisaton of around £65 mill and other otherheads of £40 mill, no profits from players sales (which may up the pressure to sell come the summer to meet FFPR) then depending on the stadium sale, losses of between £40-£70 mill could be on the cards.

That's a disaster and they may well regret spending that 130 mill on players in the summer.
 
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One of Villa's previous owners, Randy Lerner lost in the region of $450 when he was forced to sell up and get out as outside consultants reckoned that if he didn't he'd probably lose the same again before he could (if ever) get Villa back into the PL. It seems that they knew what they were talking about.

Then came Tony Xia - no one seems to know exactly how much he lost, but it looks to be close to £150-200 mill, or more, so badly did it screw his cashflow for his main businesses that in the end Villa couldn't even pay a £4.1 million tax bill.

Then comes their current owners, another two American Billionaires Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens.

They have just had to put in another £17 mill in to keep the club afloat, which now means they too are now in for over £260 mill. A report I've just read seems to indicate they they may be forced to continue to fund the club on this basis for sometime to come.

Last summer the club sold the stadium to the two club owners for near £60 mill so as to avoid the PL's FFPR, and did a 'sale and leashback' - so far this sale has not been approved as the suspicion is the valuation has been artificially held down; if this is not agreed soon, chances are Villa will be heading for a breach of the FFPR rules for the financial year 2018/19; if so, come the summer a fire-sale is a huge possibility It's 2017/18 losses were over £39 mill, it's 2019/19 losses are yet to be published, but are expected to be of a similar or even greater size after their £80 mill splurge the previous year when they took over, they may if the stadium sale is agreed just squeak under the FFPR breach levels.

Villa currently lie in 17th position. If they go down the club over the last 5 seasons will have had around £1 billion pumped in with no break-even in sight (Villa fans simply don't/won't pay the ticket prices we do).

There is already talk in some quarters (although in fairness I think this is highly speculative) that these billionaires will also look to give the club away or find new investors.

If ever a club was a 'gamble' that spending big would surge them up the PL table, this is as clearest an example as you will ever see. Now that gamble looks like a fight for PL survival.

Either way this all leads to a great club that cannot self-finance and be competitive.

As great as it's history has been, can we really call them a PL club, as unless they stay up and have a huge slice of luck it's a club that will continuously make losses and will for the foreseeable future be relying on yet another set of billionaires who have more money than sense?

If it goes down this time, surely there will be no one stupid enough to save it yet again, if that's the case, just how fast could it sink down the leagues.

Villa's fanbase has been through hell and back and have lived through three potential bankruptcies, only to 'enjoy' a last second save each time. Villa have a great fanbase so I feel for their fans, but you have to wonder how long this can go on for.

The one thing for sure, if they go - there are going to be some rich pickings in their squad; and the one of course I've been begging the club to buy from four seasons ago; Grealish.

Who else should we look at if they go down?
That’s really interesting and I guess it almost, almost, makes me forgive Levy for what he has done...but moving on to Grealish who I agree is an outstanding player and given Villa’s finances whether they stay up or not, in today’s inflated markets he must be £80-100 million and I don’t think we have that sort of money, nor would be prepared to pay the salary that other suitors would offer....which is a shame as he could be our new Danny Blanchflower, the last brilliant player we bought from them.
 
That’s really interesting and I guess it almost, almost, makes me forgive Levy for what he has done...but moving on to Grealish who I agree is an outstanding player and given Villa’s finances whether they stay up or not, in today’s inflated markets he must be £80-100 million and I don’t think we have that sort of money, nor would be prepared to pay the salary that other suitors would offer....which is a shame as he could be our new Danny Blanchflower, the last brilliant player we bought from them.

I am so frustrated at losing out on Grealish - but there is a hope; we have a great relationship with JB and I hope that come the summer he'd 'only' be in teh region of £60 mill and that is a sum - if we can get the conditons right - we can be in with shout for. Manure have Fernandez and so may not see a whole for them to fill. manCity could see their income severely restricted if the ban and fine are upheld, which leaves us fighting with Liverpool (who'd have to sell to fit him into their squad) and Chelsea, so most certainly could beat us on wages and transfer fee - our hope there is that we make forth, someone else 5th and Chelsea sliding below that!

But all iff's and but's..
 
Who’d own a football club?

Fans! That’s who should be owning them. Not billionaire oligarchs or despots.
 
Who’d own a football club?

Fans! That’s who should be owning them. Not billionaire oligarchs or despots.

I agree. In an ideal World we could see something like the 50+1 rule as applied in the Bundesliga; the problem is there their finances are supported by massive commercial sponsorship from Germany's enormous localized industrial giants; we have neither that industrial base to call upon, nor that tradition. That said, many times these same people have tried to change/modify that rule and RB Leipzig's success after taking over a small almost unknown 5th tier side and changing their name has caused and is causing the traditional German giants to demand change.

The Bundesliga can also live on lower ticket prices as it's stadiums are generally bigger and it's fixed costs (because of the massive difference in land costs/utilities etc) so much lower.

That said, I'd love to see it happen here, but replicating an ownership style that's stood for many many decades has a slim to non-existent chance here.

Our problem is transfer and hyper wage inflation caused by the oligarchs and sovereign state owned clubs, as well of course new Billionaire owners that seem almost endlessly willing to spend money like water and to end up as mere millionaires before they realise they too are heading for bankruptcy!

That overspending by plutocrat-owned clubs in pursuit of glory creates what economists call “externalities”. It inflates the average price of players and forces all clubs to spend more to compete in the market for the talent. Such structural overspending eats into the potential profits of all the clubs in the league, much to the annoyance of the American-Billionaire owners. That’s why these US-owned clubs were in favour of pan-European rules to peg clubs’ spending to their revenues.
Yet those rules have now been watered down to almost not mattering. And the overspending doesn’t seem likely to end, even with an imminent £8bn windfall to the Premier League from broadcasters over the next three seasons.

This never ending over-spending by smart non-football people is both baffling and amusing; but ultimately it's the fans of the clubs that implode (as most do) who get to suffer the most as their clubs slide down the leagues, some never to recover, some to take decades to bounce back and only the odd one or two that finally get to a stage where they can break even...
 
The manager , only last week , was discussing Jack Grealish and the continued reports of him leaving the club . He was trying to put fans fears of losing him , to bed . He actually said , we have two guys here with loads of money and we don’t need to sell . Everyone wants him to stay and I can’t see us losing him . Huh !
in wonder if he has seen this .
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Robbie Jay Barratt - AMA/Getty Images

Dean Smith: Aston Villa Want to Keep Jack Grealish Amid Manchester United Links

JAMES DUDKO
FEBRUARY 16, 2020

Jack Grealish may be drawing admiring glances from Manchester United, but Aston Villa boss Dean Smith wants the player to stay in the Midlands beyond this season.
Smith outlined how Villa can keep hold of their star man, per Neil Moxley of the Sunday People (h/t Mirror):
"We've got two magnificent owners who want this club to be successful. They have got an awful lot of money which they’ve earned through their hard work in their businesses.
"They know that if you want to be a successful team you have to keep your best players. They will be working very hard to make sure our best players stop at this football club. That's the best answer I can give about Jack
."
 
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After an answer like that; he knows what the owners know, FFPR are going to screw them over.

They now have to pray they stay up and that their sale and leaseback of the stadium is approved, if it isn't, sadly, they're sunk.