Where did it all go wrong ? | Page 3 | Vital Football

Where did it all go wrong ?

One of the key questions for me is will we try, as indicated during the post Brad takeover period, to develop our own young talent? Or perhaps this will turn out to be another busted flush?
 
When we sacked Sir Keith
wxgill said:
Apart from the poor striker recruitment i think the midfield bar Coleman, have been totally forgetable.

Why cant Williams play 90 minutes? I also think he's not delivered what he should of, along with Lapslie, Dieng, Clarke and Mahoney.
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I think the midfield has been THE main issue. Why? If you look at that set of players (and Jeffries), I can't see a formation that suits any combination. Pulis' first team didn't exactly bang in the goals nor were the midfield a ball playing collective (barring O'Connor and Mickelwhite). The main strength in the midfield was physicality. Imagine a combo of Ratcliffe, Martin and Neil Smith in front of Ehmer/Masterson/Ogie? A midfield similar to that and we would have easily made the play offs, even without scoring a wad of goals.
 
mehmets_curlies said:
When we sacked Sir Keith
I think the midfield has been THE main issue. Why? If you look at that set of players (and Jeffries), I can't see a formation that suits any combination. Pulis' first team didn't exactly bang in the goals nor were the midfield a ball playing collective (barring O'Connor and Mickelwhite). The main strength in the midfield was physicality. Imagine a combo of Ratcliffe, Martin and Neil Smith in front of Ehmer/Masterson/Ogie? A midfield similar to that and we would have easily made the play offs, even without scoring a wad of goals.
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Not sure, as we’d have ended every game with eight men!
 
Speculating here of course but I guess we signed a load of players on top money to avoid relegation in Jan '23 with a bonus for keeping us up.

Been on the beach since. Wage thieves.

No character in the side.

Stuck with a load of these losers and wasters for another season as they seem to have 2+ years contracts unfortunately. Hence I'm not hopeful for next season as SC will be forced to keep them and can't bring in as many new players as he needs. Don't see how he can get a tune out of these people next season as he certainly hasn't this season

Yes, doom and gloom.

Desperate to be wrong.

Badly need a Dave Martin type player at this level.
 
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Gills 58 said:
Speculating here of course but I guess we signed a load of players on top money to avoid relegation in Jan '23 with a bonus for keeping us up.

Been on the beach since. Wage thieves.

No character in the side.

Stuck with a load of these losers and wasters for another season as they seem to have 2+ years contracts unfortunately. Hence I'm not hopeful for next season as SC will be forced to keep them and can't bring in as many new players as he needs. Don't see how he can get a tune out if these people next season as he certainly hasn't this season

Yes, doom and gloom.

Desperate to be wrong.

Badly need a Dave Martin type player at this level.
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I sort of agree but no team has a Dave Martin type of player anymore.
Dave wouldn’t have lasted twenty minutes in every game now.
His style, as much as I loved it, couldn’t happen in modern day football.
The best we can hope for is a disruptive player like Coleman.
I’d personally love a seriously combative midfielder to dominate, but they don’t seem to be about anymore.
 
Gills 58 said:
Speculating here of course but I guess we signed a load of players on top money to avoid relegation in Jan '23 with a bonus for keeping us up.

Been on the beach since. Wage thieves.
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Well, Nichols has gone on to steal elsewhere.

Hawkins gets criticised for his limitations but not often that his effort is called out.

We had the choice whether to sign Masterson permanently in the summer, after relegation had been avoided.

So that leaves Lapslie and Dieng from that window, on "top money".

Personally, I think we can live with that as their figures are as good, if not better than, Jonny Williams this season.
 
Gills 58 said:
Badly need a Dave Martin type player at this level.
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What, someone to give us one goal and a couple of sending offs?

He was more of a holding midfielder and I think we are OK with Ethan Coleman in that role, and generally our problems have not been in defence.

We need the dynamism and creativity in attacking midfield so a Hess or Kyle Dempsey type would be much better.

I really can't see Clem rating a clogger like Martin anyway.
 
Cuxton Blues said:
It was quite evident yesterday that we are someway off being promotion contenders if Mansfield is the standard. BG said we should expect 2-4 signings in the summer, not a mass overhaul. If that is the direction, then those additions will need to be of significant quality to turn this squad into being good enough for promotion.
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I remember that quote and thought he was being “politically correct” with his assessment. Didn’t want to get the squad offside.

By my reckoning we’ll have at least 4 off contract. Masterson, Morris, Sean Williams, possibly McKenzie, Malone or Nadesan. Then there’s loanees Walker, Mahoney and Hurtado ( but wouldn’t mind 2 of them back).

It seems as tho young Jeffries will be poached by higher clubs. Hope Coleman and Ogie aren’t targeted. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the club let any other players go if they chose or if other clubs offer.

The only certainties to stay imho assuming they are contracted and unless big offers come in, are -

Turner, Ogie (🤞), Hutton, Ehmer, Clark, Coleman, Dieng and Andrews. Plus 1 of Lapslie/JW.

I reckon our squad churn will be AT LEAST 4 new players, possibly up to 7 or 8. And I think we could construct a very decent squad around those remaining.
 
GillsBluenose said:
What, someone to give us one goal and a couple of sending offs?

He was more of a holding midfielder and I think we are OK with Ethan Coleman in that role, and generally our problems have not been in defence.

We need the dynamism and creativity in attacking midfield so a Hess or Kyle Dempsey type would be much better.

I really can't see Clem rating a clogger like Martin anyway.
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Not for his football ability but his leadership. We are desperately short of that. I didn't realise how important he was until he didn't play. A large number of this squad need a rocket up their arses, sadly.
 
I predicted before the season started that we would finish 8th unless we sorted out the options up front. We didn’t, and now we’re lower than my meagre expectations.
 
Gills 58 said:
Not for his football ability but his leadership. We are desperately short of that. I didn't realise how important he was until he didn't play. A large number of this squad need a rocket up their arses, sadly.
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Fair enough, although I would rather have another Adam Barrett, who actually made us champions 😊
 
Gills 58 said:
Not for his football ability but his leadership. We are desperately short of that. I didn't realise how important he was until he didn't play. A large number of this squad need a rocket up their arses, sadly.
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Pulis speaks highly of Dave Martin, as you say, not for his football ability but for his leadership, drive and ability to get the best out of the more talented players around him. Those more talented also knew they had a nasty bugget who had their back in their team.

Not sure I'd want any of our current lot (or most modern day footballers for that matter) 'in the trenches'. Lack of character that's also a modern society problem.
 
It started to go seriously awry last summer, when we failed miserably to address the very obvious weaknesses and imbalance in the squad - lack of power, pace and scoring ability. This was compounded by two other factors:

1. We didn't improve things in the January window. The recruitment team have to carry the can for that and not getting the summer signings right.
2. The decision to dump Harris in itself wasn't necessarily a mistake (you can understand the thinking), but not having a replacement lined up clearly was - crucial games wasted while we looked rudderless under Keith Millen.

But overall, it's more about the players than the managers IMHO. This lot have failed to deliver under 3 different coaches. We need a clear-out. Time to be ruthless if we're serious about success in 24-25.
 
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EagerExile said:
It started to go seriously awry last summer, when we failed miserably to address the very obvious weaknesses and imbalance in the squad - lack of power, pace and scoring ability. This was compounded by two other factors:

1. We didn't improve things in January window . The recruitment team have to carry the can for that and not getting the summer signings right.
2. The decision to dump Harris in itself wasn't necessarily a mistake (you can understand the thinking), but not having a replacement lined up clearly was - crucial games wasted while we looked rudderless under Keith Millen.

But overall, it's more about the players than the managers IMHO. This lot have failed to deliver under 3 different coaches. We need a clear-out. Time to be ruthless if we're serious about success in 24-25.
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I'd keep:

Masterson, Ehmer, Andrews, Jeffries, Mckenzie, Coleman, Ogie and Hutton.

The rest can go one way or another. I know some of those players are on big wages but it's money wasted.
 
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