what's the use of an apology? | Vital Football

what's the use of an apology?

the jock

the jock

Vital Football Legend
this season really hasn't been enjoyable. Personally can't wait for it to end. falling out of love with the game with everything that's going on. nothing ever stays the same but the game has changed for the worse in my opinion.

what is the use of an apology? what good will it do us? there are no options. so many poor decisions this season like when Boly got sent off after winning a tackle but Young kicks 2 people in the box yet not even a whistle.

no doubt we have been playing poor but at 1-0 but there was 3 penalty claims and if 2 were given, would young have still been on the pitch?

3 away wins in 2 seasons.
 
Lienking said:
How many apologies have we had ? Is it just the one, or have we had more than that ?
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We don't really know, and this is a big part of the problem with PGMOL. All this cloaks and daggers nonsense and refusal to make the process open and transparent. Are they so incompetent that they are afraid to show what's going on in the VAR room? Is this scenario really better than letting us, the fans, know what's happening?
 
I blame Awoniyi.
Seriously, look how we started the season, the 2 breakaway goals against Maure and Arsenal was a hint of what was to come.
Alas he's made of biscuits.
Our squad was set up to play to Awoniyis strength, and without him have had to play differently, as no replacement.
Cooper struggled big time to do this, Nuno only slightly better, getting more out of Wood.
Add this to Afcon, VAR and injuries.

If Awoniyi had stayed fit, or come back fit and not broken again this season would have been a very different story.

The defence has also been rank, the feeling was Felipe would carry on from last season, Boly would stay fit , Worrall would be adequate cover. Instead we've had to use a kid who had only played 15 professional games in his life in a sub standard league, and a mish mash of whoever is fit in a given week.
Felipe has been unfit/woeful, Boly has broken more times than skoda and Worral was discarded.
And let's not forget the keeper situation.

We've had really bad luck this season, some of our own making yes, but rotten fucking luck at every turn
 
I don't know if it does, but each apology should come with an explanation as to why the incorrect decision was reached by both the on field referee, & the VAR team. I presume the on field ref would just say sorry from where I was I didn't have a good enough view of it, although I would have thought that a fundamental part of the art of refereeing is the ability to be in such positions that you can see. Quite what Tierney's excuse for the Liverpool debacle I don't know.

As far as VAR are concerned there can generally be no such excuse except in isolated cases, but at the time they must have had their reasons for the decision they made, so lets be seeing what they were so we can judge the validity (when I say we I mean the club)
 
stenroach said:
I blame Awoniyi.
Seriously, look how we started the season, the 2 breakaway goals against Maure and Arsenal was a hint of what was to come.
Alas he's made of biscuits.
Our squad was set up to play to Awoniyis strength, and without him have had to play differently, as no replacement.
Cooper struggled big time to do this, Nuno only slightly better, getting more out of Wood.
Add this to Afcon, VAR and injuries.

If Awoniyi had stayed fit, or come back fit and not broken again this season would have been a very different story.

The defence has also been rank, the feeling was Felipe would carry on from last season, Boly would stay fit , Worrall would be adequate cover. Instead we've had to use a kid who had only played 15 professional games in his life in a sub standard league, and a mish mash of whoever is fit in a given week.
Felipe has been unfit/woeful, Boly has broken more times than skoda and Worral was discarded.
And let's not forget the keeper situation.

We've had really bad luck this season, some of our own making yes, but rotten fucking luck at every turn
Click to expand...
Last season we were unlucky with injuries, this season it feels like a normal amount of injuries for this league.
There was an article earlier in the season in one of the papers about the abnormal (compared to other leagues) amount of injuries, especially hamstrings in the prem.
essentially the pace of the league is the problem.

As for Awoyini, we knew he was made of biscuits and we didn’t bring in adequate cover.

Add to that letting Mangala go and not enough quality and cover in defence, and let’s not mention the Keeper debacle, our spine has been circumspect all season.
Hence where we find ourselves.

This season in entirely self inflicted.
 
stenroach said:
If Awoniyi had stayed fit, or come back fit and not broken again this season would have been a very different story.
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It's about time our players acknowledged who pays their inflated wages. The catalogue of players returning from internationals injured is unacceptable.
It seemed to start with Niakhate deciding to still go on international duty when already carrying an injury, result months out.
This year Sangare has come back ill resulting in weeks out, injured more weeks out.
Boly cam back from injured then went on international duty again & has not been seen since.
Aina returned from Afcon injured having played in final when not fit.
Taiwo went on international while managing an injury came back needing surgery
You could add to this MGW having no summer break due to U21 Euros
These are just those that spring to mind sure there are others
 
seasider red said:
I don't know if it does, but each apology should come with an explanation as to why the incorrect decision was reached by both the on field referee, & the VAR team. I presume the on field ref would just say sorry from where I was I didn't have a good enough view of it, although I would have thought that a fundamental part of the art of refereeing is the ability to be in such positions that you can see. Quite what Tierney's excuse for the Liverpool debacle I don't know.

As far as VAR are concerned there can generally be no such excuse except in isolated cases, but at the time they must have had their reasons for the decision they made, so lets be seeing what they were so we can judge the validity (when I say we I mean the club)
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For some reason I don't believe FA / PGMOL are subject to law regarding freedom of information requests. Which means they don't have to give the recordings out if asked to unless they feel they want to.

I think this is where our frustration builds up. Apology but no real disclosure. I mean when Liverpool had their offside goal thing that wasn't they were provided a full copy of the recording to show how the mistake happened.

Even on the Howard Webb show, have any of our contentious decisions been shown, explained and discussed. I know the Liverpool drop ball mistake wasn't even though it was clear that the 4th official was telling him he was making the wrong decision.

If we were to take out a legal case and sue, where would we stand on this if we listed each instance and requested copies of evidence for the case / trial. If they have to provide then I'd say it's worth it just to get that disclosure
 
I'm pretty sure it's not up to the players or parent club.
If the country say your going,you go.
 
Barry Goldie said:
For some reason I don't believe FA / PGMOL are subject to law regarding freedom of information requests. Which means they don't have to give the recordings out if asked to unless they feel they want to.

I think this is where our frustration builds up. Apology but no real disclosure. I mean Liverpool offside goal thing they provided a full copy of the recording to show how the mistake happened.

Even on the Howard Webb show, have any of our contentious decisions been shown, explained and discussed. I know the Liverpool ball mistake wasn't even though it was clear that the 4th official was telling him he was making the wrong decision.

If we were to take out a legal case and sue, where would stand on this if we listed each instance and requested copies of evidence for the case / trial. If they have to provide then I'd say it's worth it just to get that disclosure
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Sue for what though?

Getting a decision wrong isn't an offence, it's incompetence sure.
 
stenroach said:
I blame Awoniyi.
Seriously, look how we started the season, the 2 breakaway goals against Maure and Arsenal was a hint of what was to come.
Alas he's made of biscuits.
Our squad was set up to play to Awoniyis strength, and without him have had to play differently, as no replacement.
Cooper struggled big time to do this, Nuno only slightly better, getting more out of Wood.
Add this to Afcon, VAR and injuries.

If Awoniyi had stayed fit, or come back fit and not broken again this season would have been a very different story.

The defence has also been rank, the feeling was Felipe would carry on from last season, Boly would stay fit , Worrall would be adequate cover. Instead we've had to use a kid who had only played 15 professional games in his life in a sub standard league, and a mish mash of whoever is fit in a given week.
Felipe has been unfit/woeful, Boly has broken more times than skoda and Worral was discarded.
And let's not forget the keeper situation.

We've had really bad luck this season, some of our own making yes, but rotten fucking luck at every turn
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Interesting take. If we go down, I'd put it down too

1. The sale of /Inadequate replacement of Johnson. Elanga and CHO are too inconsistent and don't provide enough goals. Generally there arent enough players in the team who can produce a special goal
2. A recruitment policy which didnt recognise that Taiwo was made of biscuits
3. Second season syndrome, where people basically work you out
4. No real leaders in the team.
5. The system. Too desperate to move from Low block which was working better
6. Changing Cooper mid season and Afcon
7. Sangare has yet to justify his fee. Midfield is constantly lost


No particular order
 
CornishForest said:
Last season we were unlucky with injuries, this season it feels like a normal amount of injuries for this league.
There was an article earlier in the season in one of the papers about the abnormal (compared to other leagues) amount of injuries, especially hamstrings in the prem.
essentially the pace of the league is the problem.

As for Awoyini, we knew he was made of biscuits and we didn’t bring in adequate cover.

Add to that letting Mangala go and not enough quality and cover in defence, and let’s not mention the Keeper debacle, our spine has been circumspect all season.
Hence where we find ourselves.

This season in entirely self inflicted.
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Self Inflicted by who?
Who exactly is to blame?
There is no one person, it's a collection of almost everyone involved with the club at some point.
There us not on single instance or person we can point at and say there it is.
 
toms said:
Interesting take. If we go down, I'd put it down too

1. The sale of /Inadequate replacement of Johnson. Elanga and CHO are too inconsistent and don't provide enough goals. Generally there arent enough players in the team who can produce a special goal
2. A recruitment policy which didnt recognise that Taiwo was made of biscuits
3. Second season syndrome, where people basically work you out
4. No real leaders in the team.
5. The system. Too desperate to move from Low block which was working better
6. Changing Cooper mid season and Afcon
7. Sangare has yet to justify his fee. Midfield is constantly lost


No particular order
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Whilst I understand it and in some ways applaud it our recruitment seems to be either based on buying players to make a profit or chasing once great players but are no longer so, but we can afford.

You also have to buy players to actually keep you in the League and that means experience.

Wood has been our best purchase and that was at complete odds to our model.
 
Barry Goldie said:
If we were to take out a legal case and sue, where would we stand on this if we listed each instance and requested copies of evidence for the case / trial. If they have to provide then I'd say it's worth it just to get that disclosure
Click to expand...
The legal arguments could get interesting though couldn't they & it might just be the first step that is needed to prompt a more transparent system
 
toms said:
Interesting take. If we go down, I'd put it down too

1. The sale of /Inadequate replacement of Johnson. Elanga and CHO are too inconsistent and don't provide enough goals. Generally there arent enough players in the team who can produce a special goal
2. A recruitment policy which didnt recognise that Taiwo was made of biscuits
3. Second season syndrome, where people basically work you out
4. No real leaders in the team.
5. The system. Too desperate to move from Low block which was working better
6. Changing Cooper mid season and Afcon
7. Sangare has yet to justify his fee. Midfield is constantly lost


No particular order
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Johnson had to go for finances, and he wanted to go.
Elangs has about 15 goal contributions and could have had 15 more, CHO has,5? They've been more than adequate direct cover for Jonno in the winger Position.
Cooper had to go with the run we were on, I'm not saying Nuno was the right choice, I never said it back then either, but we had to make a change.
We will never know where would be if we hadn't, so no point speculating.
Low block with our current defence? Do me a favour.
 
stenroach said:
Johnson had to go for finances, and he wanted to go.
Elangs has about 15 goal contributions and could have had 15 more, CHO has,5? They've been more than adequate direct cover for Jonno in the winger Position.
Cooper had to go with the run we were on, I'm not saying Nuno was the right choice, I never said it back then either, but we had to make a change.
We will never know where would be if we hadn't, so no point speculating.
Low block with our current defence? Do me a favour.
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I said not enough goals. Not decrying his contributions but we need more goals from different positions

Personally I think we needed an extra defender or midfielder in there with 3 forward players and one midfielder supporting with the other two sitting. The purpose of bringing Sangare in was that he was supposed to allow the 2 midfielder system but it didn't work out

I would play Sangare Dominguez and Danilo with Elanga , MGW and Wood against City or maybe a back 5. I just don't feel we have had enough solidity to player a number 10 , 2 wingers and Wood

Maybe the players arent good enough but for sure some of the decisions have been laughable. The Reyna penalty was absolutely cast ironed.

I also have a few doubts about Murillo. Im wondering whether he might be better at left back . Too late to try now
 
toms said:
I also have a few doubts about Murillo. Im wondering whether he might be better at left back . Too late to try now
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Absolutely not. When he goes on his odd foray forward from CB it takes him too long to get back into position. There's no way Murillo spends 90 minutes marauding up and down the wing from fullback. He's a quick and athletic for a CB, but he's no full back.
 
toms said:
I said not enough goals. Not decrying his contributions but we need more goals from different positions

Personally I think we needed an extra defender or midfielder in there with 3 forward players and one midfielder supporting with the other two sitting. The purpose of bringing Sangare in was that he was supposed to allow the 2 midfielder system but it didn't work out

I would play Sangare Dominguez and Danilo with Elanga , MGW and Wood against City or maybe a back 5. I just don't feel we have had enough solidity to player a number 10 , 2 wingers and Wood

Maybe the players arent good enough but for sure some of the decisions have been laughable. The Reyna penalty was absolutely cast ironed.

I also have a few doubts about Murillo. Im wondering whether he might be better at left back . Too late to try now
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We can't fuck about with trying different players this late on and the position we are in.
Even Reyna, shouldn't have started in front of Elanga if he was truly fit.
Midfield is constantly being changed, even Niakate in yesterday, stick with a settled side when possible FFS.
Sangare has ran out if time this season, with Afcon and injuries he just hasn't got up to speed.
I agree with Murrilo, for all his 70 yard shots and run against palace is he a steady dependable, top defender?
Not yet. He probably will be, he does some brilliant defending at times but Has been ever present during which we've shipped 25 set piece goals which he has to be held accountable as much as whoever was playing alongside him.
 
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