What started the decline? | Vital Football

What started the decline?

M

mick745

Vital Reserves Team
Many have stated that the club has been in decline for a number of years and the current team is that legacy.

But where did the decline start, was it the sale of a particular player who wasnt replaced, the removal of a certain manager (Allen or Edinburgh for example), or something else.

My view is that it set in long ago, maybe with the sale of Paul Shaw, i dont believe the team was quite the same after that which ultimately led to relegation from the Championship the season after, then another relegation in 2008 and a completely unnecessary relegation again in 2010.

After promotion in 2013, there was 9 years where the team were usually mid table except in 15/16 when the team got 50 points in its first 25 matches only to lose at wigan from 2-0 ahead and not even making the play-offs in the end.

But is there a moment where it all started to go wrong?
 
Certainly our fall from the dizziest heights we've ever achieved did coincide with the time of the Paul Shaw sale but I don't think it was the cause.

We were never going to stay in The Championship and I was content that after a couple of years of yo-yo we established ourselves as a League 1 club.

imo The pandemic did for us. I know that every club would have experienced the same issues but we didn't seem set up to cope with it.

Sadly any efforts that the man in charge tried to make were hampered by the actions of those that chose to vilify him and make his life a misery.

The most recent and most major decline didn't start until whatever happened mid-season last year when Steve Evans was in charge and I'm not sure how the free-fall that has taken place since can be stopped.
 
Putting one's finger on the pendulum moment is an interesting exercise and might bring many answers. I'd say whenever that moment was it coincided with a change in the terms of owning and running a lower club. A single owner without additional investors and/or very deep pockets can no longer keep a club competitive, or maybe even afloat. That situation evolved over time but it's brutally evident in November 2022.
 
I agree the pandemic issues highlighted and probably sped up what was coming. That most lower league clubs now cannot operate and survive on the income they generate., especially if they wish to compete at the right end of the table.

Most clubs now that are successful, even in non league, have an 'artificial' budget which allows them to do so.

Our problems lie almost with us being too well run by Mr. Scally, keeping to the budget. If a football regulator was in place and other clubs did this the picture would be a lot different.

Yes you can point to player sales, poor manager choices but ultimately money rules 90 % of the time and we don't have as much as the others.
 
As Gills69 indicates, we were never going to be an established Championship level side on our gates, and with no investment.

As soon as a richer or higher level club approached us for one of our best players (usually Colin at Sheff U) we were never in a position to turn down the offers or expect an ambitious player to stay. Hence SBT, Asaba, Jailbird Marlon, Iffy, Sidibe and Baldy Shaw all moved on, often at reduced prices due to being in the last year of their contract.

We have not had a thriving youth system since PS has been in charge. Jarvis and Dack have been the best to break in to the side but they were originally at other academies.

So we found our way back to League One, where our turnover and gates still put us in the middle to lower half. Since then it has been feast for JED and SE with occasional bigger budgets interspersed with comparitive famine for the managers with lesser pedigree like AP. SL and NH who have to shop at the Football version of Poundland. SE would not accept that so did as much damage as he could, which is what he does. Vindictive arse.

It has not been a steady decline as we have had promotions as well as relegations, but factor in the pandemic and Scally's health issues and it is easy to see how the nosedive has happened.
 
I think it started when we kept hanging onto the old guard too long like ashby, pennock, smith, hess etc we never really replaced any of them like for like and what did come in was not as good. Just got too comfortable and too laspe as a club and maybe as fans?

Obv things mentioned above attributed but i think this also did not help.
 
The decline in recent years for me started when we decided to put all our eggs in one basket in the year we signed JET. I think Scally was convinced Edinburgh would get promotion and rumoured paying one player over seasons has had a knock on affect over the years.

It could be argued that Dack's loss of form did not help either, as I think Scally thought the sale of an inform Dack would bank roll the club for a while
 
We have been really unlucky with player trasnfers compared to other clubs. Peterborough for example do really well out of it, but have the money there to invest in non league and lower league talent to start with.

2 examples for us that spring to mind are Dack, lost a bit of form at the wrong time and before that declined the Bristol City approach, and probably the one that really got away was Marlon King, for reasons we won't go into. A 20 goal a season championship striker would of allowed us to completely rebuild or at worst pay off the debt at the time.
 
A big payout from a Bradley Dack sell on might have eased the financial hit of the pandemic but it was not to be.
Scally was very vocal in getting a bit of l trickle down money but we clearly struggled to pay some back so an enforced embargo hasn't helped matters either.
 
From my view I was never overly critical of Scally because after the debt issue he ran us responsibly in terms of living within our means.

However as a club since the championship days we have not grown and have stood still some years and then regressed in others in terms of income and how we can compete. To be clear im discounting the clubs with huge backers as we could never compete with them and it was unreasonable to expect Scally to do so.

But in terms of keeping pace with us being a mid table league one team we have regressed. We never had a recruitment team which has been mentioned as far back as JED who was derided for it, how time has proved him right. Whether Shorey is the right guy or not doesn't matter, we need to get up to speed with the last 15 years. To have had managers recruiting with their knowledge and a few scouts on consultancy is awful. The results bear fruit. How many players have we sold for big money (for us) since we left the championship? Jarvis, Jackson, Dack, Egan (I'm including decent tribunal), Tucker, Dempsey, Henderson. After that I'm all out and this is from 2004/2005 onwards. So had we recruited better we could have reinvested in the team and by having a better standard of football it may have helped with attendances to some extent.

The next and I don't have the answer but I know the problem is that our outreach and promotion of the club hasn't been good. Yes its easy to sit here and for me to say it with no obvious answer bar chuck loads of money at it, but for whatever reason other comparable clubs have done better. The whole experience of visiting Priestfield, finding out about going and outreach isn't good. If were honest with ourselves and compare ourselves to other teams is going to Priestfield that good when compared to other teams? Its not awful or anything but your selling a product.

Then and this is probably the smallest point Scally does from the outside appear to be difficult when you listen to people. Like the whole I refuse to pay the agents. I'm no advocate of agents but if you pay a higher fee and the player pays the agent or if you pay a smaller fee and pay an agent as well, if the overall cost is no different then what are squabbling about? If scally has paid lower fees overall because of his hatred for agents then we probably do miss out on targets which may have hurt us over a long period. Also agents all know each other and all know chairman's, you build up a profile. Obviously on the other end its great we don't get taken for a ride but you can kill opportunity if you go to hard.

One final point, look at our last 3 external (non gills ex player) appointments. JED, Evans and Harris have had success everywhere except Gillingham. to my knowledge they have not outright failed at any other club. We cant count Northampton for JED because he was there for a short period and the owners had their own guy. But it tells a tale in my opinion, the common factor is Gills.

Maybe I'm wrong but this is my take from what I've seen since 2002 when I first came.
 
The year Scally bought Gillingham we finished 4th from bottom of League 3. We are now 2nd from bottom of League 3. So I would say the decline started when Scally bought Gillingham! (That's a tongue in cheek answer before I get crucified).
 
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In our Championship days when we spent beyond our means, leading to getting into debt (along with the overspend on the ground redevelopment and itv digital).

After the restructuring we had to live within our means, not through choice but through necessity, meaning gradually the investment in to the playing side in the main has reduced because monies needed to be prioritised elsewhere gradually meaning we've gone slowly backwards over the last 15 years, with covid kicking us in the proverbials just at the wrong time.

Sadly a lack of investment on the playing front from PS or outside has meant we've come to where we are today, PS realising what the football club needs is beyond him.

The only thing that is going to turn our current situation around is investment but that's been the case for the last five years, everything in that time has just been papering over the cracks and sadly delaying the inevitable of where we are today.
 
The money's run out pure and simple. The same thing happened in 1993 and we had 3 years of rubbish players until administration. Up until a couple of years ago Scally seemed to always find a bit to make a decent signing but not now. Agree with the poster above who said someone like Scally can't run a league club now.
 
Captainreblue said:
In our Championship days when we spent beyond our means, leading to getting into debt (along with the overspend on the ground redevelopment and itv digital).

After the restructuring we had to live within our means, not through choice but through necessity, meaning gradually the investment in to the playing side in the main has reduced because monies needed to be prioritised elsewhere gradually meaning we've gone slowly backwards over the last 15 years, with covid kicking us in the proverbials just at the wrong time.

Sadly a lack of investment on the playing front from PS or outside has meant we've come to where we are today, PS realising what the football club needs is beyond him.

The only thing that is going to turn our current situation around is investment but that's been the case for the last five years, everything in that time has just been papering over the cracks and sadly delaying the inevitable of where we are today.
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Even though we still would have been borrowing, ITV digital going under must have made it worse for us and many other clubs?

I think we were spending future money to try to get to the promised land of the PL if I remember correct. But by not getting there and then ITV digital collapsing we just kicked the can down the road on debt as far as I could see.
 
Vambogills said:
A big payout from a Bradley Dack sell on might have eased the financial hit of the pandemic but it was not to be.
Scally was very vocal in getting a bit of l trickle down money but we clearly struggled to pay some back so an enforced embargo hasn't helped matters either.
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Like Truss style trickle down money?
 
Vambogills said:
A big payout from a Bradley Dack sell on might have eased the financial hit of the pandemic but it was not to be.
Scally was very vocal in getting a bit of l trickle down money but we clearly struggled to pay some back so an enforced embargo hasn't helped matters either.
Click to expand...

That would have been short term relief. These odd sales here and there dont change our long term future it just kicked the can down the road.
 
antonpage said:
Even though we still would have been borrowing, ITV digital going under must have made it worse for us and many other clubs?

I think we were spending future money to try to get to the promised land of the PL if I remember correct. But by not getting there and then ITV digital collapsing we just kicked the can down the road on debt as far as I could see.
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We were clearly borrowing money to subsidise our Championship playing squad, the redevelopment and a any other projects GFC did. The glossy "path to the Premier League" or whatever it was titled) brochure was the closest we were ever going to get to the Premier League (other than in PS ' head).

If you listened to PS at the time of the ITV digital collapse he was shouting from the rooftops how we wouldn't be as affected as other clubs because we hadn't spent the money in advance. Hindsight tells us we had.
 
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