Var again (n/h) | Vital Football

Var again (n/h)

G

Gills 58

Vital Champions League
F#cking ridiculous. Just watched MOTD 2 and seen the Wolves goal disallowed for "handball".

I'm a neutral re the outcome of this match but the rule is f#cking absurd.

The Man City "shoulder" was bad enough but this "handball" is a farce. Players will need their arms amputated pre match at this rate. The spirit and flow of the game is being crucufied.

Utter bollocks.
 
Lark said:
Agree with your sentiment, but they did explain it was correctly ruled out due to the new handball rule. So perhaps the rule needs changing rather than use of VAR.
Click to expand...
Yes seems that VAR is getting a bad rep because of people disagreeing with laws of the game.
 
What was wrong with the previous laws?

F*ck the new law and f*ck VAR.
I’m with Gills58.

How the heck that was handball under any interpretation of football I’ve no idea.

Ampute every players arms. That’s the only way to avoid a penalty now. Oh, and make it a non-contact sport, because it seems any contact at all in the area warrants a penalty as well.

I’d like to say rant over. But I know I’m gonna rant at the next ridiculous decision as well. I’m too old and too grumpy. Modern football (rules) sux big time.
 
100% agree with what the Wolves manager said after the game...

"What I'm concerned about is, let's not ruin the game," said Nuno.

"It's what fans come for, to celebrate a goal, not to celebrate a no goal - that's not the real celebration of football.

"It's not good for the atmosphere of football. The Leicester fans were celebrating the no goal. That's not the mindset of the game. Six months ago it would've been a goal, so that is an issue for VAR.

"We have such a nice Premier League, such a product, we cannot lose that. Two minutes the game stopped. The anxiety of us celebrating, then we waited - it's not the spirit of the game."
 
I have no problem on use of VAR for matters of fact, such as whether the ball is over the line.

I have a very big problem with using it for matters of opinion.

Handball has always been in the opinion of the referee and always has had to be deliberate.

The trouble with VAR is nobody is taking responsibility for making the decisions anymore. In a game where quite a few decisions are marginal one person has to make the call and that person has to be the referee as the person in charge. If a decision cant be seen with the naked eye by the officials in the stadium then it shouldnt be made at all.

I warn also that there will be a slow creep of more decisions made by VAR, throw ins, corners, etc. completely ruining the game's flow. We'll also get "VAR bought to you in association with Bet365" (or whatever betting company) with the delays used to run adverts.

Why the obsession of getting all decisions correct all the time anyway. It is just a game folks. Although i want Gills to do well it doesnt fundamentally alter my life they are in a certain league or not. The better players always find a better club to earn a living at anyway.
 
The new handball law makes for more problems rather than solving them; for example, it's not a free kick if the ball is knocked on to a hand by a player but in the same circumstance if the ball then goes into the goal off an attacker it is a free kick - fcuking nonsense. Then we have the situation when a player's hand or arm has made their body "unnaturally bigger" - another nonsense because it depends on the personal interpretation of the video ref - fcuking bollox. It's also a fcuking nonsense that a player is offside if a player's shoulder is ahead of a defender by the breadth of a gnat's cock because the machine said so. Let's hope that before too long we'll read about the farcical attempt to fcuk up football that was soon confined to history.
 
Last edited:
Some good comments above.

Does anyone know exactly why there is such a big push for VAR?

Is it the FA or Governing bodies? Is it the media or video companies? Is it the football clubs themselves?

Is it the fans? Surely not. I don’t think too many of them are in favor.

And I think it’s been said before, I hope it’s not in an attempt to get the right decision. That can never happen unless we go down the path mick and Wayne have indicated of looking at every single throw in, foul and corner.

It is a game, it’s not mathematical calculus and computer science. Unless we let it be.
 
I agree with most of above, but remember England fans fury at the Lampard non-goal which (correctly) brought in goal-line tech and then its a slippery slope

I prefer the NFL where its line-decisions and 'fouls' and handball are left to the umps (despite the gross injustice of the foul in the semi-final last year) ; i.e. VAR for 'facts'

Perhaps a better way is a 4th ref (2 on the field) ; as the Assistants behind the goal seem useless
 
I am not a fan of conspiracy theories but I remember early attempts to make football popular in the US. Questions were asked about playing four quarters and having advertising breaks. The Wolves manager has hit the bullseye, take away the flow and passion and it's no longer football. The current application of VAR is absurd and undermines the authority of referees and destroys faith in what were once simple rules. Football is a simple game, or it is nothing.
 
Good points mick. Also agree with Nuno. Accept the new "handball" rule is the major part of the particular problem here but mick (above) and Nuno make good observations in general. The game is being ruined. Even worse than the effect on cricket and rugby which at least tend to have natural breaks.
 
and like in cricket now, where the umps refer everything (like run outs) where its obviously not out , the refs will soon start to review everything
Hope its a while before it comes down to us in Lge 1
 
It's ironic that Wenger, Mourhino and Ferguson (the three most tiresome whingers about referees and their decisions) were the loudest voices calling for a VAR type solution. None are managing in the Premier league anymore so are not affected by the joy sapping monster that VAR has become .
 
Broncos77 said:
and like in cricket now, where the umps refer everything (like run outs) where its obviously not out , the refs will soon start to review everything
Hope its a while before it comes down to us in Lge 1
Click to expand...
I agree regarding cricket but at least there is a natural break after each ball is bowled. Yes, it's annoying but at least nothing is left for personal interpretation. The idea, as in tennis, that players/teams have a limited number of appeals might help but ultimately VAR is shit. It's not helped either by the recent law changes that add little or nothing to the game.
 
OSK, the Premier Leagues clubs voted in favour of introducing VAR.

Think there will be teething problems with it but once everyone gets used to the changes it'll settle down. Remember the introduction of the back pass rule.

Managers who are moaning about VAR this week because its gone against them will be praising it when it goes in their favour.

Think the offside needs to be changed to have clear "daylight" for it to be offside, not his left arm pit hair was playing him onside.
 
Captainreblue said:
OSK, the Premier Leagues clubs voted in favour of introducing VAR.
Click to expand...
True so they won't be changing their minds soon unless the public is so enraged.
Captainreblue said:
Think there will be teething problems with it but once everyone gets used to the changes it'll settle down. Remember the introduction of the back pass rule.
Click to expand...
Agreed but the game will be different hereafter.
Captainreblue said:
Managers who are moaning about VAR this week because its gone against them will be praising it when it goes in their favour.
Click to expand...
Again agreed but the moaning one way or another will be justified in part because what you'd think should be a technical matter is still left to the opinion of an individual. We saw it in the women's world cup; almost identical handball incidents inside the penalty area - one given the other not.
Captainreblue said:
Think the offside needs to be changed to have clear "daylight" for it to be offside, not his left arm pit hair was playing him onside.
Click to expand...
Most definitely agree - perhaps they should make a decision based on the crowd's reaction because when the margin was so fine as in the Man City game I doubt anyone in the crowd would have deemed it offside and cried foul.

It seems to me that the new rules imposed by IFAB are either rules for the sake of it or to more suit the continental game.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
True so they won't be changing their minds soon unless the public is so enraged.

Agreed but the game will be different hereafter.

Again agreed but the moaning one way or another will be justified in part because what you'd think should be a technical matter is still left to the opinion of an individual. We saw it in the women's world cup; almost identical handball incidents inside the penalty area - one given the other not.

Most definitely agree - perhaps they should make a decision based on the crowd's reaction because when the margin was so fine as in the Man City game I doubt anyone in the crowd would have deemed it offside and cried foul.

It seems to me that the new rules imposed by IFAB are either rules for the sake of it or to more suit the continental game.
Click to expand...
To me i think all VAR is doing is showing up certain laws to be inadequate. Thats not the fault of VAR. Thats the fault of the crap laws.

I also disagree with the offside rules and the handball rules. But the refs are generally correctly applying them with VAR. im not going to criticise VAR for that.
 
I take your points about the rules AK but VAR is sold on the promise of certainty, which it cannot and will not deliver.

VAR can't measure intent, or allow any nuance.

Earlier adjustments to the offside law first made level onside and then later deemed that any doubt should be awarded to the attacker. Most agreed that these changes improved matters but VAR renders them obselete. More absurd still is that, having shovelled the decision out beyond the realms of human perception, we then have a team of humans making a committee decision on the micro measurements that remain.

I just don't believe in it for anything other than very basic stuff and even then it would need to be way quicker than at present. Further down this route AI will replace the ref and so on.
 
jogills said:
Further down this route AI will replace the ref and so on.
Click to expand...

Replace the ref. He’s got opinions.

Replace the players. We have no idea of their intent.

Replace the stadium and crowd. They can influence the above with opinions, unknown weather, etc.

Ditto the playing surface. That can affect things in unknown ways.

FIFA 2021 on Android anyone? 100% computer generated. Good graphics too, you can remove the ugly players.
 
Another thing is the checking of offsides only when a goal is scored makes no sense. Surely it is equally offside if no goal is scored. All this 'you are either offside or you're not' seems to only apply when there is a goal.

If a player goes through from offside say and there is no goal but wins a corner which they score from what happens?

Also if the linesman flags and a goal is scored and it is found to not be offside then is it a goal? Obviously not - so the whole thing is a mess.

You are either offside or you're not - but only if a goal is scored it seems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.