Tottenham v Arsenal | Page 3 | Vital Football

Tottenham v Arsenal

gztar83 said:
You'll be surprised :) I loved the old Wimbledon! Although I'm not sure they would get away with half of the challenges they made today :) And I sure loved watching Delap's long throws ins, seeing how other sides would fear it and prefer to concede corners instead of a throw.

City and Liverpool are so predictable in what they do, but with the most expensive and top players in those systems it's very difficult to stop.

It's not aesthetically pleasing at the moment, but the days are so early and if Jose is able to create anything like his Real Madrid side second season in, I think many would be a lot more satisfied with the football on offer - regular super quick counter-attacks that ripped La Liga and Pep's Barca in their absolute prime to shreds - with record points and record goals scored. And Pep still plays the same way today.

Personally this counter style I find more exciting and beautiful to watch. Quick, decisive, smart, clinical, and incisive football.

In order to do that though, aside investments needed, our current crop going forward need to be a lot better with their decision making when the quick break is on - our forwards have really struggled in that aspect so far. Poch's style was the complete opposite to Jose's that needs time for adaptation.

Moura dribbles too much, Lamela holds onto the ball too long when making strides into that final third, and Kane still seems off the pace at the moment.

Time will tell if they can adapt / learn this. If they can, I strongly believe things will improve greatly going forward, and you'll get to see real exciting counter-attacking football at its best. My fear is though, they simply won't be able to.
Click to expand...


I like counter attacking football but we are not playing that.We are not playing even a form of that.What we are playing is barely football.Each to there own ,I hated watching Wimbledon kick crap out of good players now days they would never make it even the championship.As for delaps throws I see the use in it and how it simplifies things but that was just throw and hope no skill involved that is not for me but that's why we love football know 2 people see the same thing.You are right Lucas dribbling but as for Lamela yes he does drive forward but always with his head up but usually there is know one there.

At real we cannot simply compete and do what they did.Even if Jose was not I think done he could not sign anywhere near the amount of players he did at Real or attract the same quality.We will get players like Willian who is not in there prime just wanting to get one more big deal.We want players in there prime hungry for success and top quality but we will not get that.Plus he got 1 good season then he lost the dressing room and tanked in the league.He again did well at Chelsea for one season then fell out with everyone even having a go at the lady doctor.One of the reasons I hate him is the way he turns on everyone when things go wrong.He did the same at Man utd ,he spent £362 million at utd and still only managed 2nd yes he won the Europa but with the players he had and purchased he should had done better and build a team that won things but again he messed.
I want more yes I want to win things but it's not going to happen in one year .This squad needs hundreds of millions spent on it and we all know that won't happen.So this is a project and his first job would have been to pick the team up and get some consistency in our play and results and put smiles on the players and fans faces and he has failed on all of it so far.I can remember him coming in saying how we should get cl football now saying it was impossible.Unless levy sells and we get taken over by someone with a few billion and a willingness to spend massively we he is not the right fit for us
 
Lovely to watch a team that knows how to defend and play on the break beat one of the new tippy-tippy kings, Chelsea....particularly nice to see the racist Rudiger set up Utd’s third goal by falling over in the box and passing it straight to McGoldrick to score from 6 yards...Chelsea didn’t even score one goal like we did.

After 60 minutes of the tippy-tippy Chelsea did change tactics and sent on Giroud to partner Abraham and then they tried lumping it up to the two big guys, but they just got swallowed up by Utd’s defence...great stuff.
 
Spurs1569 said:
I like counter attacking football but we are not playing that.We are not playing even a form of that.What we are playing is barely football.Each to there own ,I hated watching Wimbledon kick crap out of good players now days they would never make it even the championship.As for delaps throws I see the use in it and how it simplifies things but that was just throw and hope no skill involved that is not for me but that's why we love football know 2 people see the same thing.You are right Lucas dribbling but as for Lamela yes he does drive forward but always with his head up but usually there is know one there.

At real we cannot simply compete and do what they did.Even if Jose was not I think done he could not sign anywhere near the amount of players he did at Real or attract the same quality.We will get players like Willian who is not in there prime just wanting to get one more big deal.We want players in there prime hungry for success and top quality but we will not get that.Plus he got 1 good season then he lost the dressing room and tanked in the league.He again did well at Chelsea for one season then fell out with everyone even having a go at the lady doctor.One of the reasons I hate him is the way he turns on everyone when things go wrong.He did the same at Man utd ,he spent £362 million at utd and still only managed 2nd yes he won the Europa but with the players he had and purchased he should had done better and build a team that won things but again he messed.
I want more yes I want to win things but it's not going to happen in one year .This squad needs hundreds of millions spent on it and we all know that won't happen.So this is a project and his first job would have been to pick the team up and get some consistency in our play and results and put smiles on the players and fans faces and he has failed on all of it so far.I can remember him coming in saying how we should get cl football now saying it was impossible.Unless levy sells and we get taken over by someone with a few billion and a willingness to spend massively we he is not the right fit for us
Click to expand...
How can you rightly say this squad needs hundreds of millions spending on it and then go on to say that he should be producing performances that put a smile on our faces...I think you are right to say this is a project and we need some stability and time to make the changes....small steps...
 
Harry-Kari said:
How can you rightly say this squad needs hundreds of millions spending on it and then go on to say that he should be producing performances that put a smile on our faces...I think you are right to say this is a project and we need some stability and time to make the changes....small steps...
Click to expand...

For me I think this is a project a long term one.What I am saying is to play Jose's way it's going to need hundreds of millions.Kane ,Son ,Ali ,Lucas Tanguy,Aurier and Davies I would also put berg on that list as he is not the hardest worker.Then you have to buy the quality needed but know one of quality will come to a club not in Europe so we will be stuck with mediocre.Thats the only reason I say we will need that much money.
Jose was brought in to bring instant success to make sure we stay in Europe and hopefully keep our top stars happy and improve them.The team is definitely not getting Europe ,the players are not looking happy and there form is at a all time low.When have you seen Kane and Son poor
 
Spurs1569 said:
I like counter attacking football but we are not playing that.We are not playing even a form of that.What we are playing is barely football.Each to there own ,I hated watching Wimbledon kick crap out of good players now days they would never make it even the championship.As for delaps throws I see the use in it and how it simplifies things but that was just throw and hope no skill involved that is not for me but that's why we love football know 2 people see the same thing.You are right Lucas dribbling but as for Lamela yes he does drive forward but always with his head up but usually there is know one there.

At real we cannot simply compete and do what they did.Even if Jose was not I think done he could not sign anywhere near the amount of players he did at Real or attract the same quality.We will get players like Willian who is not in there prime just wanting to get one more big deal.We want players in there prime hungry for success and top quality but we will not get that.Plus he got 1 good season then he lost the dressing room and tanked in the league.He again did well at Chelsea for one season then fell out with everyone even having a go at the lady doctor.One of the reasons I hate him is the way he turns on everyone when things go wrong.He did the same at Man utd ,he spent £362 million at utd and still only managed 2nd yes he won the Europa but with the players he had and purchased he should had done better and build a team that won things but again he messed.
I want more yes I want to win things but it's not going to happen in one year .This squad needs hundreds of millions spent on it and we all know that won't happen.So this is a project and his first job would have been to pick the team up and get some consistency in our play and results and put smiles on the players and fans faces and he has failed on all of it so far.I can remember him coming in saying how we should get cl football now saying it was impossible.Unless levy sells and we get taken over by someone with a few billion and a willingness to spend massively we he is not the right fit for us
Click to expand...

There's a lot you are correct with there. You're right with the counter-attacking - and at the moment that's due to the player's fitness, decision making in the final third, and a brand new philosophy for every player to learn and adapt to. all with a greater priority of tightening up the defence first.

The number of times we have the opportunity to break, but the wrong decision is made or a poor quality pass. The counter never gets started and will of course invite more pressure. And that's where the frustration kicks in. It appears like we are playing rubbish, and well we are at this moment - because the players aren't carrying out the game-plan successfully.

We are also lacking the tools to do it, especially without Erikson. And we are suffering from lacking that creator/set piece specialist when in possession too. One man can make a big difference - look at Fernandes at United, effectively their Erikson. United in possession couldn't break low blocks - now they can.

JM is also focusing on getting the defensive structure right. He has said in the past he doesn't want to lose the attacking threat up top - but the injuries forced this upon him. But yes, I do hope we can see some more successful offensive plays and quick transitions on the counter. But he and the players needs time both on the training ground and getting back that fitness / sharpness.

We are starting to see more clean sheets, less rash challenges when teams are playing it around our box notably from Aurier too, and a better ability to keep teams out when under pressure. To me this is a very positive sign and crucial to have in our armoury going forward, but yes the defensive / offensive balance must be addressed as quick and well as possible before we start next year.

However I believe if we can continue to put in good defensive performances until the end of the year irrespective of where we finish, this will undoubtedly bring a different type of confidence to the group never had before, and the forward players will hopefully have more confidence in our back-line and play their part defensively too.

Having more faith in the back-line will also give our forward players more confidence to play a little riskier and with more freedom knowing they have a solid defence behind them.

I am more than certain he'll be trying to train and get the message across to the forward players the importance of being decisive and clinical, but sadly that doesn't mean they have the footballing brain or ability to carry this out. There is only so much the manager can do.

Additionally the players aren't good enough - and assume you agree, as many millions do need to be spent and on top quality, which unfortunately won't happen.

But these are reasons why it's unfair to judge him until he's had one full season at the helm. He will have had time to improve the defence, improve the individuals to suit his system, and bring in players to improve the first XI in key areas.

He probably was not the immediate right fit when you list down on paper everything about him historically and his style, as it will take longer for players to adapt to this - but here we are. Support the bloke.

Given we aren't ever going to be able to compete financially with the bigger clubs and buy the top players, being sides Pep and Klopp are only ever going to be actually capable of managing in their careers - you need someone else that can compete with a less superior side at their disposal but can still win at the top level and has proven to do so.

The Porto and Inter ECL triumphs do prove that, and winning La Liga from Barca @ their best. I strongly recommend you give the Inter 3 - Barca 1 match a view in the ECl. Brilliant watch, seeing how Inter picked Barca off and then defend like warriors.

At Man United, I thought he did a very good job to be honest first two seasons. A comical Phil Jones Chris Smalling pairing that gets a 2nd place finish, FA cup final, a League Cup and a Europa League win, and stuck with the worst team player bar Ozil you can have in Paul Pogba.

Reports had strongly suggested he also didn't have a say in a number of transfers made at Man United, who and how many only they will know. But it sounded like the board blocked most of those he wished for, and brought in some players he didn't even want. So his hands seemed tied, and he was made to work with a squad he didn't really want to have in his third season. This would make sense why it went bad so soon after signing a contract extension.

And in all honesty, if I was offered to extend my contract and then the board chose to not back me in the market a month later - being ambitious and looking to improve the squad / win things, I would have also been cheesed off, and I'm not surprised it went sour after that. False promises.

So his motivation went, and that negativity would have rubbed off on the players which is where it went wrong - but the seed was planted by the United board.

I also thought JM was doing a more than decent job for us prior the injury crisis that hit. If we had everyone fit for that period, along with the VAR decisions that has already stolen at least 4 points from us since the return, I believe we would still be heavily in the mix for an ECL spot after such a points disadvantage when JM joined.

At this point we just need to get everyone fit and fighting in the same direction so we can hopefully see better things next year, and not have the obstacles JM has had to deal with ever since he's been here.

If there is no progression made by end of next season - that's when it's certainly fairer to evaluate things and ask further questions as to whether it requires only a few more additions to fix that can be invested in, or if it is passed that point.

But this job imo is at least a 3 year project to bring us back to consistent top 4 challengers - and that's excluding other factors which may change this dynamic.
 
gztar83 said:
There's a lot you are correct with there. You're right with the counter-attacking - and at the moment that's due to the player's fitness, decision making in the final third, and a brand new philosophy for every player to learn and adapt to. all with a greater priority of tightening up the defence first.

The number of times we have the opportunity to break, but the wrong decision is made or a poor quality pass. The counter never gets started and will of course invite more pressure. And that's where the frustration kicks in. It appears like we are playing rubbish, and well we are at this moment - because the players aren't carrying out the game-plan successfully.

We are also lacking the tools to do it, especially without Erikson. And we are suffering from lacking that creator/set piece specialist when in possession too. One man can make a big difference - look at Fernandes at United, effectively their Erikson. United in possession couldn't break low blocks - now they can.

JM is also focusing on getting the defensive structure right. He has said in the past he doesn't want to lose the attacking threat up top - but the injuries forced this upon him. But yes, I do hope we can see some more successful offensive plays and quick transitions on the counter. But he and the players needs time both on the training ground and getting back that fitness / sharpness.

We are starting to see more clean sheets, less rash challenges when teams are playing it around our box notably from Aurier too, and a better ability to keep teams out when under pressure. To me this is a very positive sign and crucial to have in our armoury going forward, but yes the defensive / offensive balance must be addressed as quick and well as possible before we start next year.

However I believe if we can continue to put in good defensive performances until the end of the year irrespective of where we finish, this will undoubtedly bring a different type of confidence to the group never had before, and the forward players will hopefully have more confidence in our back-line and play their part defensively too.

Having more faith in the back-line will also give our forward players more confidence to play a little riskier and with more freedom knowing they have a solid defence behind them.

I am more than certain he'll be trying to train and get the message across to the forward players the importance of being decisive and clinical, but sadly that doesn't mean they have the footballing brain or ability to carry this out. There is only so much the manager can do.

Additionally the players aren't good enough - and assume you agree, as many millions do need to be spent and on top quality, which unfortunately won't happen.

But these are reasons why it's unfair to judge him until he's had one full season at the helm. He will have had time to improve the defence, improve the individuals to suit his system, and bring in players to improve the first XI in key areas.

He probably was not the immediate right fit when you list down on paper everything about him historically and his style, as it will take longer for players to adapt to this - but here we are. Support the bloke.

Given we aren't ever going to be able to compete financially with the bigger clubs and buy the top players, being sides Pep and Klopp are only ever going to be actually capable of managing in their careers - you need someone else that can compete with a less superior side at their disposal but can still win at the top level and has proven to do so.

The Porto and Inter ECL triumphs do prove that, and winning La Liga from Barca @ their best. I strongly recommend you give the Inter 3 - Barca 1 match a view in the ECl. Brilliant watch, seeing how Inter picked Barca off and then defend like warriors.

At Man United, I thought he did a very good job to be honest first two seasons. A comical Phil Jones Chris Smalling pairing that gets a 2nd place finish, FA cup final, a League Cup and a Europa League win, and stuck with the worst team player bar Ozil you can have in Paul Pogba.

Reports had strongly suggested he also didn't have a say in a number of transfers made at Man United, who and how many only they will know. But it sounded like the board blocked most of those he wished for, and brought in some players he didn't even want. So his hands seemed tied, and he was made to work with a squad he didn't really want to have in his third season. This would make sense why it went bad so soon after signing a contract extension.

And in all honesty, if I was offered to extend my contract and then the board chose to not back me in the market a month later - being ambitious and looking to improve the squad / win things, I would have also been cheesed off, and I'm not surprised it went sour after that. False promises.

So his motivation went, and that negativity would have rubbed off on the players which is where it went wrong - but the seed was planted by the United board.

I also thought JM was doing a more than decent job for us prior the injury crisis that hit. If we had everyone fit for that period, along with the VAR decisions that has already stolen at least 4 points from us since the return, I believe we would still be heavily in the mix for an ECL spot after such a points disadvantage when JM joined.

At this point we just need to get everyone fit and fighting in the same direction so we can hopefully see better things next year, and not have the obstacles JM has had to deal with ever since he's been here.

If there is no progression made by end of next season - that's when it's certainly fairer to evaluate things and ask further questions as to whether it requires only a few more additions to fix that can be invested in, or if it is passed that point.

But this job imo is at least a 3 year project to bring us back to consistent top 4 challengers - and that's excluding other factors which may change this dynamic.
Click to expand...

Some good points made mate BUT...it is fcuking shite boring stuff....so meaningless to me as a supporter of Spurs who have had a history of entertaining....not any more - paint drying is more entertaining..at the moment and I see no signs of a new FlLosofy at all!
 
gztar83 said:
There's a lot you are correct with there. You're right with the counter-attacking - and at the moment that's due to the player's fitness, decision making in the final third, and a brand new philosophy for every player to learn and adapt to. all with a greater priority of tightening up the defence first.

The number of times we have the opportunity to break, but the wrong decision is made or a poor quality pass. The counter never gets started and will of course invite more pressure. And that's where the frustration kicks in. It appears like we are playing rubbish, and well we are at this moment - because the players aren't carrying out the game-plan successfully.

We are also lacking the tools to do it, especially without Erikson. And we are suffering from lacking that creator/set piece specialist when in possession too. One man can make a big difference - look at Fernandes at United, effectively their Erikson. United in possession couldn't break low blocks - now they can.

JM is also focusing on getting the defensive structure right. He has said in the past he doesn't want to lose the attacking threat up top - but the injuries forced this upon him. But yes, I do hope we can see some more successful offensive plays and quick transitions on the counter. But he and the players needs time both on the training ground and getting back that fitness / sharpness.

We are starting to see more clean sheets, less rash challenges when teams are playing it around our box notably from Aurier too, and a better ability to keep teams out when under pressure. To me this is a very positive sign and crucial to have in our armoury going forward, but yes the defensive / offensive balance must be addressed as quick and well as possible before we start next year.

However I believe if we can continue to put in good defensive performances until the end of the year irrespective of where we finish, this will undoubtedly bring a different type of confidence to the group never had before, and the forward players will hopefully have more confidence in our back-line and play their part defensively too.

Having more faith in the back-line will also give our forward players more confidence to play a little riskier and with more freedom knowing they have a solid defence behind them.

I am more than certain he'll be trying to train and get the message across to the forward players the importance of being decisive and clinical, but sadly that doesn't mean they have the footballing brain or ability to carry this out. There is only so much the manager can do.

Additionally the players aren't good enough - and assume you agree, as many millions do need to be spent and on top quality, which unfortunately won't happen.

But these are reasons why it's unfair to judge him until he's had one full season at the helm. He will have had time to improve the defence, improve the individuals to suit his system, and bring in players to improve the first XI in key areas.

He probably was not the immediate right fit when you list down on paper everything about him historically and his style, as it will take longer for players to adapt to this - but here we are. Support the bloke.

Given we aren't ever going to be able to compete financially with the bigger clubs and buy the top players, being sides Pep and Klopp are only ever going to be actually capable of managing in their careers - you need someone else that can compete with a less superior side at their disposal but can still win at the top level and has proven to do so.

The Porto and Inter ECL triumphs do prove that, and winning La Liga from Barca @ their best. I strongly recommend you give the Inter 3 - Barca 1 match a view in the ECl. Brilliant watch, seeing how Inter picked Barca off and then defend like warriors.

At Man United, I thought he did a very good job to be honest first two seasons. A comical Phil Jones Chris Smalling pairing that gets a 2nd place finish, FA cup final, a League Cup and a Europa League win, and stuck with the worst team player bar Ozil you can have in Paul Pogba.

Reports had strongly suggested he also didn't have a say in a number of transfers made at Man United, who and how many only they will know. But it sounded like the board blocked most of those he wished for, and brought in some players he didn't even want. So his hands seemed tied, and he was made to work with a squad he didn't really want to have in his third season. This would make sense why it went bad so soon after signing a contract extension.

And in all honesty, if I was offered to extend my contract and then the board chose to not back me in the market a month later - being ambitious and looking to improve the squad / win things, I would have also been cheesed off, and I'm not surprised it went sour after that. False promises.

So his motivation went, and that negativity would have rubbed off on the players which is where it went wrong - but the seed was planted by the United board.

I also thought JM was doing a more than decent job for us prior the injury crisis that hit. If we had everyone fit for that period, along with the VAR decisions that has already stolen at least 4 points from us since the return, I believe we would still be heavily in the mix for an ECL spot after such a points disadvantage when JM joined.

At this point we just need to get everyone fit and fighting in the same direction so we can hopefully see better things next year, and not have the obstacles JM has had to deal with ever since he's been here.

If there is no progression made by end of next season - that's when it's certainly fairer to evaluate things and ask further questions as to whether it requires only a few more additions to fix that can be invested in, or if it is passed that point.

But this job imo is at least a 3 year project to bring us back to consistent top 4 challengers - and that's excluding other factors which may change this dynamic.
Click to expand...
Excellent analysis....just hope people can accept the salient point that we aren’t immediately going to turn into a hugely attractive team to watch while we undergo the transition and that will take time especially given the likely restrictions in the transfer market.....sadly, it doesn’t look like it.
 
gztar83 said:
There's a lot you are correct with there. You're right with the counter-attacking - and at the moment that's due to the player's fitness, decision making in the final third, and a brand new philosophy for every player to learn and adapt to. all with a greater priority of tightening up the defence first.

The number of times we have the opportunity to break, but the wrong decision is made or a poor quality pass. The counter never gets started and will of course invite more pressure. And that's where the frustration kicks in. It appears like we are playing rubbish, and well we are at this moment - because the players aren't carrying out the game-plan successfully.

We are also lacking the tools to do it, especially without Erikson. And we are suffering from lacking that creator/set piece specialist when in possession too. One man can make a big difference - look at Fernandes at United, effectively their Erikson. United in possession couldn't break low blocks - now they can.

JM is also focusing on getting the defensive structure right. He has said in the past he doesn't want to lose the attacking threat up top - but the injuries forced this upon him. But yes, I do hope we can see some more successful offensive plays and quick transitions on the counter. But he and the players needs time both on the training ground and getting back that fitness / sharpness.

We are starting to see more clean sheets, less rash challenges when teams are playing it around our box notably from Aurier too, and a better ability to keep teams out when under pressure. To me this is a very positive sign and crucial to have in our armoury going forward, but yes the defensive / offensive balance must be addressed as quick and well as possible before we start next year.

However I believe if we can continue to put in good defensive performances until the end of the year irrespective of where we finish, this will undoubtedly bring a different type of confidence to the group never had before, and the forward players will hopefully have more confidence in our back-line and play their part defensively too.

Having more faith in the back-line will also give our forward players more confidence to play a little riskier and with more freedom knowing they have a solid defence behind them.

I am more than certain he'll be trying to train and get the message across to the forward players the importance of being decisive and clinical, but sadly that doesn't mean they have the footballing brain or ability to carry this out. There is only so much the manager can do.

Additionally the players aren't good enough - and assume you agree, as many millions do need to be spent and on top quality, which unfortunately won't happen.

But these are reasons why it's unfair to judge him until he's had one full season at the helm. He will have had time to improve the defence, improve the individuals to suit his system, and bring in players to improve the first XI in key areas.

He probably was not the immediate right fit when you list down on paper everything about him historically and his style, as it will take longer for players to adapt to this - but here we are. Support the bloke.

Given we aren't ever going to be able to compete financially with the bigger clubs and buy the top players, being sides Pep and Klopp are only ever going to be actually capable of managing in their careers - you need someone else that can compete with a less superior side at their disposal but can still win at the top level and has proven to do so.

The Porto and Inter ECL triumphs do prove that, and winning La Liga from Barca @ their best. I strongly recommend you give the Inter 3 - Barca 1 match a view in the ECl. Brilliant watch, seeing how Inter picked Barca off and then defend like warriors.

At Man United, I thought he did a very good job to be honest first two seasons. A comical Phil Jones Chris Smalling pairing that gets a 2nd place finish, FA cup final, a League Cup and a Europa League win, and stuck with the worst team player bar Ozil you can have in Paul Pogba.

Reports had strongly suggested he also didn't have a say in a number of transfers made at Man United, who and how many only they will know. But it sounded like the board blocked most of those he wished for, and brought in some players he didn't even want. So his hands seemed tied, and he was made to work with a squad he didn't really want to have in his third season. This would make sense why it went bad so soon after signing a contract extension.

And in all honesty, if I was offered to extend my contract and then the board chose to not back me in the market a month later - being ambitious and looking to improve the squad / win things, I would have also been cheesed off, and I'm not surprised it went sour after that. False promises.

So his motivation went, and that negativity would have rubbed off on the players which is where it went wrong - but the seed was planted by the United board.

I also thought JM was doing a more than decent job for us prior the injury crisis that hit. If we had everyone fit for that period, along with the VAR decisions that has already stolen at least 4 points from us since the return, I believe we would still be heavily in the mix for an ECL spot after such a points disadvantage when JM joined.

At this point we just need to get everyone fit and fighting in the same direction so we can hopefully see better things next year, and not have the obstacles JM has had to deal with ever since he's been here.

If there is no progression made by end of next season - that's when it's certainly fairer to evaluate things and ask further questions as to whether it requires only a few more additions to fix that can be invested in, or if it is passed that point.

But this job imo is at least a 3 year project to bring us back to consistent top 4 challengers - and that's excluding other factors which may change this dynamic.
Click to expand...

I glad you have faith because I have none.He won in Spain because he already had a fantastic squad and the best striker in world football plus a huge budget to go with that.For the first season Barca were not used to his brand of football by the second season they had worked it out and so had others and he finished miles behind Barca.
I have watched the game you mentioned and yes his tactics were okay but again he also had a fantastic team.
We have to disagree about him doing a good job before the injuries we had a nice run but as soon as we come up against a decent team we lost.Our football was dire.We were conceding lots of goals.He has managed to get us knocked out of 2 cups.He has had a long time on the training ground before restart with a full squad and we look worse than ever.The only team who looks as bad as us is Norwich.Yes we have kept clean sheets you say it's good defending I say it's thank God for Hugo.If it was not for him we would have lost all but the Everton game.
I am glad you have faith in him but unfortunately no do not I have watched players who have over performed for a few seasons now look a shadow of themselves.He has turned our 200 million pound striker into a 30 million pound player.Same with Son.
Most of all though I just do not like a man who would take his own failings out on a woman trying to do her job.When chips are down he starts taking it out at anyone but himself.Yet he is always quick to point out what he won not the team him.The one against De Boer when De Boer was asked a question about Rashford I think and he thought that Jose could handle Him better.Jose came out swinging I have won this how much has he won as a manager.Forgeting what a great player he was just called him a rubbish manager.Classy
 
Spurs1569 said:
I glad you have faith because I have none.He won in Spain because he already had a fantastic squad and the best striker in world football plus a huge budget to go with that.For the first season Barca were not used to his brand of football by the second season they had worked it out and so had others and he finished miles behind Barca.
I have watched the game you mentioned and yes his tactics were okay but again he also had a fantastic team.
We have to disagree about him doing a good job before the injuries we had a nice run but as soon as we come up against a decent team we lost.Our football was dire.We were conceding lots of goals.He has managed to get us knocked out of 2 cups.He has had a long time on the training ground before restart with a full squad and we look worse than ever.The only team who looks as bad as us is Norwich.Yes we have kept clean sheets you say it's good defending I say it's thank God for Hugo.If it was not for him we would have lost all but the Everton game.
I am glad you have faith in him but unfortunately no do not I have watched players who have over performed for a few seasons now look a shadow of themselves.He has turned our 200 million pound striker into a 30 million pound player.Same with Son.
Most of all though I just do not like a man who would take his own failings out on a woman trying to do her job.When chips are down he starts taking it out at anyone but himself.Yet he is always quick to point out what he won not the team him.The one against De Boer when De Boer was asked a question about Rashford I think and he thought that Jose could handle Him better.Jose came out swinging I have won this how much has he won as a manager.Forgeting what a great player he was just called him a rubbish manager.Classy
Click to expand...
Apart from your repetitive narrative about the failings of Jose, assuming you get your wish and he goes, what practical steps would follow such a move....who is on your list of modern, progressive managers would you recruit to turn this group of players into a competitive team once again bearing in mind that transfer money will be very limited for the foreseeable future.

Also you only have to look at Norwich to see what happens when you try to play football like Man City without top class players whereas Sheffield Utd play a Mourinho style of football and are very successful with what most would say is a very average EPL playing squad.
 
Harry-Kari said:
Apart from your repetitive narrative about the failings of Jose, assuming you get your wish and he goes, what practical steps would follow such a move....who is on your list of modern, progressive managers would you recruit to turn this group of players into a competitive team once again bearing in mind that transfer money will be very limited for the foreseeable future.

Also you only have to look at Norwich to see what happens when you try to play football like Man City without top class players whereas Sheffield Utd play a Mourinho style of football and are very successful with what most would say is a very average EPL playing squad.
Click to expand...

The Sheffield United boys give 100% though and are very well organized and everyone knows their jobs.

I have seen the odd game where I could see what Jose's long term philosophy would be. I'm not sure the players want to play that way.

With Jose constantly blaming naming and shaming certain players I think most have had enough of him. EX has confirmed the players are not happy with him and I think it has shown in most games under his leadership.

I actually like counter attacking football. But with it there is still a touch of class. The United team of the 90's was great to watch.
 
Real Deal said:
The Sheffield United boys give 100% though and are very well organized and everyone knows their jobs.

I have seen the odd game where I could see what Jose's long term philosophy would be. I'm not sure the players want to play that way.

With Jose constantly blaming naming and shaming certain players I think most have had enough of him. EX has confirmed the players are not happy with him and I think it has shown in most games under his leadership.

I actually like counter attacking football. But with it there is still a touch of class. The United team of the 90's was great to watch.
Click to expand...
There are some unsubstantiated rumours about the players being unhappy...the source for EXs info was an agent probably looking for a big payday if he can get one....given that some players want to abandon what they see as the ongoing Levy run sinking ship while they still might be able to attach themselves to bigger clubs...in reality this is a very small number of potential players in this group that agents would be able to get a payday for ...it’s easy to float rumours which quickly become other people’s facts....in any event if there are unhappy players then get rid because it will be the same whichever manager arrives....this bunch need culling and reorganising into a single view of how we are going to play and then get on with it.
 
Greavswasthegreatest said:
We fans pay to be entertained don't we....a lot of clubs manage this but it seems we cannot do so.....win and win well ...mmmmmmmm
Click to expand...
It’s just not that easy....the well known statement of “ If you want to get there I wouldn’t start from here” applies....Poch and Levy left a mess behind, followed by our main strike force being wiped out with injuries and now Covid has exposed the high risk financial strategy of the new stadium which ok no one would have foreseen but it shows what can happen if you put the cart before the horse and don’t create a strong successful football squad before you give them a new stadium to play in...it’s happened to a number of clubs in the past eg:Sunderland and now it’s our turn..

On the win and win well front while keeping fans happy, the notion that we should take this group of players and have them playing in the style of City or Barcelona is exposed by two things....one is just look at Norwich and Brighton....they try to play like that and lose far more than they win because secondly as Pep admitted in an interview earlier this year, his team couldn’t play the way it does without having the very best players available to him.

I remember a couple of seasons when we played a City, I was quite certain that we should have gone toe-to-toe with them instead of sitting back and waiting to get beaten...I Remember EX saying that would be suicide and defending Poch’s park the bus and counter approach...I was wrong and they were right and in last season’s CL games so it proved...2-0 up from counter attacking football...ok bad defending let them back in the game, but the tactics were right....

Currently, City are struggling to score goals against defensive teams...they scored at will against Brighton who tried to play an open game but do not have the same quality of players....one pundit observed recently that Liverpool play the same way as Sheffield United but have better players all over the field and it’s true...tactics can get you a long way but when you have a mismatch in quality, 9 times out of 10, the better players win.

So what right now would keep our fans happy....fre flowing football scoring loads of goals and winning in style...yes, wouldn’t we all, but does anyone think we have the players to do that at the moment...I don’t....I do believe the defensive ethic of the team has improved over the last few weeks but we still do not have an effective MF when it comes to fast transitions in support of counter attacks and nothing to offer in the final third when we get there, and a lot of the reason for that is the basic inability of players to do their jobs properly...

So, you are the manager, what are you going to do...play Ozzie style and get well and truly stuffed or try to make the defensive/counter attack approach work...or some other fantasy dream system in between?

I expect us to be pounded this afternoon and having to defend for our lives until late in the game....I expect Jose to be using this game to try to further cement his ideas into the squad and use the game largely as a practical training session on how to play against progressive football teams...I also expect us to lose but for once it won’t bother me because it won’t be down to the manager, it’s all down to how the club has been run for the last 20+ years and it’s going to take grit and determination to improve our way out of it.
 
Real Deal said:
The Sheffield United boys give 100% though and are very well organized and everyone knows their jobs.

I have seen the odd game where I could see what Jose's long term philosophy would be. I'm not sure the players want to play that way.

With Jose constantly blaming naming and shaming certain players I think most have had enough of him. EX has confirmed the players are not happy with him and I think it has shown in most games under his leadership.

I actually like counter attacking football. But with it there is still a touch of class. The United team of the 90's was great to watch.
Click to expand...

I actually disagree in a couple of big areas there. The first is about the "blaming, naming and shaming" comment. When you think back there's perhaps been Smalling, Shaw and Ndombele that have been called out. When you look closely, Jose is full of superlatives for his players but the press don't want to talk about it. He's done it again this last week when comparing Ndombele to Modric. The idiots in the press didn't even want to barely write about it. Ditto with some of the tough questions Jose faces e.g. Sess or Dele. He always builds them up and talks about their talents. He always calls his whole squad heroes.

The second is "Ex has confirmed the players are not happy". So the same set of precious players that downed tools for one manager are allowed to be upset with this one. Do I care? Probably the least amount of professionalism I have seen for a long time at any football club in a 2 year demise. How can it possibly be the players? Do they realise that except for 5 or 6 of them, nobody actually cares what they think anymore as they have lost all credibility with the fans and the wider football community anyway?

I would happily tell the players as a lifelong Spurs fan going into a NLD that this manager is going nowhere and every one of them that don't want to be here can consider playing elsewhere. They can get their heads around having a lower career wealth and even if they do find a "bigger club", they probably won't play that much football. They can also be told that I will give them my market value and their agents can go and find 10% above it before I even answer my phone.

Can you imagine having to have this conversation about guys like Perryman, Roberts and Mabbutt?
 
I fear a hammering today,they have hit a bit of form while we have stagnated. I wouldn't watch it but I'm meeting my Brother and his gooner mate,it was arranged a while ago so I cant lose face in front of my little Bro. Its going to be a long afternoon but plenty of Guinness will help numb the experience.
 
Regarding the "apparent" unhappiness of the players with Jose: Sissoko was interviewed this week and he talked about how he was trying to help Ndombele settle into his new club and environment.

In the course of that interview he said this about Jose " “He was close to me, asking me a lot of things each day, if I feel better, if I need something to improve my recovery time,” he said. “It was good, even if I wasn’t on the pitch, he was still close to me. That gives you a good push to try to recover as soon as possible. It means that the manager cares.”
 
Harry-Kari said:
On the win and win well front while keeping fans happy, the notion that we should take this group of players and have them playing in the style of City or Barcelona is exposed by two things....one is just look at Norwich and Brighton....they try to play like that and lose far more than they win because secondly as Pep admitted in an interview earlier this year, his team couldn’t play the way it does without having the very best players available to him.

I remember a couple of seasons when we played a City, I was quite certain that we should have gone toe-to-toe with them instead of sitting back and waiting to get beaten...I Remember EX saying that would be suicide and defending Poch’s park the bus and counter approach...I was wrong and they were right and in last season’s CL games so it proved...2-0 up from counter attacking football...ok bad defending let them back in the game, but the tactics were right....

So what right now would keep our fans happy....fre flowing football scoring loads of goals and winning in style...yes, wouldn’t we all, but does anyone think we have the players to do that at the moment...I don’t....I do believe the defensive ethic of the team has improved over the last few weeks but we still do not have an effective MF when it comes to fast transitions in support of counter attacks and nothing to offer in the final third when we get there, and a lot of the reason for that is the basic inability of players to do their jobs properly...

So, you are the manager, what are you going to do...play Ozzie style and get well and truly stuffed or try to make the defensive/counter attack approach work...or some other fantasy dream system in between?
Click to expand...
I think that most of us would happily settle at this point in time Harry, for a scenario somewhere between the two extremes of negative football, and overly extravagant football. If Mourinho was manager of Villa, Watford or Palace his approach would be more understandable insofar as these teams have little attacking prowess. Arguably however our best assets are our attacking players, whereby the current approach just doesn't seem to make sense. It is claimed regularly that our full backs are rubbish, our centre backs are inconsistent and in some cases have not fulfilled their potential, and that Winks and Sissoko ahead of them are at best pretty average.
Why then not try and play to a system that doesn't negate our strengths.
I can probably answer my own question insofar as I've stated regularly recently that our biggest weakness since the decline of Eriksen is the lack of a midfield play maker who can provide the service, and bring out the best in our front men. Although I don't think that he has been a bad signing, Lo Celso certainly hasn't filled that void.
In summary, although it may not please all, a more direct approach would I believe be more entertaining, would be more likely to bring out the best in our front men, and would I believe see us winning games that currently are being drawn and sometimes lost.
 
Anything can happen in 90 mins, so I am with you hoping for our faith being restored.

Can we win today....Yes! hopefully
Will we win today....Not sure! but hopeful.

As EX says...whatever happens...COYS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.