Tottenham Hotspur vs AFC Ajax (de Godenzonen)

[Walthamstow wanderer]

Walthamstow if you look at the reports in the telegraph it's the stadium build mate we are skint and the sqauds has suffered.

So levy has lied to us . And continues to lie . We were told just the opposite, constantly .
I can understand that if people are upfront and honest . There is nothing wrong in honesty , no matter how much it hurts .
thanks Don

 

[Spursex]

I really really hope we haven’t seen the fruits of it yet !
It just seems so wrong that we haven’t identified players of the right level whilst we continue through two transfer windows, equating to eighteen months , of playing players that are not up to the right level.

Just remember he's the man who identified Modders for us - a player that every top club in the PL looked and and dismissed as 'too small and lightweight' and who actually had to fight to convince our manager at the time and our chairman that he was right:


"With all the turbulence and upheaval surrounding Spurs' scouting system, they will be counting on Hitchen, who has specialist knowledge in European football, to slot seamlessly back into life at White Hart Lane. He first arrived at the club in 2005 and departed in 2010. His most notable action during that time was identifying Luka Modric, then of Dinamo Zagreb, and pushing Tottenham to part with £17m to sign him. The Croatian is now one of the best midfielders in the world and a two-time Champions League winner."


I am biased; I know Steve and he is in my opinion, if not the most knowledgeable, one of the top English EPL scouts who knows and has direct contacts with some of the best in Europe. His ability assess the strengths of players is legendary and almost uncanny - we were stupid to let him go the last time.

He did a fantastic job for Liverpool when he was asked to identify 'bigger ticket' players (because they could afford it).....and I'm pretty confident he won't be recommending endless N'ggggggggg's for us to sign and waste money on.

We can't judge him yet, as we've yet to see who he's come up with, but of we do manage to get them over the line, I'm betting I'll be feeling pretty happy with the money we do spend.

 

[Spursex]

I really appreciate your replies and input in this Ex, but a squad is there for a reason and ours has been highlighted in many media platforms for a long while as being lightweight, so I guess we all have only Poch to blame .

It's soooo funny, for ages here we had loads saying we had great strength in depth and so had no excuses - I completely disagreed and still do.

 

[muttley]

I have no problem with our main targets being De Ligt, De Jong or any other player at this level. I think my concern though is that we're not being aggressive enough in the early exchanges. It just feels like by the time we're engaged, we don't have the gravitas to stave off the biggest clubs in the world. When you consider our best signings like Berbatov, Modric, Eriksen, Bale, Carrick, Dele, Walker, Vertonghen etc we stole a march on the other clubs and got in early. Yes, there was competition. We did an amazing job keeping Bale away from Fergie. Ditto Dele with Liverpool. For me, that has to be our template. Being brave is going in as early as we can and even over paying to land the player. Most of these players are probably on every clubs radar, so it's that aggression and commitment that can make the difference.

With some of the names that I have been reading about for 2 or 3 windows, I don't actually hold out much hope. It's just not Spurs landing these types of players (De Ligt, NDombele, Neves etc). There will be more coming through behind them that we may be better focusing on.

 

[Spursex]

I have no problem with our main targets being De Ligt, De Jong or any other player at this level. I think my concern though is that we're not being aggressive enough in the early exchanges. It just feels like by the time we're engaged, we don't have the gravitas to stave off the biggest clubs in the world. When you consider our best signings like Berbatov, Modric, Eriksen, Bale, Carrick, Dele, Walker, Vertonghen etc we stole a march on the other clubs and got in early. Yes, there was competition. We did an amazing job keeping Bale away from Fergie. Ditto Dele with Liverpool. For me, that has to be our template. Being brave is going in as early as we can and even over paying to land the player. Most of these players are probably on every clubs radar, so it's that aggression and commitment that can make the difference.

With some of the names that I have been reading about for 2 or 3 windows, I don't actually hold out much hope. It's just not Spurs landing these types of players (De Ligt, NDombele, Neves etc). There will be more coming through behind them that we may be better focusing on.

I can't comment on 'not being aggressive enough on early exchanges' as there's no evidence to support that statement either way that I can see in the public domain.

It's true we didn't have the gravitas to stave off the biggest clubs in the World, but successful CL finishes and our new stadium is changing that perception; but Rome wasn't made in a day and I still think that it will take 2-4 years to see the bottom line benefit of it all in both in our ability to win 'mindspace' with top players, agents and their families and personal sponsors (all CRITICAL components in getting a deal over the line).

I think we lost our way under Mitchell in terms of securing young talent (another reason he left); I suspect it may take us a year or two to turn that around.

As for the definition of 'bravery' = looks great when they work out and makes us look stupid when it doesn't ( N'gggggs we brought in France were all highlighted in their top 10 next famous products to be produced list!)..

Signing young players seems so simple and straight forward, but it really isn't.

I'm optimistic the additions we might make could have an instant impact.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[muttley]

As for the injuries, here's what we did know going into the season:

Dier, Kane, Dele, Trips, Jan, Toby, Dembele, Lloris were all in Moscow the last weekend of the WC.

We had 2 Rolls Royce centre halves coming to the twilight of their careers. Both stalwarts had missed chunks of the last 2 or 3 seasons.

Wanyama, Rose, Lamela, Aurier, Winks, Dembele weren't showing the robustness required based on a couple of years of data.

Son was bouncing from one international competition to the next and pounding out games for his club.

Janssen had a couple of bad injuries and Llorente was 33. Kane's backup options were thin at best.

Where I would say we were unlucky was losing Amos for the season. Most teams always have someone though. Liverpool had Ox whilst Arsenal eventually lost Bellerin. Chelsea had van Ginkel whilst De Bruyne has missed a load of football this season whilst Gundogan missed a load in the prior season.

For me, I still struggle with the concept that we were "unlucky" with injuries. Actually, what was more the case was that in order to break even we actually needed to be "lucky" with the fitness of our squad. We weren't.

 

[muttley]

I can't comment on 'not being aggressive enough on early exchanges' as there's no evidence to support that statement either way that I can see in the public domain.

It's true we didn't have the gravitas to stave off the biggest clubs in the World, but successful CL finishes and our new stadium is changing that perception; but Rome wasn't made it a day and I still think that it will take 2-4 years to see the bottom line benefit of it all in both our ability to win 'mindspace' with top players, agents and their families and personal sponsors (all CRITICAL components in getting a deal over the line).

I think we lost our way under Mitchell in terms of securing young talent (another reason he left); I suspect it may take us a year or two to turn that around.

As for the definition of 'bravery' = looks great when they work out and makes us look stupid when it doesn't ( N'gggggs we brough in France were all highlighted in their top 10 next famous products to be produced list!)..

Signing young players seems so simple and straight forward, but it really isn't.

I'm optimistic the additions we might make could have an instant impact.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

BTW, not saying any of us should know whether we are aggressive enough in the early exchanges. It's more of a feeling I get. Just always get the feeling that there's some procrastination going on in the way we interact. Then you see really good players go 2 or 3 transfer windows and don't move and then move to a big club.

I hope we can keep Hitchen. Always possible that someone like De Jong was probably on our radar 2 years ago but in the recruitment handover process we never acted. We clearly did in the end as the player admitted that himself, but what may have happened if we'd been aggressive when he was 19 or 20. He's 22 in a few days.

That's what I'm looking for and as fans we have to forgive the failures if the intent is correct. When you think about it, the failures are more when we shift to the second tier of players rather than go after an Eriksen. Lamela unfortunately is probably the exception as to be fair we were aggressive and got our man. Not normal times though, we had the Bale money in our hands and didn't know that it would be injuries, not talent, that hampered his development.

 

[Spursex]

BTW, not saying any of us should know whether we are aggressive enough in the early exchanges. It's more of a feeling I get. Just always get the feeling that there's some procrastination going on in the way we interact. Then you see really good players go 2 or 3 transfer windows and don't move and then move to a big club.

I hope we can keep Hitchen. Always possible that someone like De Jong was probably on our radar 2 years ago but in the recruitment handover process we never acted. We clearly did in the end as the player admitted that himself, but what may have happened if we'd been aggressive when he was 19 or 20. He's 22 in a few days.

That's what I'm looking for and as fans we have to forgive the failures if the intent is correct. When you think about it, the failures are more when we shift to the second tier of players rather than go after an Eriksen. Lamela unfortunately is probably the exception as to be fair we were aggressive and got our man. Not normal times though, we had the Bale money in our hands and didn't know that it would be injuries, not talent, that hampered his development.

There are many European/world player databases we subscribe to; we send scouts to all the minor/major football tournaments for youngsters from 11 upwards!

That brings most promising talent to the scouts eyes and of course we get lots of recommendations from coaches/managers/teachers/local league scouts etc etc - but there is a limit to how much you can do in these area's and as youngsters start making an impact the risk reward ratio's come to the fore, it gets more complicated when all the Top European clubs bend/break the rules and often become repeat offenders - until recently the action taken by the governing body in europe has been almost a joke; but the way they've come down on the Chav's *might* finally change that - but somehow I doubt it.

The dubious practices that these clubs indulge in is legendary in agents circles.

As for the rest, it's all about personal perception, sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't.

 

[RAMBR0-1]

I'm not sure Poch knows his arse from his elbow.
Definitely not a Sissoko knocker. I love his new found confidence and energy. Just disappointed Poch had no idea how to bring out his best and to get into his head shortly after signing him to mentally prepare Mousa for his role. Far too many months wasted.

Ajax are a talented team.......then what the f**k are we? No excuses for not beating them....only reasons. Reason that run deep into the bowels of what is wrong with Spurs right now.

let's just say we are reaping what we've sowed.....to a degree, yet have surprised many with how much we've achieved with so little.

Appreciate and get your point...cheers!

 

[Spursex]

In the first half we stood off, gave them space and almost watched them play, we didn't press, we didn't close - in fact all the attributes that have chracterised our better performances simply and inexplicably were absent.

The second half performance was a World away from the first half, but much of that might have been due to Ajax holding on to what they had.

That said, the second leg is going to be an all -out affair, and it's one I think with the right approach the best starting 11 we can muster, we can still beat them and win through.

Play, post, repeat...