THST Film Message... | Vital Football

THST Film Message...

SpursEagle

Vital Squad Member
#2
David Lammy can fuck right off for starters.

This message is naive and unrealistic not because of who our owners are now, but because fan representation on the board is a pipe dream, no matter who owns the club. I agree that the club should prioritise building the team on the pitch, but how can you do that while representing profits off the pitch as negligible. Unless you are State funded or oil/tech rich, these two aspects go hand in glove. Its symbiotic.

Are these fans going to put their hands in their pockets, not just buying merchandise, but to pay the exorbitant transfer fees, players wages and agents' cuts? Who decides whether this self appointed organisation speaks with one voice for all the fans? As much as I yearn for change at the club, these people are not the answer, and neither is this saccharin sweet message.
 
#4
David Lammy can fuck right off for starters.

This message is naive and unrealistic not because of who our owners are now, but because fan representation on the board is a pipe dream, no matter who owns the club. I agree that the club should prioritise building the team on the pitch, but how can you do that while representing profits off the pitch as negligible. Unless you are State funded or oil/tech rich, these two aspects go hand in glove. Its symbiotic.

Are these fans going to put their hands in their pockets, not just buying merchandise, but to pay the exorbitant transfer fees, players wages and agents' cuts? Who decides whether this self-appointed organisation speaks with one voice for all the fans? As much as I yearn for change at the club, these people are not the answer, and neither is this saccharin sweet message.
Wholeheartedly agree, the video was so childish you can just hear them chattering ' let's be cool, let's make a video, let's waste some money and show that we're the go-to for supporters'...I almost puked watching this.

It's a business where money has been both king and queen for decades now and it's been bought lock stock and barrel by billionaires who dwarf our billionaire.

Our only way to win titles and silverware is to build a cash generation engine that can out-manufacture cash to invest in players; and we have it now, we have a stadium that is capable of doing just that - but we all know that covid has blown the plan off-course.

Now, all we can really do is be patient or as some are pray for new owners who will invest a billion or two so that we can compete.
 

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
#5
it was actually quite well put together and I don't disagree with some of the sentiments but although I know football is the biggest obsession for most of us there's something about putting that on film as fans that's embarrassing.

It felt like an NSPCC appeal not some disgruntled fans complaining about decisions they'll never have a say in.
 
#7
"There has been a football brain missing from the heart of this club"

Taking away all biases towards or against THST, those words resonated with me.
That's a double edged sword for; too often over the last 20 years, these football brains have ignored the financial reality and run some clubs into the ground or virtually bankrupt them only for the circle to be repeated by the next set of owners who put their investment into the hands of 'football brains'...

We need to simply find a sensible balance, and yes that does mean Levy fully recognising that, but so do the fans who simply don't seem to compute what the competitive edge our peers have over us often, but not always, comes down to cash generation - over decades.
 

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
#8
I guess one of the biggest problems the supporters trust have is the fans are rarely fully united on an issue.

I see the biggest divide nowadays is one that can't be closed with dialog, either by the board or the trust.

The two main factions are

fans who believe that football clubs should just be billionaire's play things, don't care about sustainability and think any club who can't win a trophy has no reason to exist

and the fans who believe that money is ruining the game and that a sustainable approach to moving up the table and raising revenues to compete for top honours in time is worth waiting for.

Some people swing from one to other of those beliefs. Some have given up on the latter and now think fuck it. Some want football to eat itself and start over.

So how can 1 fan on the board represent all that?
 
#9
I guess one of the biggest problems the supporters trust have is the fans are rarely fully united on an issue.

I see the biggest divide nowadays is one that can't be closed with dialog, either by the board or the trust.

The two main factions are

fans who believe that football clubs should just be billionaire's play things, don't care about sustainability and think any club who can't win a trophy has no reason to exist

and the fans who believe that money is ruining the game and that a sustainable approach to moving up the table and raising revenues to compete for top honours in time is worth waiting for.

Some people swing from one to other of those beliefs. Some have given up on the latter and now think fuck it. Some want football to eat itself and start over.

So how can 1 fan on the board represent all that?

It can't. But there are two real issues. Fans adapting to the change in sports in general. The corporatization/securitization of sports.

The second issue is the biggest. The fans who go to the games, of which the Trust is almost entirely made up of, still thinking they are the main, biggest, and most important people to the team. They aren't. The TV rights owners are the proxy for the most important fans. It's a numbers game. Everyone knows when you reach Spurs level if you give up your season ticket in protest there will be someone to take your place in a second. In stadium fans are dispensable and easily replaceable. And they are railing against it. They can't handle it. But it is true.
 

Gary Onedaysoon

*Prediction Champion 20/21*
#10
It can't. But there are two real issues. Fans adapting to the change in sports in general. The corporatization/securitization of sports.

The second issue is the biggest. The fans who go to the games, of which the Trust is almost entirely made up of, still thinking they are the main, biggest, and most important people to the team. They aren't. The TV rights owners are the proxy for the most important fans. It's a numbers game. Everyone knows when you reach Spurs level if you give up your season ticket in protest there will be someone to take your place in a second. In stadium fans are dispensable and easily replaceable. And they are railing against it. They can't handle it. But it is true.
Just out of interest: if the in-stadium fans feel so strongly about an issue(s) that they are willing to give up their season tickets, why wouldn't those on the waiting list feel the same?
 
#11
If Levy communicates with the fans about important issues regarding the club I'm sure most will accept that.

1. Honesty and communication.
2. Levy step aside from making football decisions. Like transfer negotiations.
3. Pick a manager that likes to play attacking aggressive football. ( our motto is todareistodo ).
4. Buy the best young talent around.
5. Invest heavily in coaches that understand the importance of our youth academy.

It's not that difficult.
 
#12
Just out of interest: if the in-stadium fans feel so strongly about an issue(s) that they are willing to give up their season tickets, why wouldn't those on the waiting list feel the same?

I am not saying they wouldn't. I am just saying the in stadium fans seem to think they have an overabundance of influence when they don't.

At least they won't unless TV revenues drop significantly.
 

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
#13
Just out of interest: if the in-stadium fans feel so strongly about an issue(s) that they are willing to give up their season tickets, why wouldn't those on the waiting list feel the same?
Demand always outweighed the grumbles. But I think the fact they went down to the bottom of the ST waiting list when we moved into Wembley shows that can change in an instant.

The impact of covid might mean STs have a lot less uptake than anticipated as
- a lot of fans are in a worse financial position
- Spurs aren't as good as we were pre covid so even less justifiable being most expensive tickets in the country
- A lot of people still aren't comfortable committing to large attendance events while variants & etc are still being talked about
 

spurs1954

Vital Reserves Team
#14
I am not saying they wouldn't. I am just saying the in stadium fans seem to think they have an overabundance of influence when they don't.

At least they won't unless TV revenues drop significantly.
Fully respect what you say 80 but from my understanding of Ex’s in stadium revenue projections these would have been sufficient to move us forward to being able to properly compete with the oil barons/ government owners and Russian crooks. This does not completely correlate with dependence on TV revenues. Maybe the in stadium fans generating significant match day revenues are likely to have more influence than one might think in the future although I can’t help but feel the Board would only pay lip service to fan representation.
 
#15
Fully respect what you say 80 but from my understanding of Ex’s in stadium revenue projections these would have been sufficient to move us forward to being able to properly compete with the oil barons/ government owners and Russian crooks. This does not completely correlate with dependence on TV revenues. Maybe the in stadium fans generating significant match day revenues are likely to have more influence than one might think in the future although I can’t help but feel the Board would only pay lip service to fan representation.
The reality of bums on seats in our new stadium is that around 20% of the attendees (the hospitality premium seating ones) who are roughly 15-20% of the bums on seats account for nigh on 60% of match day revenues, if not more.

The average fan is on many respects a loss leader, so who do you appoint an 'average' fan or someone who is a fan but has a deeper understanding of business/finance/marketing/PR who will be more in tune with the boards bigger financial goals for the club - if so, is that a representative voice of the fans?
 

spurs1954

Vital Reserves Team
#16
The reality of bums on seats in our new stadium is that around 20% of the attendees (the hospitality premium seating ones) who are roughly 15-20% of the bums on seats account for nigh on 60% of match day revenues, if not more.

The average fan is on many respects a loss leader, so who do you appoint an 'average' fan or someone who is a fan but has a deeper understanding of business/finance/marketing/PR who will be more in tune with the boards bigger financial goals for the club - if so, is that a representative voice of the fans?
I do understand the conundrum Ex! It makes no sense to me to have a pure fan on the board that has no comprehension of the overall business modelling and strategy. Similarly if it is to be someone with the necessary business acumen who is also a fan I suspect the business aspect will be too ingrained for the fan representation to mean as much as it should. As you infer and in my words quite a conundrum! The business man/fan that can drive a balanced middle ground may fall between both stools, if one can be found that wants the role. This would then largely render his appointment worthless.
 
#17
The element that I find both naive and laughable is that people honestly believe that by stamping their feet, Levy and Lewis will honestly agree to sell up/remove themselves from footballing decisions/drastically change internal structures. The amount of pressure required to gain that is immense and unlikely to happen.
Does anyone think Robert Dyson, Bill Gates or any other billionaire would agree to reduce their involvement in the business they have bought? Not a chance. If we take our rose tinted Spurs glasses off, would we agree to those demands? Not a chance!
Money makes the football world go around, always has. Before City and Chelsea takeovers you had Man Utd hoovering up the top talent from their main rivals as they had the most money. Building our infrastructure will eventually bring a level of parity but that’s still some way off I think
 

SpursEagle

Vital Squad Member
#18
Wholeheartedly agree, the video was so childish you can just hear them chattering ' let's be cool, let's make a video, let's waste some money and show that we're the go-to for supporters'...I almost puked watching this.

It's a business where money has been both king and queen for decades now and it's been bought lock stock and barrel by billionaires who dwarf our billionaire.

Our only way to win titles and silverware is to build a cash generation engine that can out-manufacture cash to invest in players; and we have it now, we have a stadium that is capable of doing just that - but we all know that covid has blown the plan off-course.

Now, all we can really do is be patient or as some are pray for new owners who will invest a billion or two so that we can compete.
Yep, this kinda bullshit is widespread, its Media Manipulation 101. The kind of thing that Twitter wankers and the main stream media lap up and self flaggellate over. Like you, I found it vomit inducing, and when Mr Lammy, MP, delivered the line, ' ... representation on the board, with genuine power,' I almost tossed my laptop out the window.

If you suggested to us, EX, that we make a message to the club via a short video and this was the final result, I'd threaten you with a litigation and possibly actual bodily harm if you refused to withdraw my contribution. Seriously, how many of us would waste our time producing this shit? It's virtue signalling, style over substance. Take your pick because beneath its throwaway lines and unrealistic demands, it actually says nothing.

Now, just because I think this, doesn't mean I'm happy with ENIC and Levy. I'm actually done with them, and like you, Ex, I'm now waiting for this club to be sold, hopefully to owners that are willing to have a go within the boundaries of sanity.

We as fans already have enough power. We don't need to share the rare air of the THFC boardroom. We can talk directly to them with our actions.

Don't buy the new gimmick "100 years of our badge" shirt. In fact, stop buying anything from the club. Don't renew your season tickets. Boycott the club financially until they either put their hand in their pocket or sell up.

But please, THST, stop bullshitting your fellow Yids with this embarrassing nonsense.
 
#19
Yep, this kinda bullshit is widespread, its Media Manipulation 101. The kind of thing that Twitter wankers and the main stream media lap up and self flaggellate over. Like you, I found it vomit inducing, and when Mr Lammy, MP, delivered the line, ' ... representation on the board, with genuine power,' I almost tossed my laptop out the window.

If you suggested to us, EX, that we make a message to the club via a short video and this was the final result, I'd threaten you with a litigation and possibly actual bodily harm if you refused to withdraw my contribution. Seriously, how many of us would waste our time producing this shit? It's virtue signalling, style over substance. Take your pick because beneath its throwaway lines and unrealistic demands, it actually says nothing.

Now, just because I think this, doesn't mean I'm happy with ENIC and Levy. I'm actually done with them, and like you, Ex, I'm now waiting for this club to be sold, hopefully to owners that are willing to have a go within the boundaries of sanity.

We as fans already have enough power. We don't need to share the rare air of the THFC boardroom. We can talk directly to them with our actions.

Don't buy the new gimmick "100 years of our badge" shirt. In fact, stop buying anything from the club. Don't renew your season tickets. Boycott the club financially until they either put their hand in their pocket or sell up.

But please, THST, stop bullshitting your fellow Yids with this embarrassing nonsense.
Never heard of that saying "all noise is good noise"?

I would hope that Levy knows that if fan groups are going to this much trouble then all is not well with him and his board's stewardship of the club. As you say, he should also know that the people pushing back pay his wages by being Spurs customers i.e. fans. They put money into his revenue streams. As you say, we all have the choice where to spend our money.

So I've never doubted Levy's intentions are honourable. He is after all a Spurs fan like the rest of us. I've also never doubted that in times of revenue growth there have been some bad business and financial decisions made. There always are in companies and there definitely have been in Levy's tenure.

What I want to see now is Levy to stop running a half a billion company like a £100m company. He needs to acknowledge his personal strengths and weaknesses and get the exec team right around him. That should mean him moving to more of a senior position and stepping back from the football operations.

I actually don't want him out at all. I just want him to re-organise the club first and see where it takes us. I'd worry about the alternative of different owners.
 

Pompey Yid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#20
Never heard of that saying "all noise is good noise"?

I would hope that Levy knows that if fan groups are going to this much trouble then all is not well with him and his board's stewardship of the club. As you say, he should also know that the people pushing back pay his wages by being Spurs customers i.e. fans. They put money into his revenue streams. As you say, we all have the choice where to spend our money.

So I've never doubted Levy's intentions are honourable. He is after all a Spurs fan like the rest of us. I've also never doubted that in times of revenue growth there have been some bad business and financial decisions made. There always are in companies and there definitely have been in Levy's tenure.

What I want to see now is Levy to stop running a half a billion company like a £100m company. He needs to acknowledge his personal strengths and weaknesses and get the exec team right around him. That should mean him moving to more of a senior position and stepping back from the football operations.

I actually don't want him out at all. I just want him to re-organise the club first and see where it takes us. I'd worry about the alternative of different owners.
muttley excellent post, I am most certainly with you there, I know a lot of my oppo's feel the same and they are ST holders.