Spurs BOE loan - damaging or restrictive conditions? | Page 2 | Vital Football

Spurs BOE loan - damaging or restrictive conditions?

#22
Because he's not a football operations man. He's a property developer. A very good one. But he's not a football man. He's a property developer that happens to be a football fan.

We need a Dof. Or we need a real sports executive at the top of the organization.
hmmm, not sure he developed much property up until; the new stadium. his family run a retail business called Mr.Byrite and then Blue I think, so his background was one from the rag trade primarily until he went to work for Uncle Joe ( he may have interned there for a while as well if memory serves me right) and then when they set up ENIC - which had a really bad poorly thought out strategy, his degree was in land management, from Cambridge if I recall correctly? He also did incredibly well by investing in Autonomy when the Internet businesses were getting ridiculous valuations - now-the disgraced (HP owned now) search engine/Knowledge management company and again from memory, I seem to recall the Levy family turned an investment there into around 50 mill payout from a fairly modest investment.

but it underlines a football operations man he was not, although having done nothing else for the last 20 years, he is now.
 
#23
hmmm, not sure he developed much property up until; the new stadium. his family run a retail business called Mr.Byrite and then Blue I think, so his background was one from the rag trade primarily until he went to work for Uncle Joe ( he may have interned there for a while as well if memory serves me right) and then when they set up ENIC - which had a really bad poorly thought out strategy, his degree was in land management, from Cambridge if I recall correctly? He also did incredibly well by investing in Autonomy when the Internet businesses were getting ridiculous valuations - now-the disgraced (HP owned now) search engine/Knowledge management company and again from memory, I seem to recall the Levy family turned an investment there into around 50 mill payout from a fairly modest investment.

but it underlines a football operations man he was not, although having done nothing else for the last 20 years, he is now.

No, he's not. He doesn't understand thematic strategy. Or maybe he does and chooses to ignore it.
 

Pompey Yid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#24
So many differences in opions, so just where are we?
I will not slag off Levy, because I really do know enough or profess to.

I do like the idea of a DOF, especially if he/she is good at what they do and can add to the Club I love.
 

xvausch

Vital 1st Team Regular
#25
When he first went 'executive' full time, I hated it because I knew he was learning on the job and we'd pay a price for that - which I believe goes beyond him paying himself for much of it as the PL top-paid exec.

He should be beginning to think about stepping back soon and sadly, if the club isn't sold by ENIC (Old Joe really is old now and can't go on forever - although word is his children will simply inherit all) then we can look forward to his son taking over..who is currently running another in the stable and was neatly slotted in by the 'family' having done little to nothing with the sme finance market before....

So Levy really shouldn't have his hands on the wheel because I suspect all we're going to get in due course is another mini me Levy, who follows the same regime.

We need fresh blood everywhere at the top of this business. That is, if we are ever going to cash-in on Levy seniors building the platform to higher revenues by delivering silverware.

We really need a 1 percenter, who has a track record of success.
Yeah, and this is where it comes down to that old nasty choice of what are you willing to sacrifice, adn what is it that you are sacrificing for.

Trophies is a big want for Spurs fans, the lack of them for this club is dumb. I'd love to see us win a Cup, or a EU tourney, or best would be the Prem. Who doesn't. But I just really wont ever go as far as putting the desire for Silverware over & above the game we get to watch on the pitch. Identity is a powerful thing, and we have both of them! Renowned as a club with technical style and open play that fans have enjoyed always, a true testament in their history to "the Beautiful Game". And we also got "Spursy". The first is why I become a Spurs Supporter as kid, the second I've reluctantly embraced as part of it, and another reason to enjoy it even more when they defy that label. Infrequent as that may seem.

I don't think getting guy like John Henry is likely, and so many of the others would be so much worse than we've ever had. One thing I'm pretty sure of, IF ENIC were to sell, it'd only take a little bit before that new owner would be idiotic & shitty, and a horse's ass in the eyes of a bunch of fans.

.
 
#26
Yeah, and this is where it comes down to that old nasty choice of what are you willing to sacrifice, adn what is it that you are sacrificing for.

Trophies is a big want for Spurs fans, the lack of them for this club is dumb. I'd love to see us win a Cup, or a EU tourney, or best would be the Prem. Who doesn't. But I just really wont ever go as far as putting the desire for Silverware over & above the game we get to watch on the pitch. Identity is a powerful thing, and we have both of them! Renowned as a club with technical style and open play that fans have enjoyed always, a true testament in their history to "the Beautiful Game". And we also got "Spursy". The first is why I become a Spurs Supporter as kid, the second I've reluctantly embraced as part of it, and another reason to enjoy it even more when they defy that label. Infrequent as that may seem.

I don't think getting guy like John Henry is likely, and so many of the others would be so much worse than we've ever had. One thing I'm pretty sure of, IF ENIC were to sell, it'd only take a little bit before that new owner would be idiotic & shitty, and a horse's ass in the eyes of a bunch of fans.

.

Well put.
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Squad Member
#27
Yeah, and this is where it comes down to that old nasty choice of what are you willing to sacrifice, adn what is it that you are sacrificing for.

Trophies is a big want for Spurs fans, the lack of them for this club is dumb. I'd love to see us win a Cup, or a EU tourney, or best would be the Prem. Who doesn't. But I just really wont ever go as far as putting the desire for Silverware over & above the game we get to watch on the pitch. Identity is a powerful thing, and we have both of them! Renowned as a club with technical style and open play that fans have enjoyed always, a true testament in their history to "the Beautiful Game". And we also got "Spursy". The first is why I become a Spurs Supporter as kid, the second I've reluctantly embraced as part of it, and another reason to enjoy it even more when they defy that label. Infrequent as that may seem.

I don't think getting guy like John Henry is likely, and so many of the others would be so much worse than we've ever had. One thing I'm pretty sure of, IF ENIC were to sell, it'd only take a little bit before that new owner would be idiotic & shitty, and a horse's ass in the eyes of a bunch of fans.

.
Agree entirely.
 

Pompey Yid

Vital 1st Team Regular
#28
Yeah, and this is where it comes down to that old nasty choice of what are you willing to sacrifice, adn what is it that you are sacrificing for.

Trophies is a big want for Spurs fans, the lack of them for this club is dumb. I'd love to see us win a Cup, or a EU tourney, or best would be the Prem. Who doesn't. But I just really wont ever go as far as putting the desire for Silverware over & above the game we get to watch on the pitch. Identity is a powerful thing, and we have both of them! Renowned as a club with technical style and open play that fans have enjoyed always, a true testament in their history to "the Beautiful Game". And we also got "Spursy". The first is why I become a Spurs Supporter as kid, the second I've reluctantly embraced as part of it, and another reason to enjoy it even more when they defy that label. Infrequent as that may seem.

I don't think getting guy like John Henry is likely, and so many of the others would be so much worse than we've ever had. One thing I'm pretty sure of, IF ENIC were to sell, it'd only take a little bit before that new owner would be idiotic & shitty, and a horse's ass in the eyes of a bunch of fans.

.
100% agreement there.
My view on Trophies is if we win, we win, simple as that, not losing sleep because we do not, and anyway there are a large number of other Clubs/sides that will have a say in whether we win or not.
 
#30
Yeah, and this is where it comes down to that old nasty choice of what are you willing to sacrifice, adn what is it that you are sacrificing for.

Trophies is a big want for Spurs fans, the lack of them for this club is dumb. I'd love to see us win a Cup, or a EU tourney, or best would be the Prem. Who doesn't. But I just really wont ever go as far as putting the desire for Silverware over & above the game we get to watch on the pitch. Identity is a powerful thing, and we have both of them! Renowned as a club with technical style and open play that fans have enjoyed always, a true testament in their history to "the Beautiful Game". And we also got "Spursy". The first is why I become a Spurs Supporter as kid, the second I've reluctantly embraced as part of it, and another reason to enjoy it even more when they defy that label. Infrequent as that may seem.

I don't think getting guy like John Henry is likely, and so many of the others would be so much worse than we've ever had. One thing I'm pretty sure of, IF ENIC were to sell, it'd only take a little bit before that new owner would be idiotic & shitty, and a horse's ass in the eyes of a bunch of fans.

.
The absolute cold hard reality is to get the silverware fans/critics want, we need a new owner who has hundreds of millions to burn; in terms of total capital employed on the pitch, only one club has less that us (and not by much) and that's Leicester (the exception that proves the rule) and even they cheated the FFPR to achieve what they did (nbut good luck to them).

To compete with the bin dippers, the chav's the oil sheiks we need around £3-400 mill spent on players to be even considered in that bracket - so many fans simply won't accept that Poch had us massively over-perform, but in terms of long term money on the pitch, we did, we will in the future, but we were always in a chicken and the egg situation in terms of how we generate the finance to achieve that.

What is certain to me as of this moment in time, I can't see us bridging that gap under Jose.
 
#31
The absolute cold hard reality is to get the silverware fans/critics want, we need a new owner who has hundreds of millions to burn; in terms of total capital employed on the pitch, only one club has less that us (and not by much) and that's Leicester (the exception that proves the rule) and even they cheated the FFPR to achieve what they did (nbut good luck to them).

To compete with the bin dippers, the chav's the oil sheiks we need around £3-400 mill spent on players to be even considered in that bracket - so many fans simply won't accept that Poch had us massively over-perform, but in terms of long term money on the pitch, we did, we will in the future, but we were always in a chicken and the egg situation in terms of how we generate the finance to achieve that.

What is certain to me as of this moment in time, I can't see us bridging that gap under Jose.

Yeah because we need to find that magic manager who can win trophies with this squad. Jose has nothing to do with us bridging the gap. We were close, and then Covid hit.
 
#33
Yeah because we need to find that magic manager who can win trophies with this squad. Jose has nothing to do with us bridging the gap. We were close, and then Covid hit.
Jose was bought in to bridge that gap. He was so good he was supposed to be the viable alternative to spending a few hundred million to bridge that gap - pretty much as Manure had t9o spend 268 mill under his watch to do it.

Covid hasn't helped, but it's more his tactical ineptitude that has seen us rise temporarily and then slump again.
 
#34
Off topic here, Ex what's in the rumour that a discussion is underway regards naming rights with British Airways for about £250m
All true, except for I don't believe it's anything to do with BA

- The new commercial man has I am told already opened up discussions with a number of interested parties, BA maybe one I guess, but I highly doubt it.

I was once a co-owner of a Racehorse with a previous Chairman of BA and funnily enough, we had this discussion not too long ago, he believes strongly that we would never fit their lofty sponsorship profile, plus the airline, all airlines is in a hell of a bad shape at the moment, and so a huge deal like that now is extremely unlikely.

But I believe the next big Sponsor is likely to be US-based corporation - guess we will see in due course. Everyone is now planning post covid, and so doing a deal with year would give a sponsor the box seat in terms of getting demands met that they probably wouldn't normally.

There are some huge tech companies looking at the right sponsorship deals now, my money would be on a few of them. Not just one.
 
#35
Jose was bought in to bridge that gap. He was so good he was supposed to be the viable alternative to spending a few hundred million to bridge that gap - pretty much as Manure had t9o spend 268 mill under his watch to do it.

Covid hasn't helped, but it's more his tactical ineptitude that has seen us rise temporarily and then slump again.

Jose was hired to take a team on the rise to the next level. On the rise financially. He bought into that. It's what he is good at. Taking a well-heeled team into trophy territory consistently.

There is only one reason we are struggling a year on, Covid forced bargain buys and a reduction in spending.

He is being used as a scapegoat for something out of everyone's control.

Although the players' attitudes have been extremely questionable.
 

xvausch

Vital 1st Team Regular
#36
Jose was hired to take a team on the rise to the next level. On the rise financially. He bought into that. It's what he is good at. Taking a well-heeled team into trophy territory consistently.

There is only one reason we are struggling a year on, Covid forced bargain buys and a reduction in spending.

He is being used as a scapegoat for something out of everyone's control.

Although the players' attitudes have been extremely questionable.
You're really twisting yourself up a bit to defend him now.

He was handed a TopClub squad, Full stop. We just played a CL final, set club records all over the place in signing new top talent, both before and after he arrived. In fact, the most expensive & talent-laden squad in Spurs history, according to nearly all posters on this board at the time.

What Jose has done in the past, is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you suggest. The man you are describing is Carlo Ancelotti.

Jose arrives and DESTORYS whatever was set before, DEMANDS record setting funds to buy specific players he claims are required (Often many people in the coaching & scouting worlds scratch their heads at these analyses of his), picks out and DESTROYS one if not two of the new clubs most imports/best/critical players to "Show Who's BOSS" (This invariably backfires and causes any successes he may see on the field to be delayed for months if not a season), and then he plays himself to the media in what is the "game" he really enjoys, not that pesky damn "footballing" business.

He is all about his "Profile". He said to to Kane before your very eyes.

Ancelotti is the guy that comes in, makes an objective analysis, and then implements the existing squad to it's precision strengths, and he wins.

Again, this was a WORLD CLASS CLUB SQUAD that Jose was handed. Suggesting anything else is a lie. You can go with the whole "overachiever" bit under Poch, but no serious Football Man anywhere wouldn't give you a bit of a chuckle for it.

Using COVID would be a fine excuse, except everyone on the planet is dealing with the same thing. So it would make sense to look at things in a "relative" sense. Doing that, we see we are COMPARITIVELY WORSE OFF, than we were in relation to other football clubs (England). The mitigating factor in this LARGE disparity, is the one and only JoseTheFraud.

And lastly, FYI, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE in English football, was more prepared for this shutdown when it happened, than DL. He put for things & efforts long before anyone else came out of their denial. And thank goodness he did.

Spurs struggles on the pitch currently have NOTHING to do with COVID, and EVERYTHING to do with a shitty manger in charge. We conducted the business intended, to a much better effect than many other clubs. There were no "settling buys", all in were targets, and nothing was a surprise. Well expect that some of those desired deals actually getting done on time.

I fail to see the rationale for defending him, at all, I really do.

Might not be a popular opinion, but to me, the fact that this man never played sport at its highest level, which almost all top coaches have. And that this man never really played sport at the professional level, which Im sure every single teir1 pro team coach has, makes him 1000% mentally unsuitable to understand his players, the "rigors of the game" both physically & mentally, and the overall toll the roller-coaster of success & failures do to your mind & body.

If not for a bit of bald nepotism, he'd prolly have ended up a Banker, which he'd have been much better suited for. Sucks for us.

Jose out.

.
 
#37
You're really twisting yourself up a bit to defend him now.

He was handed a TopClub squad, Full stop. We just played a CL final, set club records all over the place in signing new top talent, both before and after he arrived. In fact, the most expensive & talent-laden squad in Spurs history, according to nearly all posters on this board at the time.

What Jose has done in the past, is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you suggest. The man you are describing is Carlo Ancelotti.

Jose arrives and DESTORYS whatever was set before, DEMANDS record setting funds to buy specific players he claims are required (Often many people in the coaching & scouting worlds scratch their heads at these analyses of his), picks out and DESTROYS one if not two of the new clubs most imports/best/critical players to "Show Who's BOSS" (This invariably backfires and causes any successes he may see on the field to be delayed for months if not a season), and then he plays himself to the media in what is the "game" he really enjoys, not that pesky damn "footballing" business.

He is all about his "Profile". He said to to Kane before your very eyes.

Ancelotti is the guy that comes in, makes an objective analysis, and then implements the existing squad to it's precision strengths, and he wins.

Again, this was a WORLD CLASS CLUB SQUAD that Jose was handed. Suggesting anything else is a lie. You can go with the whole "overachiever" bit under Poch, but no serious Football Man anywhere wouldn't give you a bit of a chuckle for it.

Using COVID would be a fine excuse, except everyone on the planet is dealing with the same thing. So it would make sense to look at things in a "relative" sense. Doing that, we see we are COMPARITIVELY WORSE OFF, than we were in relation to other football clubs (England). The mitigating factor in this LARGE disparity, is the one and only JoseTheFraud.

And lastly, FYI, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE in English football, was more prepared for this shutdown when it happened, than DL. He put for things & efforts long before anyone else came out of their denial. And thank goodness he did.

Spurs struggles on the pitch currently have NOTHING to do with COVID, and EVERYTHING to do with a shitty manger in charge. We conducted the business intended, to a much better effect than many other clubs. There were no "settling buys", all in were targets, and nothing was a surprise. Well expect that some of those desired deals actually getting done on time.

I fail to see the rationale for defending him, at all, I really do.

Might not be a popular opinion, but to me, the fact that this man never played sport at its highest level, which almost all top coaches have. And that this man never really played sport at the professional level, which Im sure every single teir1 pro team coach has, makes him 1000% mentally unsuitable to understand his players, the "rigors of the game" both physically & mentally, and the overall toll the roller-coaster of success & failures do to your mind & body.

If not for a bit of bald nepotism, he'd prolly have ended up a Banker, which he'd have been much better suited for. Sucks for us.

Jose out.

.

Everyone has their biases. The failure to see the impact Covid has had on our club is ridiculous. It couldn't have happened at a worse time for Tottenham. DL did react but there is only so much you can do when your entire growth plan was based on large numbers of people using the stadium. The change in cash position will take years to rectify. Lose a dollar you have to earn $5.00 to recover that $1.00.
 
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#38
There's a point where it's just not a "bias" at all, when it becomes an undeniable set of circumstances, and assigning any further "bias" is just plain a denial of developed realities.

It'd help if you'd point out these supposed "failure to see the impact on our club" are, who made these errors, and what instead should have been done? I see nothing but the contrary in actual facts.

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Not my point. I am not blaming anyone for anything. The failure to recognize the impact Covid HAS had on the club, lost revenues and increased debt payments, and the way DL has had to react to it to keep the club solvent will have lasting effects that will take years to recover from. Just when the elite level of football was within our grasp, at least financially, it has been snatched away by Covid.

Jose signed on with the belief that Tottenham was on the brink and he was the guy charged with taking us to the next level. Through no fault of his, or anyone else's, it can't happen now.
 
#39
Not my point. I am not blaming anyone for anything. The failure to recognize the impact Covid HAS had on the club, lost revenues and increased debt payments, and the way DL has had to react to it to keep the club solvent will have lasting effects that will take years to recover from. Just when the elite level of football was within our grasp, at least financially, it has been snatched away by Covid.

Jose signed on with the belief that Tottenham was on the brink and he was the guy charged with taking us to the next level. Through no fault of his, or anyone else's, it can't happen now.
I still think the bigger damage was done in and from the summer of 2017. That's when we were on the brink of greatness, never close since. We have never recovered from decisions made then. We attained 86 points in the league and came second to Chelsea. What happened next was a decline to 77pts, 71pts, 59pts over 3 seasons. We're on 48pts now. Have we even bottomed out yet?

A club that told their fans that whatever happened the football and stadium finances were mutually exclusive. A club that said that we needed to achieve CL status by the time the stadium opened. A club that then took the Brucey Bonus CL years revenues and posted 2 years of record-breaking profits whilst the 1st team imploded. Then finally panicked and spent money, but can't knit any it together.

So I'm not in the slightest bit worried about the coming years. They will be a breeze compared to the horror show we've just come through. I just wish the fans would accept their lot and accept the road we have ahead.