So, whadda we gonna moan abart?

[moonay]

Sorry Ant, but thats bollox.
So lets gt it right, we should have spent 100's of billions of £'s 10 years ago to counteract something nobody had even seen or heard of nevermind become ill with, thats political astuteness for you.

How on earth is it bollocks? The lack of spending over the last ten years weakened the NHS massively. Full stop. Why else would Johnson have been making such a big issue about all the extra nurses and hospitals if it wasn't seen as a critical necessity?

It wasn't needed to counteract anything ........it was required to make the health service fit for purpose. There's been capacity issues every year just with normal flu.

Also, the build up is absolutely something the government could have done better and quicker. Health staff dying because they don't have PPE? How abhorrent is that?

Would a Labour government have had the foresight to have done it, or would they have already have pissed up any of the Countries wealth against a wall like they have done each of the last few occasions they have been in power in modern times?
.

Oh dear. Did you see that written on the side of a bus? I will give you though that the Tory government haven't pissed up the county's wealth up against a wall ......no, they just line their own pockets with it.

Political points scoring as usual from a Labour leader who has failed in everything he has tried, in an era when getting elected as PM could not have been easier.

Point scoring? Surely he's allowed to comment on the government's handling of what is a national emergency isn't he? Or would you rather have a totalitarian state where disagreement is not allowed.

Anyway, do you disagree with any of the points I made re the timeliness of the actions taken in the last few weeks? NHS staff still not been tested ......still not enough PPE ...... still too few ventilators.

I praised Johnson and Sunak and the government for the measures they've introduced to support the public and businesses. Likewise, I'm criticising them for not reacting swiftly enough to put measures in place to support those who will be the heros of this awful situation.

 

[moonay]

I would agree with you Moonay if and once our own citizens (irrespective of age, colour or creed) were prioritised and looked after first.
I could ask my bank, council or anyone else for help - if i wasn't entitled or circumstances didn't allow the answer would be no - and fair enough

It's all about commitment Hampton. If the government want to make it happen, then they can.

As an aside ...... Do you think that immigrants get told "yes", even though they're not entitled?

 

[Jonnysking]

I get wht you are saying Ant, but if you are right, then every single government in the world no matter what their political persuasion is guilty.
This is a global pandemic and no government anywhere would have ploughed in enough money to a health service to cope with a situation that was even known about.
Certain things could have been done differently over the years, but it wouldn't have been enough to cope with what is happening at the moment.
I suppose most things seem to be being done that are possible now, so lets leave it there and do our bit to help drive this virus away by keeping in and away from others as far is practicable.

PS. I have had another fab minute visiting my wheelie bins this morning. I will cut my finger and toe nails later, but I am leaving that for an evening treat.

 

[moonay]

I get wht you are saying Ant, but if you are right, then every single government in the world no matter what their political persuasion is guilty........

To a degree, yes ....... maybe with the exception of Singapore and South Korea.

This is a global pandemic and no government anywhere would have ploughed in enough money to a health service to cope with a situation that was even known about..

There are 2 separate issues.
1. The state of the health service irrespective of any emergency. Ours was sadly lacking.
2. The speed with which emergency measures are put in place. With hindsight, we were way too slow, and still haven't caught up.

Certain things could have been done differently over the years, but it wouldn't have been enough to cope with what is happening at the moment.
I suppose most things seem to be being done that are possible now, so lets leave it there and do our bit to help drive this virus away by keeping in and away from others as far is practicable..

No worries with that ......... but you had the pop at Corbyn first.

PS. I have had another fab minute visiting my wheelie bins this morning. I will cut my finger and toe nails later, but I am leaving that for an evening treat.

Will you be streaming it? Maybe we can get a book going on how long the longest clipping might be ............. or on which toe, you go too close to the skin and draw a little blood.

 

[Made in Wigan]

Germany’s health system is coping and is obviously funded differently. Just saying. But I really can’t be arsed with politics today. Just listened to Nicola Sturgeon. I normally have no time for her and her one trick pony routine but thought she spoke very well, was assertive and it’s important folk take heed of government advice.

Visited mum with my two year old. Dropped of some flowers and cards in the back garden but didn’t go in for obvious reasons. They came out to speak to us through the closed car window. My little lad was delighted to see her but didn’t understand why he couldn’t get out and was upset. Mum was also crying and very upset because she couldn’t touch him. Felt somewhat emotional myself. I left and an hour or so later an ambulance arrived to take her 42 year old neighbour, who has two young children to hospital. Wheeled out with an oxygen mask on after self isolating since Monday with covid symptoms. What a fucking shit Mother’s Day and horrible state of affairs. Stay well people.

 

[Hampton]

It's all about commitment Hampton. If the government want to make it happen, then they can.

As an aside ...... Do you think that immigrants get told "yes", even though they're not entitled?

I do Moonay - NHS treatment being a prime example - emergency accommodation being another - these people aren't trying to get into the UK because of the weather !
Wonder why the migrants don't wish to stay in "socialist" France or any other country crossed along the way?

 

[jocklatic]

Oh give over. Are we not allowed to discuss anything any more?

Discuss what u want Moonay ( & if the cap fits) but moaning about cuts etc to gain a holier than thou outlook ain't gonna bring them said cuts back - as I say petty political point scoring. Jeez look at Italy, the Lombardy region, was quoted as being the model health facilities / set up in Europe with zero cuts yet it's is really really struggling.
We get the likes of John McDonnell coming on tv & instead of praising the chancellor / government on this huge bailout he goes point scoring...."what about the unemployed benefits, they should be increased......really!!!

 

[moonay]

I do Moonay - NHS treatment being a prime example

Between my Dad, Father in law and Mother in law, I've had reason to visit hospitals on a very regular basis over the last couple of years, and I can't think of a single instance of treatment being delayed other than for medical urgency.

....Wonder why the migrants don't wish to stay in "socialist" France or any other country crossed along the way?

You do realise that France has it's own (large) share of immigrants?

 

[moonay]

Discuss what u want Moonay ( & if the cap fits) but moaning about cuts etc to gain a holier than thou outlook ain't gonna bring them said cuts back - as I say petty political point scoring. Jeez look at Italy, the Lombardy region, was quoted as being the model health facilities / set up in Europe with zero cuts yet it's is really really struggling.
We get the likes of John McDonnell coming on tv & instead of praising the chancellor / government on this huge bailout he goes point scoring...."what about the unemployed benefits, they should be increased......really!!!

I Wasn't moaning about the cuts Jock. I was responding to johnnysking, who was having a pop at Corbyn for moaning about them.

Holier than thou? Don't be so silly.

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make re Lombardy ........ and I've no idea if you claims are facts or not.

Re McDonnell ....... oh, so it's OK for you to have a pop at him, but I can't comment on how the Tory party have managed things over the last ten years ................ or how they might have handled the early days and weeks of this awful situation better?

 

[jocklatic]

I Wasn't moaning about the cuts Jock. I was responding to johnnysking, who was having a pop at Corbyn for moaning about them.

Holier than thou? Don't be so silly.

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make re Lombardy ........ and I've no idea if you claims are facts or not.

Re McDonnell ....... oh, so it's OK for you to have a pop at him, but I can't comment on how the Tory party have managed things over the last ten years ................ or how they might have handled the early days and weeks of this awful situation better?

Re Lombardy.....No cuts, best run health care, full staff (source = BBC News - biased or no biased one!!) yet it still cannot cope. Our NHS cut by both sets of governments over years will NOT cope & even if no cuts we'd still not cope if we go off the situation in Italy.

Re McDonnell....I'm having a pop at people be it u, McDonnell, or anyone else who are imo just merely point scoring.

We all know what politicians are like, continuously back biting, political point scoring & very rarely answer the questions put to them but stupidly I thought this crisis might make them put all that to one side.......but no its business as usual.

Oh n don't get me started on these selfish billionaires.....and breath

 

[loudmouthblue]

Missing the whole point.....!
Which is are these folk contributing whilst working or are they under the radar - think you know the answer !

As I said in the second part of my reply which you have not responded to, who are the ones employing those that "are under the radar" it's a little like society condemning those in the black economy working yet still claiming benefits yet the same condemnation is not as intense or indeed vitriolic for the ones employing them.

 

[Jonnysking]

On a lighter note, there has just been an interview on BBC news with a florist regarding Mothers Day.

The interviewee stated, 'it has been the worst Mothers Day for flower sales across all her businesses in the 34 years she has been in business'.

The response from the BBC reporter was, 'And why is that'?

Fantastic cutting edge jounalism. I am sure the interviewer is regretting her response, and the interview will surely be modified.

 

[moonay]

Re Lombardy.....No cuts, best run health care, full staff (source = BBC News - biased or no biased one!!) yet it still cannot cope. Our NHS cut by both sets of governments over years will NOT cope & even if no cuts we'd still not cope if we go off the situation in Italy.......

Both sets? Ten years ago since Labour were in. If the NHS had indeed seen cuts under their watch, then there have been ten years since to remedy that ........ not to make more damn cuts !

Italy were too slow to take action. We've been even slower.

Re McDonnell....I'm having a pop at people be it u, McDonnell, or anyone else who are imo just merely point scoring.

Again Jock, I was merely rebuffing a point.

We all know what politicians are like, continuously back biting, political point scoring & very rarely answer the questions put to them but stupidly I thought this crisis might make them put all that to one side.......but no its business as usual.

Oh n don't get me started on these selfish billionaires.....and breath

 

[Hampton]

Between my Dad, Father in law and Mother in law, I've had reason to visit hospitals on a very regular basis over the last couple of years, and I can't think of a single instance of treatment being delayed other than for medical urgency.

Not the point i made - you asked if they get things they're not entitled to. I responded NHS treatment - what's that to do with treatment delays ?. As you keep mentioning underfunded, long waiting lists etc etc - will rest on this as it's undeniable.

You do realise that France has it's own (large) share of immigrants?

Was specifically looking at those which economically migrate to the UK for maximum benefit and why that may be. Again not sure the point here !

 

[moonay]

Sorry Hampton. I was linking your NHS point to your earlier one re prioritisation.

It seems we're both confusing each other a touch here, so best leave it.

Any road, it must be nearly time for Johnnysking to start cutting his toe nails.

Hope it's not on smellavision.

 

[Hampton]

As I said in the second part of my reply which you have not responded to, who are the ones employing those that "are under the radar" it's a little like society condemning those in the black economy working yet still claiming benefits yet the same condemnation is not as intense or indeed vitriolic for the ones employing them.

I will try again ! Economic migrants are working in the industries i noted earlier (and lots of others) cash in hand no tax no NI.
If you don't understand or have seen this yourself your bubble must be small.
Not sure why you are asking about employers? Unscrupulous ones come in all shapes and sizes. However organised crime fm eastern europe and asia who get these workers in spring to mind taking most of the revenue whilst money laundering at the same time.
It seems you believe we live in some kind of socialist nirvana - we don't, wise up !

 

[Jonnysking]

Sorry Hampton. I was linking your NHS point to your earlier one re prioritisation.

It seems we're both confusing each other a touch here, so best leave it.

Any road, it must be nearly time for Johnnysking to start cutting his toe nails.

Hope it's not on smellavision.

I'm leaving it for a while yet, have my tea, and get a good film on first.
It will be worth the wait, but the anticipation is killing me.

I'm just hoping I'll have the energy for my toe nails as bending around my paunch and lifting the old legs up near enough to the clippers can be a bit of an exercise routine on its own.

 

[moonay]

.......I'm just hoping I'll have the energy for my toe nails as bending around my paunch and lifting the old legs up near enough to the clippers can be a bit of an exercise routine on its own.

#pray4johnny #thoughtsandprayers

Tip......do it bent down, on one knee, as if you were proposing ..... again.

 

[Jonnysking]

#pray4johnny #thoughtsandprayers

Tip......do it bent down, on one knee, as if you were proposing ..... again.

That's a good tip, I usually sit on the edge of the bed and lift the old legs up, but I might just try your way later. Cheers Ant.

 

[hindleymonwafc]

I will try again ! Economic migrants are working in the industries i noted earlier (and lots of others) cash in hand no tax no NI.
If you don't understand or have seen this yourself your bubble must be small.
Not sure why you are asking about employers? Unscrupulous ones come in all shapes and sizes. However organised crime fm eastern europe and asia who get these workers in spring to mind taking most of the revenue whilst money laundering at the same time.
It seems you believe we live in some kind of socialist nirvana - we don't, wise up !

The whole world is on one fiddle or another irrespective of creed or colour....in my experience the lads on the lowest level are doing their best while the men in charge ( usually our own home grown ) escape any criticism.

I will try again ! Economic migrants are working in the industries i noted earlier (and lots of others) cash in hand no tax no NI.
If you don't understand or have seen this yourself your bubble must be small.
Not sure why you are asking about employers? Unscrupulous ones come in all shapes and sizes. However organised crime fm eastern europe and asia who get these workers in spring to mind taking most of the revenue whilst money laundering at the same time.
It seems you believe we live in some kind of socialist nirvana - we don't, wise up !

I will try again ! Economic migrants are working in the industries i noted earlier (and lots of others) cash in hand no tax no NI.
If you don't understand or have seen this yourself your bubble must be small.
Not sure why you are asking about employers? Unscrupulous ones come in all shapes and sizes. However organised crime fm eastern europe and asia who get these workers in spring to mind taking most of the revenue whilst money laundering at the same time.
It seems you believe we live in some kind of socialist nirvana - we don't, wise up !

The whole world is on the fiddle in one way or another...the lads at the bottom ( our level ) are just trying their best to get through in one piece. These are Brits , Polish, Romanian, Iranian etc. etc...nearly all cracking lads. Also, I have worked for some right bent bastards who are nearly all white Wigginers. I have no time for free loaders wherever they come from but the vast majority who turn up here want to put a good shift in...if they dont with me then they get bloody told.