So, whadda we gonna moan abart? | Page 129 | Vital Football

So, whadda we gonna moan abart?

moonay

Vital Football Hero
Oh, MiW ......... just a thought. Given the following two statements.................

Family can be defined as wife/children or wider parent/siblings. Semantics, I suspect both police and he are right.

Home is home. I class my house as home. I also class my parents house as ‘home’. Again semantics.

.................would you describe your parents as "family"?
:hmmm:
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
Cummings is not going to let anything be said on his behalf if he's not entirely happy with it. So, yes, dis/partial honesty. Semantics my arse.
Again, where is the dishonesty? It’s semantics, you’re just upset as it’s not planned out out as expected!

ondon is London, Durham is Durham, and she doesn't mention the travel. I wonder why not?
Why would she? It’s an article not a statement to the Police. She didn’t mention the mode of travel, route taken, weather en route, traffic conditions etc.

Since when have you said, "right, I'm off home", and gone to your parents' house .......or said, "I'll work from home tomorrow", and gone round to your parents to work. Stop trying to cover for him.
I’ve lived in several places and often said I’m off home back to Wigan. Doesn’t mean I lived there at the time, but it’s often where the heart is. Just be sure you may not use the expression doesn’t mean others don’t. He’s a big boy and doesn’t need me covering for him, besides you’re just upset it’s not as black and white as you think.

ou corrected the "e turkey" .................... however, you haven't corrected The first two wilfully obeyed their recommended advice That was the excited bit
The missed ‘dis’. Hardly excitable, unlike your swift response - which unforgivably contained a similar error 😉

ve shown you the guidance. No he didn't.

Oh, and your 3 bullet points carry about as much weight as your defence of Cummings.

Now...... if it were Starmer .......... or Abbott .........or Corbyn (or any of their advisors) I'm trying to imagine you defending them same level.
I’ve seen the guidance. He complied with it

Again he doesn’t need defending, he’s done nothing wrong. It just needs pointing out to the baying loons as the gullible believe the incessant twitter bukake. .

As for the other 3, well I’ve already defended donkey mon from wrong doing today; pointed out Steptoe breaking the guidance some months ago (do you think he should also resign) and strangely the Gonad seemed not to blow their load on this breach; and as for abacus, well she has trouble putting matching shoes on so i doubt she’d get far.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
Oh, MiW ......... just a thought. Given the following two statements.................

Family can be defined as wife/children or wider parent/siblings. Semantics, I suspect both police and he are right.

Home is home. I class my house as home. I also class my parents house as ‘home’. Again semantics.

.................would you describe your parents as "family"?
:hmmm:
Of course, but it depends in which context I’m using the term whether I mean them, my wider family including brother etc or just my wife and child.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
There's really little point discussing this issue further.

I've pointed out his "partial" honesty re the "family" statement.

We read his wife's account as we wish. (I wonder if they stopped on the way........ in fact, given that his wife was already showing symptoms, and he was obviously at that point asymptomatic, I wonder also if he had downloaded the tracker, and traced anyone with whom he came into contact).

You now refer to home as your town, which I can understand .......... I still don't get why you would ever describe your parents' house (having left it years ago) as "home" though.

You choose to interpret the guidance as allowing him - or presumably anyone - to do anything they feel best for them ..................what argument can I offer in return?!

You choose to label people "baying loons", and "gullible" ................. why do you always revert to name calling? The arrogance of Cummings seems to be rubbing off MiW.

:shrug:
 

Hampton

Vital 1st Team Regular
Is it just me but do others think the journalists are wasting questions in this briefing just asking the same question over and over again! 36,000 people have died and not a word said about it! What a waste of space they are!!
Yes of course - though not sure if asking the same questions as the past week again to political heavyweight Grant would have moved the debate forward at all.
That said the "all pile in" on Shapps was worth a watch - almost felt sorry for him, almost 😉
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
There's really little point discussing this issue further.

I've pointed out his "partial" honesty re the "family" statement.

We read his wife's account as we wish. (I wonder if they stopped on the way........ in fact, given that his wife was already showing symptoms, and he was obviously at that point asymptomatic, I wonder also if he had downloaded the tracker, and traced anyone with whom he came into contact).

You now refer to home as your town, which I can understand .......... I still don't get why you would ever describe your parents' house (having left it years ago) as "home" though.

You choose to interpret the guidance as allowing him - or presumably anyone - to do anything they feel best for them ..................what argument can I offer in return?!

You choose to label people "baying loons", and "gullible" ................. why do you always revert to name calling? The arrogance of Cummings seems to be rubbing off MiW.

:shrug:
You’re right. There is little point in discussing it, as there is nothing to discuss.

There is no ‘partial dishonesty’.

You can interpret his wife’s article two months ago as you wish.

Given this occurred two months ago he wouldn’t have downloaded any tracker - as it didn’t exist.

I can describe where I grew up as home if that’s what I feel it is - if that’s alright by you.

There is no interpreting of guidance. Lockdown was announced on the 23rd Match. On the 24th Dr Jenny Harries at the Downing Street press conference said parents who are ill and may not be able to look after a child created “exceptional circumstances” where family members could be called upon to help. As a responsible person he did exactly that, isolating them near a family support network given he has a 4 year old who cannot look after themselves. So to answer you there is no argument you can offer in response.

Baying loons and gullible are extremely apt in this context. Folk mainly of a left wing persuasion have become hysterical once again without considering the facts. There is no arrogance from me, nor DC - if you don’t like the reality of something being pointed out there’s not a lot that can be done about that.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
Is it just me but do others think the journalists are wasting questions in this briefing just asking the same question over and over again! 36,000 people have died and not a word said about it! What a waste of space they are!!
Yes of course - though not sure if asking the same questions as the past week again to political heavyweight Grant would have moved the debate forward at all.
That said the "all pile in" on Shapps was worth a watch - almost felt sorry for him, almost 😉
The presser was pathetic. The same questions bar from the last gent. A total non story but some of the shit they came out with was pathetic, but sadly the benchmark of British journalism these days.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
So the statement via No 10 that the police didn't speak to anyone in Cummings' family isn't just a teency bit dishonest? They spoke to the owner of the property ......... dad?, mum?, sister?, are these not family? The only way that the statement isn't (partially) dishonest is if the owner is a friend/someone else who he obviously knows ........... in which case, why not clearly say so?

That's the 2nd time you reference his wife's piece as being months ago. IWhat relevance do you ascribe to that? It was written during/immediately after the incident.

Point taken re tracker ....... but what about ensuring he traced anyone he came into contact with, given his wife was already ill?

You can describe home however you want ......... but that doesn't make it right for No 10 to say Cummings was working from home, when he was 260 miles away.

He wasn't ill at that point. Just his wife. People were told to self isolate immediately. Moving around the country simply means the health service have no idea of who's where. That's why the Lakes don't want people with second homes to go there. If they both got ill, his sister could easily have driven down to London to take the child back to Durham.

You are fixated with "the left".........and the name calling. If you don't think that your name calling is arrogant, then that's your view ........... and if you don't think that what Cummings did was arrogant (do as I say, not as I do), then I guess that's your choice.......... but I suspect that it's not once that most share.
 

Hampton

Vital 1st Team Regular
As his wife's family live in London either they don't get on or wouldn't help !
Not sure why the nanny could have looked after the bin lid though ?
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
So the statement via No 10 that the police didn't speak to anyone in Cummings' family isn't just a teency bit dishonest? They spoke to the owner of the property ......... dad?, mum?, sister?, are these not family? The only way that the statement isn't (partially) dishonest is if the owner is a friend/someone else who he obviously knows ........... in which case, why not clearly say so?
Do we need to discuss the definition of family depending on context any further? There was no dishonesty.

hat's the 2nd time you reference his wife's piece as being months ago. IWhat relevance do you ascribe to that? It was written during/immediately after the incident.
It’s of no relevance given it was written two months ago. It wasn’t dishonest, people choose to interpret it any way they want.

Point taken re tracker ....... but what about ensuring he traced anyone he came into contact with, given his wife was already ill?
How do you know he didn’t?

ou can describe home however you want ......... but that doesn't make it right for No 10 to say Cummings was working from home, when he was 260 miles away.
Why not? He was home.

e wasn't ill at that point. Just his wife. People were told to self isolate immediately. Moving around the country simply means the health service have no idea of who's where. That's why the Lakes don't want people with second homes to go there. If they both got ill, his sister could easily have driven down to London to take the child back to Durham.
Geez you’re getting desperate now. He travelled before he was going to become ill - rather than wait until he was. Mind you if he had waited you’d be asking why he didn’t travel before he became ill. So I guess he couldn’t win either way. Bottom line, he exercised common sense. Plus how do you know his sister can drive? Would this not have been more distressing for a 4 year old? Would you expect her to go there and back in the day or stay somewhere?

u are fixated with "the left".........and the name calling. If you don't think that your name calling is arrogant, then that's your view ........... and if you don't think that what Cummings did was arrogant (do as I say, not as I do), then I guess that's your choice.......... but I suspect that it's not once that most share.
And you are fixated with Boris and Dominic as evidenced on this forum. DC did nothing wrong so pointing that out isn’t arrogant, but clearly in your eyes and those half wits on the left that have worked themselves up over nothing that seems to be irrelevant.

I think you need to accept the ‘story’ isn’t what you’d hoped it to be, however much that clearly disappoints you.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
I'll leave it here MiW. It's not a rational discussion on some of the points...... the definition of family - specifically in this context - being the prime example.
(y)
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
I'll leave it here MiW. It's not a rational discussion on some of the points...... the definition of family - specifically in this context - being the prime example.
(y)
What’s irrational about these points???

I’m sorry but that’s just a complete cop out response because just that you can’t accept you are wrong on this whole issue ‘issue’ or even acknowledge some of the points that erode your argument. 👎
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
What’s irrational about these points???
You insist on seeing things through your particular pair of glasses, rather than how everyone else reasonably sees them.

Family - Him, his wife, his 4yo son. Hi mum, dad, sister (and niece).

The police say they spoke to the owner .....and then in the next para., the family. For the No 10 statement to deny anyone from the family was spoken to is clearly saying that Durham police lied ..................... unless of course, the context is the misleading one of him, his wife and his 4yo.

The guidance at the time. Stay at home if you have symptoms. No leeway. Nowt about going to other family members.

His wife writing an account of their isolation, conveniently not mention Durham, but puzzlingly mentioning London........... yet you see this as not relevant.

Your creative definition of "home".

You choose to see each issue through the same glasses that make a few donkeys into a zoo.

It's impossible to reasonably and rationally discuss them with you.


I’m sorry but that’s just a complete cop out response because just that you can’t accept you are wrong on this whole issue ‘issue’ or even acknowledge some of the points that erode your argument. 👎
Whatever.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
You insist on seeing things through your particular pair of glasses, rather than how everyone else reasonably sees them
And you don’t?

And by everyone else I’m guessing you mean on twitter! 😂

Family - Him, his wife, his 4yo son. Hi mum, dad, sister (and niece).
Take these two commonly used phrases:

1. I can’t go to the match next we’re going on a family holiday.
2. I can’t go to the match next i’m at a family wedding.

Both should lead you to a different definition of family.

The police say they spoke to the owner .....and then in the next para., the family. For the No 10 statement to deny anyone from the family was spoken to is clearly saying that Durham police lied ..................... unless of course, the context is the misleading one of him, his wife and his 4yo.

The guidance at the time. Stay at home if you have symptoms. No leeway. Nowt about going to other family members.
There was also a bit on people with children which you’ve conveniently missed out. It was clarified as I said by Jenny harries the day after lockdown was announced.

His wife writing an account of their isolation, conveniently not mention Durham, but puzzlingly mentioning London........... yet you see this as not relevant.
What’s puzzling about it? It was her view of London post recovery. Why would she mention where she was ill? What relevance is it considering she doesn’t work for the government nor had done anything wrong?

Your creative definition of "home".
Nothing creative about it. People can view more than one place as home and many do. If you don’t then that’s your prerogative, doesn’t make you right though.

ou choose to see each issue through the same glasses that make a few donkeys into a zoo.
And you are still getting worked up by this tongue in cheek remark

.
t's impossible to reasonably and rationally discuss them with you.
No, what you mean is you don’t like accepting your wrong and there really is ‘nothing to see here’

People usually say that when they know they’re wrong but won’t acknowledge it.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
Family - I think you've made my point for me. Thank you. That's why Cummings (or the spokesman) was being dishonest .....or at least, partially so. If the police didn't speak to him or his wife, then not to include his mum/dad/sister in the definition of "family" was devious. Alternatively, if it was none of these, then he knew who it was .........and could have said so.

Guidance .......... and yet there's nothing shown there on the website. Regardless, we won't agree, so .......:shrug:. Funny though how none of the MPs defending him say he was within the guidelines .......just that he did what he thought right for his family.

As for his wife, a well known journalist, who chose to mention her husband in her writing ........ aaah ...... leave it. You're not going to see anything wrong anyway.

Working ......from home ..................... as opposed to isolating ........ in someone else's house ........... aaah ........again, leave it.

As for the tongue in cheek zoo comment, well, as per usual, you assume feelings onto other people. Not worked up in any way .......... though I am bemused by how you create your version of reality.

You've accused me previously of wanting things to be black and white ........ and yet it's you who insist there has to be right and wrong. Projection maybe? Regardless, it's just a shame that Cummings hasn't chosen to give an honest representation of what's happened. Instead, he made a statement through No 10, and piled onto the Tory cabinet to get behind him. If he'd have reasonably explained that :
- he felt compelled to go up there as he had no other support resource for his kid (couldn't use his bro in law because ...........?)
- he didn't stop and meet people eg at services ..... or alternatively, did so, but wore a mask and gloves
- he didn't speak to police, but "x" did
........................... you see, it's not hard. Most would/may have given a grudging nod.

Instead, people - rightly or wrongly - will now think "feck it, lockdown's gone". ...... and the government will blame the public, washing their hands of any responsibility.

This wasn't about right or wrong. It should have been about leadership. Instead, it turned out to be about selfishness, arrogance it and a disregard of others.
-
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
amily - I think you've made my point for me. Thank you. That's why Cummings (or the spokesman) was being dishonest .....or at least, partially so. If the police didn't speak to him or his wife, then not to include his mum/dad/sister in the definition of "family" was devious. Alternatively, if it was none of these, then he knew who it was .........and could have said so.
No, it has proven there was no dishonesty.

Guidance .......... and yet there's nothing shown there on the website. Regardless, we won't agree, so .......:shrug:. Funny though how none of the MPs defending him say he was within the guidelines .......just that he did what he thought right for his family.
Trust me, it’s there. It was up on sky news earlier - and they’ve been as hysterical as the rest about this supposed breach. Besides harries clarified it the day lockdown or have you forgotten that?

s for his wife, a well known journalist, who chose to mention her husband in her writing ........ aaah ...... leave it. You're not going to see anything wrong anyway.

Working ......from home ..................... as opposed to isolating ........ in someone else's house ........... aaah ........again, leave it.
Indeed his wife wrote an article. About her experience.

Working from home - indeed despite being ill I’m sure he did whilst in durham. Or do you disbelieve this too?

s for the tongue in cheek zoo comment, well, as per usual, you assume feelings onto other people. Not worked up in any way .......... though I am bemused by how you create your version of reality
Just interpreting your tone, reinforced by this latest sentence.

You've accused me previously of wanting things to be black and white ........ and yet it's you who insist there has to be right and wrong. Projection maybe? Regardless, it's just a shame that Cummings hasn't chosen to give an honest representation of what's happened. Instead, he made a statement through No 10, and piled onto the Tory cabinet to get behind him. If he'd have reasonably explained that :
- he felt compelled to go up there as he had no other support resource for his kid (couldn't use his bro in law because ...........?)
- he didn't stop and meet people eg at services ..... or alternatively, did so, but wore a mask and gloves
- he didn't speak to police, but "x" did
........................... you see, it's not hard. Most would/may have given a grudging nod.
Let’s be honest here, you wouldn’t have given a grudging nod. Besides why should he give an account? The only account he needs to give is to his boss, he doesn’t need to give oxygen to a baying left wing mob.

nstead, people - rightly or wrongly - will now think "feck it, lockdown's gone". ...... and the government will blame the public, washing their hands of any responsibility.

This wasn't about right or wrong. It should have been about leadership. Instead, it turned out to be about selfishness, arrogance it and a disregard of others.
If the public are thinking that it’s due to irresponsible journalism by pushing an agenda and the left wing twitter hate mob targeting the gullible.

Of course it’s to do with right and wrong. He never did any wrong. If you’re defining looking after his wife and child within the guidelines of the law is arrogant and selfish then quite frankly that comment beggars belief.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
No point in me responding to any of the above .......... you've not listened before, so why why should you this time?

Anyway .......... it's looking like there's plenty of mileage left in this story. Watch this space.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital Football Hero
No point in me responding to any of the above .......... you've not listened before, so why why should you this time?

Anyway .......... it's looking like there's plenty of mileage left in this story. Watch this space.
I’ve not listened? It’s the whatever comment again. You won’t respond because you can’t. You’ve been given plenty of evidence that there’s no wrong doing, but you won’t acknowledge it as you wish to believe he’s broken the law. Very sad. I thought you better than this.