sheff wed

[jocklatic]

And I can't understand those that seem desperate for the new guy to come in and throw money around

Now you've pointed out that the option was available then yes I'd agree it was.
Going of the EFL's narrow parameters around administration though I don't think our case was exceptional enough to warrant them doing that for the first administration case, as gutted as I am about that.
When they were appealing I assumed that there was some secret weapon up their sleeve that nobody knew about or some twist on interpreting the rules so was really disappointed when their wasn't and it just felt like a massive waste of time and more importantly money

"massive waste of time and more importantly money ".......so so easy to say with the benefits of hindsight. Majority of fans imo would have been in uproar if we hadn't appealed regardless of the cost...I certainly would have.
So easy to be critical once the outcome / verdict is know n I'm not so sure that many fans thot that the clubs legal team had some secret weapon up their sleeve. I thought the decision to appeal was based on the legal team thinking they had a very strong case/ argument to overturn the points deduction...as it turned out we didn't but would have been gutted if we hadn't tried.

 

[Hampton]

This should be seen as a positive not a negative. Have these people shown proof of their own funds yet or not?

It can only be seen as a positive if it is seen to be consistent - it's clearly not.
The prospective owners have stated they have demonstrated this, the EFL have not denied it which surely if it where the case they would delight in doing.
It's clearly one rule for Latics and one for everyone else.
Otherwise why would the EFL not offered us a loan to avoid admin?
That would have avoided the undeserved relegation and landed us a new order in short order.

 

[Mighty Bongsmon]

This should be seen as a positive not a negative. Have these people shown proof of their own funds yet or not?


I'm gonna say this once more because it seems that people on here still don't get it. The EFL did not reduce Sheff Wed's punishment. They deducted 12 points from Sheff Wed, who subsequently appealed the decision via an independent panel separate to the EFL, who have made the ruling that 6 points are to be chalked off the deduction.


We got put into admin because the owner wanted rid of us. He'd made steps towards washing his hands of us late in 2019 with the formation of Next Leader Funds. Even without Covid, we'd have still been put into administration. Folk can moan and whinge at the EFL, but ultimately they got played, just like Jonathan Jackson, just like Darren Royle and just like the fans. You want to waste your breath blaming someone, blame the bastard that did it.

Absolutely spot on

 

[Mighty Bongsmon]

"massive waste of time and more importantly money ".......so so easy to say with the benefits of hindsight. Majority of fans imo would have been in uproar if we hadn't appealed regardless of the cost...I certainly would have.
So easy to be critical once the outcome / verdict is know n I'm not so sure that many fans thot that the clubs legal team had some secret weapon up their sleeve. I thought the decision to appeal was based on the legal team thinking they had a very strong case/ argument to overturn the points deduction...as it turned out we didn't but would have been gutted if we hadn't tried.

The grounds for a successful appeal were there in black and white prior to the case being heard and were mentioned by administrators and the lawyer and people commented on here as a result that they must have some nugget of evidence we didn't know about in order to be confident.
Then the case was heard and they just presented a load of evidence that they'd already said weren't grounds for a successful appeal.
We as supporters were shafted but nothing that happened was grounds for an appeal as unfair and truly shitty as that was and still is

 

[Mighty Bongsmon]

It can only be seen as a positive if it is seen to be consistent - it's clearly not.
The prospective owners have stated they have demonstrated this, the EFL have not denied it which surely if it where the case they would delight in doing.
It's clearly one rule for Latics and one for everyone else.
Otherwise why would the EFL not offered us a loan to avoid admin?
That would have avoided the undeserved relegation and landed us a new order in short order.

For starters the EFL weren't aware of the administration until it happened and was legally started so giving us a loan would not have stopped anything.
Secondly no institution gives a loan to a company in administration as that is the owners admitting they can't pay their creditors so why would any institution volunteer to become their main creditor when there was no likelihood that they could ever get that money back.
If clubs have been given loans by the EFL it is far further down the covid road than back in July and they will have had to show repayment plans - how could Latics have shown any kind of repayment plan when the owner had said he wasn't putting a penny more in and when without those pennies the club was no longer a going concern.

The EFL cocked up big time with the NLF and then Au Yeung sales process but ultimately they got through the new owners tets agreed to by all 72 member clubs.
There's no conspiracy against us by the EFL and crying conspiracy theories where there is none for me just weakens the valid arguments we do have
Like C Latic says vent against the bastard and his business partner he didn't really know who did this to us not the EFL

 

[jocklatic]

The grounds for a successful appeal were there in black and white prior to the case being heard and were mentioned by administrators and the lawyer and people commented on here as a result that they must have some nugget of evidence we didn't know about in order to be confident.
Then the case was heard and they just presented a load of evidence that they'd already said weren't grounds for a successful appeal.
We as supporters were shafted but nothing that happened was grounds for an appeal as unfair and truly shitty as that was and still is

As I've said....with the benefits of hindsight anyone can become right & be in the 'I told you so' club. Imagine the uproar if we hadn't appealed.

 

[TRUE BELIEVER]

As I've said....with the benefits of hindsight anyone can become right & be in the 'I told you so' club. Imagine the uproar if we hadn't appealed.

The appeal was a gamble. It was there for a purpose and that purpose was simply the necessity for us to be in the championship to fulfil the demands of the original accepted bidder. The appeal was lost, the bidder pulled out and the rest is history.

Had we won the appeal there would have been a new owner in place much earlier and we would probably have kept most of our squad together and be competing well in the Championship.

Was the appeal worth it?........ For me, a definite YES.

 

[FrancosLoveChild]

The appeal was a gamble. It was there for a purpose and that purpose was simply the necessity for us to be in the championship to fulfil the demands of the original accepted bidder. The appeal was lost, the bidder pulled out and the rest is history.

Had we won the appeal there would have been a new owner in place much earlier and we would probably have kept most of our squad together and be competing well in the Championship.

Was the appeal worth it?........ For me, a definite YES.

Sadly god forbid if another club goes into admin and they appeal successfully then we have every right to be angry. Our appeal was the strongest case that could ever be given to the panel. It makes appealing admin pointless. I do wonder if a big club who appealed would have a different result? Sounds stupid, but being in our position it sure would feel like that.

 

[jocklatic]

Sadly god forbid if another club goes into admin and they appeal successfully then we have every right to be angry. Our appeal was the strongest case that could ever be given to the panel. It makes appealing admin pointless. I do wonder if a big club who appealed would have a different result? Sounds stupid, but being in our position it sure would feel like that.

Ive Said that all along Franco, if a big club did go into admin imo the EFL / PL would be all over it trying to explore every avenue to get them out of it / avoid punishment. Think we have every right to feel aggrieved despite posters on here saying 'oh well we went into admin, we take our punishment & nothing else we can do about it'.....

 

[Mighty Bongsmon]

As I've said....with the benefits of hindsight anyone can become right & be in the 'I told you so' club. Imagine the uproar if we hadn't appealed.

In all honesty, TB has worded it better than me in his reply - The £500k spend was worth it as we had to try every alleyway to try & maintain our Championship status and I agreed with it but assumed they had some secret weapon or info in reserve.
In reality though with the information that was in the public domain the appeal stood no chance of success & as it happened what was presented in the appeal was all in the public domain (with the possible exception that Au Yeung had actually approached the administrators the day before he was even confirmed as sole owner of NLF)

 

[Mighty Bongsmon]

Sadly god forbid if another club goes into admin and they appeal successfully then we have every right to be angry. Our appeal was the strongest case that could ever be given to the panel. It makes appealing admin pointless. I do wonder if a big club who appealed would have a different result? Sounds stupid, but being in our position it sure would feel like that.

No club has ever succesfully appealed the administration penalties - Leeds United are a "big club" and they were punished, appealed & were unsuccessful.
Our appeal wasn't "the strongest case that could ever be given to the panel" - we were shafted by a dodgy owner without doubt, but as the rules and punishments of the EFL stand at the moment, as I've said previously, all the clubs agreed to these including Latics, that's irrelevant & the actions of the owner & "the club" are inseparable to the league.
It doesn't make the rules right & the circumstances of our administration weren't what the admin rules & punishment were set up to govern/prevent but they are what the rules are.
I think the EFL aren't fit to govern but ultimately to change the rules about who is & isn't allowed to own a football club & how a club in administration is punished it needs the agreement & co-operation of the current clubs and their owners and there's not a cat in hell's chance of that happening as was discussed around the time of our punishment & appeal that would be like turkeys voting for Xmas & would prevent many of them from being able to offload their clubs when they get bored of them - that's why it didn't happen after Bury, Bolton, Latics or Macclesfield & why it won't happen when the next club bites the dust or comes close
But all this "we only got punished coz it was us & they wouldn't have done it to a big club" is just rubbish & has echoes of the moans about ref's being biased against us in the top flight & then the same people saying the ref's were biased against us in Lge1 coz we were a big club. Conspiracy theory rubbish IMO

 

[Arthur_Itis]

As I've said....with the benefits of hindsight anyone can become right & be in the 'I told you so' club. Imagine the uproar if we hadn't appealed.

This is rehashing old ground but hey ho, it's Friday evening during lockdown and I've nothing better to do.

Does anyone get credit for the benefit of foresight Jock as well as being dismissed due to the benefit of hindsight. ?
I argued on here pre appeal that from what I had read of the EFL regulations I couldn't see how an appeal could be successful in our situation and I argued that the money would be wasted and could be better spent elsewhere. I had good debates at the time with some posters, particularly MiW if my memory serves me right, but others ridiculed and insulted me to the point where I gave up and ended my part in the debate with a final declaration that "we would lose the appeal and waste a load of money" BEFORE it happened. Incredibly, after the event I too was then labelled as being smug with the benefit of hindsight. It still rankles, hence this irrelevant and unnecessary post today.

 

[jocklatic]

This is rehashing old ground but hey ho, it's Friday evening during lockdown and I've nothing better to do.

Does anyone get credit for the benefit of foresight Jock as well as being dismissed due to the benefit of hindsight. ?
I argued on here pre appeal that from what I had read of the EFL regulations I couldn't see how an appeal could be successful in our situation and I argued that the money would be wasted and could be better spent elsewhere. I had good debates at the time with some posters, particularly MiW if my memory serves me right, but others ridiculed and insulted me to the point where I gave up and ended my part in the debate with a final declaration that "we would lose the appeal and waste a load of money" BEFORE it happened. Incredibly, after the event I too was then labelled as being smug with the benefit of hindsight. It still rankles, hence this irrelevant and unnecessary post today.

Fair play Arthur if you did say this at the outset prior to our appeal ( I'm not doubting you did say this btw)....I would have at the time of your post(s) probably argued against your position & I get your point that you 'gave up' after being ridiculed but just think majority of posters on here were willing to try anything to get our 12 point penalty rescinded...imo btw

 

[moonay]

I argued on here pre appeal that from what I had read of the EFL regulations I couldn't see how an appeal could be successful in our situation and I argued that the money would be wasted and could be better spent elsewhere. I had good debates at the time with some posters, particularly MiW if my memory serves me right, but others ridiculed and insulted me to the point where I gave up and ended my part in the debate with a final declaration that "we would lose the appeal and waste a load of money" BEFORE it happened..

I think I remember that discussion Arthur, as I think I was one who disagreed with you .......... hopefully not in a nasty way - not that I recall anyway. There's rarely any excuse for insults and name calling.

As per the discussion with Mighty Bongsmon the last few days, I'm personally still baffled how the panel didn't think it appropriate to reduce the penalty, given the circumstances........... but that's just me.

 

[Hampton]

For starters the EFL weren't aware of the administration until it happened and was legally started so giving us a loan would not have stopped anything.
Secondly no institution gives a loan to a company in administration as that is the owners admitting they can't pay their creditors so why would any institution volunteer to become their main creditor when there was no likelihood that they could ever get that money back.
If clubs have been given loans by the EFL it is far further down the covid road than back in July and they will have had to show repayment plans - how could Latics have shown any kind of repayment plan when the owner had said he wasn't putting a penny more in and when without those pennies the club was no longer a going concern.

The EFL cocked up big time with the NLF and then Au Yeung sales process but ultimately they got through the new owners tets agreed to by all 72 member clubs.
There's no conspiracy against us by the EFL and crying conspiracy theories where there is none for me just weakens the valid arguments we do have
Like C Latic says vent against the bastard and his business partner he didn't really know who did this to us not the EFL

Thanks Rick but I've made my mind up about the machinations of the EFL ta