Same Old, Same Old

[EagerExile]

Leaky defence, poor finishing (Eaves especially at fault), no shape to our play - an overall easy touch. Rochdale won't have a simpler win all season. Can't fault the players for effort today (no one had a mare), but the lack of quality is plain to see. I can see why Lovell is raging against the players, but he's singularly failed to find a system that works. Teams just play through us.

I really had a little hope that we'd be better this season, but it looks like yet another battle against the drop. This time I really fear for us. You could see the players' self-belief evaporating in front of us. To survive, they need to perform at their very best, and they're not. The chairman has to take some blame. We clearly haven't invested enough in this squad and as a club we're going backwards. It's really no fun being a Gills fan at the moment.

 

[Brexiteer]

The Chairman doesn't scout or encourage players to join. As SL has said he scouts and recommends players. He's gone for youth and lost experience. Too many of his signings are not yet good enough for League 1.
He's also being out witted tactically, we're handing out points to clubs around us with poor records until they play us.

 

[Archiepoptart]

Deja vu for me. Damien Richardson had very similar problems back in the day.

 

[DurhamGills]

But the Chairman does provide the budget ffs Scally has not provided Gills with a budget to compete in League one, it's a joke really. It's like banging your head against a brick wall.

I'm not saying Lovell is immune from criticism tactically he is looking jaded and publically slating players is not cool.

Yesterday had nothing to do with budget (we do have a budget to compete in this division albeit in the lower half) yesterday was about tactics, organization, players wandering around like lost sheep and again not having a plan B, mind you plan A was pretty poor.

If I was one of the players I would be pretty pissed off by now

PS A budget can only be set at the level the club can afford, we dont have a sugar daddy and no one is taking millions out of the business or building a big bank account.

 

[markinkent]

PS A budget can only be set at the level the club can afford, we dont have a sugar daddy and no one is taking millions out of the business or building a big bank account.

Agreed you can only set a paying budget that we can afford. Question is how much is being spent / put aside on the new stadium design, planning process or traveling hunting for new investors.

Maybe time to put that on hold and invest what little we have in a team that is always struggling at the bottom of league one. We don't need a new stadium when we are struggling to put 5000 in the current one.

The team needs to be on the rise, challenging for promotion to the championship before we need to worry about running out of space in a 10000 stadium.

Invest in the team, get the interest back, get the fans back and then look to expand. Otherwise we will do a Darlington and have a shiny bowl with no one in it.

Sometimes the hardest thing in life is to admit someone can do it better than you. Maybe it is time for Scally to offer to sell up - no strings attached i.e. he accepts a realistic valuation and walks away. He isn't the worst owner by a long way but it seems he can't progress us any further. That's not his fault, he has done a better job than anyone of us probably could, but it looks as if he can't take us any further.

Everyone can see that our squad was assembled as non league / league 2 standard. We are going to reap what we sow. Going back to league 2 and challenging at the top wouldn't be a disaster. Going back to league 2 and struggling could well be !

 

[Captainreblue]

Yesterday had nothing to do with budget (we do have a budget to compete in this division albeit in the lower half) yesterday was about tactics, organization, players wandering around like lost sheep and again not having a plan B, mind you plan A was pretty poor.

If I was one of the players I would be pretty pissed off by now

PS A budget can only be set at the level the club can afford, we dont have a sugar daddy and no one is taking millions out of the business or building a big bank account.

But if you're a player with any kind of character you'd use your 'pissed offness' (yes I just made up a word) to show the manager that you are good enough, you do deserve to be in the team, you can play at this level, you can improve, you're going to work and train even harder, you're going to run your bollocks off and prove him wrong, not sulk, down tools, not give a shit and hope the manager gets the sack.

Why should players be immune from public criticism, unless your of weak character and to precious to take it on the chin and show the manager he's wrong.

If Scally had stuck to budgets that the club can afford Durham we would never have had the Championship days so that bollocks for starters. The fact is now Scally has no option/choice but to pay/spend what we can afford due to the financial mismanagement in the past that lead to our debt restructuring that now leaves us with no option of borrowing money. Spending money the club doesn't have or can afford has never stopped him before, the only reason he won't now is because he can't.

 

[DurhamGills]

If Scally had stuck to budgets that the club can afford Durham we would never have had the Championship days so that bollocks for starters. The fact is now Scally has no option/choice but to pay/spend what we can afford due to the financial mismanagement in the past that lead to our debt restructuring that now leaves us with no option of borrowing money. Spending money the club doesn't have or can afford has never stopped him before, the only reason he won't now is because he can't.

So you want the club to go through the same issues we had post championship - madness.

Things have changed in 20 years - PS has not spent money we don't have since those days and yes banks are not willing to just chuck money at any club and when loans are taken often goes wrong - Look at Villa and Bolton.

Financial mismanagement - how can that be leveled at PS, as a club we don`t have much pulling power and we never will but we are still alive and kicking . Chucking money at a club does not always work - Basildon is a good example and Ebbsfllet are not getting the success they tried to buy.

 

[Skullduggery Pleasan]

My view on yesterday was that in terms of skill level, we could easily compete with Rochdale. However we were severely lacking in fitness, organisation and desire. And as the game went on it became more apparent. We could still be out on the pitch now and wouldn't have scored.

So, was it Eaves fault? In my book, absolutely not. Yet again, he was so isolated up front. A huge gap between him and the midfield. He also had to contend with a physical centre back and a ref who didn't seem to see all the shirt tugging going on - that got more blatant as the game went on as Rochdale realised how much they could get away with on Eaves (oddly, not a lot on anyone else). It's actually a credit to Tom that he didn't lose his cool and get sent off.

You could see the levels of skill we have got in Eaves' run down the left early in the game when he went past the Rochdale guy right on the byline before crossing. Likewise with his shot that hit the bar after Parker had run at their defence. And as I've said before, Eaves isn't the quickest. Yet he can still do that.

Parker and List somehow summed it up for me. Rather than playing 2 up front, Parker was generally in midfield and looked a bit lost. If he'd gone up to support Eaves, we would have been light in midfield and he'd have been isolated too. Such was the closeness of our midfield to the back 4. But you could see in brief cameos that the combination of the two of them causes quite a few problems for opposing defences.

When Parker came off and List came on, I was expecting the latter to run at the defence. However, he ended up with the same problem Parker had and as such he drifted out of the game too.

There's a programme starting on Channel 4 soon that has people communicating only via social media even though they are going to live in the same block of flats. It is probably modelled on our team because there appears to be absolutely no understanding of where teammates are likely to be. Do they actually practice together? It's been said elsewhere that no-one could be faulted for effort. While I'm not sure if that's completely correct, there was certainly a lot of running around at times with no end product. Often we'd won the ball in a tackle but had no-one making space to pass to.

But, there were times when we just strolled around. It would be easy to criticise Holy for continually kicking the ball upfield towards the isolated Eaves. However, on most occasions he had no choice. Absolutely no-one was trying to find space, standing statically usually with a Rochdale guy lurking nearby so that Holy had very little option. Reminded me of a game (Scunthorpe?) when Nelson had made a save and rushed to the front of the area to set up a quick counter and realised that he was the most forward player in our team!

It's very much a case of déjà vu. We started off the season looking useful against Accrington and showed real fighting spirit against Burton. Then. Absolute shambles. I'm tempted to think that there is the mysterious "something" going on at the club (no good asking Durham as he knows a lot less than he thinks he does I reckon). By and large this is a Lovell type of team. But not Lovell type tactics. It's more like Taylor's. I'm tempted to wonder if the apparent reappearance of Lord Beckett or whatever he calls himself today has something to do with it.

For me the MOM for us was Barry Fuller. I was exceptionally sceptical about his signing. Too old and "never look back" came to mind. But this isn't the first time he's looked like the only guy ready to bust a gut for the team. There's something rotten in the state of Gillingham (to paraphrase Hamlet).

EDIT - why was it that the more the game went on, the less we won 50:50 headers in midfield? We were quite simply out jumped almost all of the time. We were also slow, more often than not, the Rochdale guys would go faster with the ball than we could without it.

 

[Hardy31]

"EDIT - why was it that the more the game went on, the less we won 50:50 headers in midfield? We were quite simply out jumped almost all of the time. We were also slow, more often than not, the Rochdale guys would go faster with the ball than we could without it."

Something to do with the state of the pitch?

 

[Captainreblue]

So you want the club to go through the same issues we had post championship - madness.

Things have changed in 20 years - PS has not spent money we don't have since those days and yes banks are not willing to just chuck money at any club and when loans are taken often goes wrong - Look at Villa and Bolton.

Financial mismanagement - how can that be leveled at PS, as a club we don`t have much pulling power and we never will but we are still alive and kicking . Chucking money at a club does not always work - Basildon is a good example and Ebbsfllet are not getting the success they tried to buy.

The reason we had financial issues post championship is because of PS financial mis management in the early years spending way beyond what we could afford (both on and off the pitch) and as a result of the debt and ultimate debt restructuring it has left us where we are today, without a pot to poss in and no ability to borrow.

If we are in such a financial strong position and on such a stable footing as a club as PS claims, why can we not borrow money? Because of our debt restructuring we are a no no to lenders now.

Getting a club into £13m debt is financial mismanagement. Given the transfer fees/ add on payments on top that we've received during PS time at GFC that is scandalous to still run up a £13m debt. The fact we have been into administration is more by luck than good judgement/financial management.

Our current competitive budget includes a reliance on us getting in £500k from transfers. That is not sustainable on any level, so our actual budget is 500k lower than we can actually afford as we're adding in a predicted income.

 

[DurhamGills]

The reason we had financial issues post championship is because of PS financial mis management in the early years spending way beyond what we could afford (both on and off the pitch) and as a result of the debt and ultimate debt restructuring it has left us where we are today, without a pot to poss in and no ability to borrow.

If we are in such a financial strong position and on such a stable footing as a club as PS claims, why can we not borrow money? Because of our debt restructuring we are a no no to lenders now.

Getting a club into £13m debt is financial mismanagement. Given the transfer fees/ add on payments on top that we've received during PS time at GFC that is scandalous to still run up a £13m debt. The fact we have been into administration is more by luck than good judgement/financial management.

Our current competitive budget includes a reliance on us getting in £500k from transfers. That is not sustainable on any level, so our actual budget is 500k lower than we can actually afford as we're adding in a predicted income.

He may have got us into debt but he also got us out of it and in a reasonably stable position - you dont borrow to put it in the playing budget as if you get it wrong you have no way to pay it back.

There are always lenders and it can go wrong - look at Bolton but with the uncertainty surrounding Brexit I would not borrow one penny.

If its goes wrong its a long way back - Stockport who were our first game in the championship line us next week in the FA cup against South Shields

As many have said our performance on Saturday and previous weeks has been nothing to do with budget

 

[markinkent]

As many have said our performance on Saturday and previous weeks has been nothing to do with budget

I don't think you can say that.

Our recruitment in the summer was resigning players from last season (Reilley, Nas, Zak, Byrne etc.) Players who were part of a team that just escaped relegation. We then added unproven youngsters (RCC, Hanlan, List etc). Even Parrat and Fuller (arguably two of our better players) came from a team fighting league one relegation.

I don't think we strengthened in the summer and despite what Lovell will say publicly about being happy with the squad I suspect he was constrained by a further reduced budget.

If you are saying a better manager could get more out of this squad then we won't know until SL leaves.

Bottom line is that in my view our budget is why we have struggled for the last few seasons.

Maybe that's just how it is and we need to drop down to league 2 to be competitive again. Lets just hope we are down there. Clubs like us have fallen through the trap door before.

 

[Captainreblue]

Your first paragraph sums up exactly what Scally did in the early days. How in his second season in charge then did GFC afford the likes of Ashy,Butters,Hess,Smith and the like if it was solely out of our budget and not borrowed money? That money was not money we could afford and it snow balled from there, in the wrong direction on the balance sheet. Now we are reaping what PS sowed over the years. As you say its a long way back, we just haven't fallen as far as some have, but will PS ever be in a position to take the club forward, no, because he's burnt all financial bridges and the terms he's offering investors is clearly not in the investors interests, otherwise he would have found someone in 20 odd years of looking. The only way we move forward on the pitch is with some investment (or at least a chance to) is with someone else at the helm.

Agree some of the performances haven't been down to budget, and I've been critical of SL and the players, and being organised doesn't cost money, but quality wins you games, and that costs money, either in wages or transfer fees (or both) and wedding have any money to pay those wages or fees under PS, simple. If you keep recruiting lower league one or league two players that's normally where you end up, and surprisingly that's where we are and have been over the last few years and may be heading.

As well as Stockport (and Torquay) in the Championship in our first year, so were Fulham and Huddersfield and look where they are now.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

I don't think you can say that.

Our recruitment in the summer was resigning players from last season (Reilley, Nas, Zak, Byrne etc.) Players who were part of a team that just escaped relegation. We then added unproven youngsters (RCC, Hanlan, List etc). Even Parrat and Fuller (arguably two of our better players) came from a team fighting league one relegation.

I don't think we strengthened in the summer and despite what Lovell will say pub.

Our squad is basically the same squad that under Lovell taking over went on the sort of run that had people quietly wondering if we could sneak into the play offs. The few players we did leave were the often absent injury prone like Morris and Wagstaff or fringe players like Ben Nugent.

On the whole I don't think our team is any weaker from that purple patch and with the return of the likes of Bingham who was looking useful until his injury then it could be argued we are marginally stronger.

The question for me is what was Lovell doing during that purple patch that he isn't doing now.

 

[markinkent]

Our squad is basically the same squad that under Lovell taking over went on the sort of run that had people quietly wondering if we could sneak into the play offs. .

That same group then went on the awful run from January last year which to be honest is continuing now if we were to think that Burton and Accrington were blips, albeit positive ones.

I am looking at the teams performance since the start of 2018. Its not looking great.

 

[DurhamGills]

I don't think you can say that.

Your first paragraph sums up exactly what Scally did in the early days. How in his second season in charge then did GFC afford the likes of Ashy,Butters,Hess,Smith and the like if it was solely out of our budget and not borrowed money? That money was not money we could afford and it snow balled from there, in the wrong direction on the balance sheet. Now we are reaping what PS sowed over the years. As you say its a long way back, we just haven't fallen as far as some have, but will PS ever be in a position to take the club forward, no, because he's burnt all financial bridges and the terms he's offering investors is clearly not in the investors interests, otherwise he would have found someone in 20 odd years of looking. The only way we move forward on the pitch is with some investment (or at least a chance to) is with someone else at the helm.

Agree some of the performances haven't been down to budget, and I've been critical of SL and the players, and being organised doesn't cost money, but quality wins you games, and that costs money, either in wages or transfer fees (or both) and wedding have any money to pay those wages or fees under PS, simple. If you keep recruiting lower league one or league two players that's normally where you end up, and surprisingly that's where we are and have been over the last few years and may be heading.

As well as Stockport (and Torquay) in the Championship in our first year, so were Fulham and Huddersfield and look where they are now.

No it was mostly money he spent based on income promised from TV that did not materialize for what ever reason - that is history and IF we wanted a loan lenders are there but the interest rate would be high and far to big a risk.

If we we had more money I would hope he would go for a more experienced manager, cant risk giving money to someone who may not use it wisely

Yes we could do with better quality but that wont help us win matches when we are so disorganized.

I go back far enough to when both Fulham and Huddersfield (and Luton) where div 1 sides so they have just fought back - look at Sunderland, money does guarantee you anything

 

[nitram77]

The question for me is what was Lovell doing during that purple patch that he isn't doing now.

I mentioned in a earlier thread that it's all fine margins, here are 3 matches from our purple patch.

Walsall 0 - 1 Gillingham.
Gillingham had 37% possession with 3 shots and 2 on target.
Walsall had 21 shots with 6 on target.
a real backs to the wall performance with Holy playing a blinder.

Blackpool 1 - 1 Gillingham.
Gillingham had 45% of the possession 9 shots and 2 on target.
Blackpool had 21 shots 9 on target.
Another battle with Holy playing a blinder.

Gillingham 4 - 1 Bristol Rovers.
Gillingham had 47% possession with 19 shots and 8 on target.
Bristol had 14 shots 7 on target.
Gillingham played well but the final score was very screwed in our
favour, it was never a 4 - 1.

3 matches and we were lucky in at least 2 of them.

 

[Captainreblue]

No it was mostly money he spent based on income promised from TV that did not materialize for what ever reason - that is history and IF we wanted a loan lenders are there but the interest rate would be high and far to big a risk.

If we we had more money I would hope he would go for a more experienced manager, cant risk giving money to someone who may not use it wisely

Yes we could do with better quality but that wont help us win matches when we are so disorganized.

I go back far enough to when both Fulham and Huddersfield (and Luton) where div 1 sides so they have just fought back - look at Sunderland, money does guarantee you anything

Durham, you are talking out your arse, again. We had spent big sums of money on transfer fees and in big wages (at the time) and long contracts on Paul Smith, Hess, Ashby, Butters, Akinbiyi, SBT and Asaba, long before the itv digital 3 year deal had even been announced (deal was only announced in june 2000) , a deal that didn't start until the 2001/02 season. So what tv deal are you on about?

Added to the fact that PS has repeatedly denied we spent any of the ITV digital money before we received it, unless like you it suits his argument, then we did spend it.

The fact is history tells us that PS is quite happy to spend other people's money, and the fact is now he can't we haven't got a very good budget.

So a quality player (maybe a Chris Hope or an experienced player) wouldn't help us or get us better organised, or help on a creative front. If you don't think that money would help, not cure, but help our current plight or give us a better chance you really are living in cookoo land. The more quality you can get in your team the better you will be, whether that be in defence, midfield or up front, but as I've said that costs money, money we don't have. If PS provides that, as he did with JED PS will be able to say I backed the manager with a decent budget, something he cannot say under AP or SL IMO, but we all know the backing of JED was his hoorah and gamble for the Championship to sell the club

 

[kettners]

So Nitram- those stats are interesting. It all ultimately boils down to the fact that no matter how many shots or possession you have. Its what you do with it i.e. simply stick it in the net. I think thats what we did V Accrington and Burton and we put the pressure on the opposition. We had the chances yesterday in Eaves and Reilly. Neither hit the target.
We don't have any real goalscorers who will chip in 10 -15 goals other than Eaves and Parker. If they dry up which they have we are stuffed.
Ehmer used to score the 4/5 and he hasn't scored for a few seasons.
WE have no goal scoring midfielders like Dack , Martin or Wright and I think this is a big issue.

 

[Lark]

We don't have any real goalscorers who will chip in 10 -15 goals other than Eaves and Parker. If they dry up which they have we are stuffed.
Ehmer used to score the 4/5 and he hasn't scored for a few seasons.
WE have no goal scoring midfielders like Dack , Martin or Wright and I think this is a big issue.

Players that can score a lot at our level are expensive, we don’t have the budget to afford them. Akinbyi cost £250k, Asaba £600k, Taylor £500k. They were not players who had only scored a couple of goals on loan to non league teams the season before we got them on frees, neither had they been been rejected by League 2 clubs or foreign teams as not good enough (our recent recruitment).

Dack came through our development squad having been released by Charlton when a teenager, So is something of an exception, but we don’t appear to have anyone else coming through who will be able to score regularly at this level.