Saints; Credit where it's due, Boy did we miss a trick! | Page 2 | Vital Football

Saints; Credit where it's due, Boy did we miss a trick!

Lol.

At this level we should develop and then blood as soon as possible for me...

Yep as a club the size and stature isnt like most league two clubs but facts of the matter we ARE a league two club and very, very few take an approach of loaning them out to other clubs to give them their 1st team break, they give them their break where they are.
 
Now Alan Shearer says : "Southampton are a model for other English clubs" on the BBC site.

He said "one of the reasons" he chose to join Southampton as a schoolboy in 1986 was they have "always given players a chance".

"That started with Danny Wallace, Steve Williams, Matt Le Tissier, myself, Rod Wallace, Bale, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott - and the guys coming through now like Lallana, Shaw and Ward-Prowse," he added.

"That hasn't just happened this season, it's been happening for years. It's incredible and a model that a lot of people should look at."

Are you reading this, Guy?
 
Shame it took Saints to get into the premiership before Shearer would speak up about his time there ... Everybody likes to attach themselves to success ....

Over that period of time we can claim a few too .. maybe not England internationals but our sights were set different then but Begovic, Wilson, Pearce are all fully established premiership players two of which are solid Internationals.. and we've got Williams and Magri still to come through ... and what about Gary O'Neil & Nadir Çiftçi - It is easy to compare and forget what we have done

Not taking anything away from Saints but everybody can claim some success in this area .. Saints do blood earlier than Pompey and they do have great facilities .. but Pompeys Academy is NOT poor .. In fact as Blue stays if Guy bloods more we can bring some through and maybe sell a few on like Saints have had to do

Now wouldn't it be funny if Jed Wallace was the next Gareth Bale !


 
Pains me to say it but we dont really compare to scum on this level and the level of success of their players that have come through is vastly superior to ours lets face it....
 
I think you guys are giving far too much credit to them .. that's not to say they don't deserve some .. but Oxlaide chamberlain only went to Scum coz Harry Sacked his dad and that also force Ward-Prowse decision .. It wasn't all their doing.

The current academies meet at St. Marys in a few weeks in a cup match and if anybody want's to join me I'll happily pay your entrance fee if Pompey lose.

It is easy to hold Saints up as wonderful but given the past five years we've had .. we aint that far behind .. Training facilities and blooding players apart ..... Talent wise we are only just behind.

Please stop putting them on a pedestal blindly ... (in terms of talent)
 
Had Redknapp not sacked Chamberlain do we REALLY think that Redknapp would have given Oxlade Chamerlain his break... lets not overlook Redknapp's track record with NOT wanting to play youngsters.

The likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain and Ward-Prowse, had they come through our academy almost certainly wouldnt have ever been given a chance, if they had they would have been sold for peanuts or money used simply to line some dodgy basards pockets...

What about Gareth Bale, isnt he the worlds most expensive (or thereabouts) player? And where did he come from.

Begovic is arguably the best player we have produced in years, Pack, Ritchie, Ward, Wallace (potentially right up there in talent terms), Butler etc are good but do not compare with the likes of talent that Scum have coming through now and Lallana, Ward-Prowse, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc. that would have come through around the same time as Ward et al.

I sincerely hope that our academy is now on a sound footing, and we are going to give it the neccessary time and attention, and not just money, to make it work but were still streets behind them and will be for many a year.

As far as the current crop of academy players each club goes, I do not really think that any of us are in a position to judge as we do not follow both (or either) close enough do we. Whoever wins that game might not neccessarily be the better side mind...
 
Chix - 23/11/2013 10:24

I think you guys are giving far too much credit to them .. that's not to say they don't deserve some .. but Oxlaide chamberlain only went to Scum coz Harry Sacked his dad and that also force Ward-Prowse decision .. It wasn't all their doing.

The current academies meet at St. Marys in a few weeks in a cup match and if anybody want's to join me I'll happily pay your entrance fee if Pompey lose.

It is easy to hold Saints up as wonderful but given the past five years we've had .. we aint that far behind .. Training facilities and blooding players apart ..... Talent wise we are only just behind.

Please stop putting them on a pedestal blindly ... (in terms of talent)
Click to expand...

Finally tho Chixy, isnt the whole point of an academy not to produce 'talent'?

If they have done this time and time again surely they are not on any pedestal undeservingly...
 
pompeyrug - 23/11/2013 11:30

Chix - 23/11/2013 10:24

I think you guys are giving far too much credit to them .. that's not to say they don't deserve some .. but Oxlaide chamberlain only went to Scum coz Harry Sacked his dad and that also force Ward-Prowse decision .. It wasn't all their doing.

The current academies meet at St. Marys in a few weeks in a cup match and if anybody want's to join me I'll happily pay your entrance fee if Pompey lose.

It is easy to hold Saints up as wonderful but given the past five years we've had .. we aint that far behind .. Training facilities and blooding players apart ..... Talent wise we are only just behind.

Please stop putting them on a pedestal blindly ... (in terms of talent)
Click to expand...

Finally tho Chixy, isnt the whole point of an academy not to produce 'talent'?

If they have done this time and time again surely they are not on any pedestal undeserving...
Click to expand...

Missing my point Rug ... They have hardly produced more than us .. Take one exception (Bale) outta the equation and we can match them man for man .. .. So maybe the pedestal is for Bale
 
Are we talking quantity or quality tho Chix?

If you are talking quantity then perhaps Scum have not produced any more than us!

If we are talking quality to this quantity then stats do not like my friend, Scum have produced both that we cannot compete with and cannot look to argue the toss that we can...

Just look at their XI most weeks this season, definitely their squad, and how many of that has come through their academy add to the mix Bale (absolutely no two ways about it out of this world class), Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc. etc. and there is just no basis to an argument that they deserve this pedestal they are on.
 
Do you honestly believe that Chix? I find that very hard to believe!
I'm staggered to think regardless of how Blue any of us are, that a single one of us can hand on heart stand there and say that we've produced man to man Bale excepted, as many players of a good standard as them lot.
I'm sorry Chix I can't agree with your view on this
 
Ok .. Ii think I've said (but haven't re-read what I typed) we are not that far away.

You name the Saints players (Bale excluded - Rugs correct he can grace any pitch in the world and is special) and I'll do my best to match them man for man .. I'm happy to be wrong but I think you will be surprised... Let's examine the facts

I can think of ... Premiership...

Walcott - left Saints 7 years ago - 36 International Games
Oxlaide-Chamberlain - left Saints 2 years ago - 13 Internationals
Ward-Prowse - Still at Saints (not a regular) - 0 Internationals
Lallana - Still at Saints - 1 International


I match these with
Asmir Begovic - left Pompey 3 years ago - 27 Internationals
Marc Wilson - left Pompey 3 years ago - 12 Internationals
Jason Pearce - left Pompey 1 year ago - 0 internationals
Nadir Ciftci - left Pompey - 3 years ago - 0 internationals (SPL)

By all means add in some more Saints players that perhaps I don't know ... But I think

Begovic trumps Walcott on Talent and Potential
Wilson trumps Ox-Chamb on Talent Ox has edge (just on potential
Ward trumps Ward Prowse on Talent (just) and Potential
Lallana trumps Ciftci on Talent and potential

I've currently gone back 7 years to include Walcott and have a few more Pompey players up my sleeve .. but international wise we are very close .. .. Quality wise we are ahead... but potential behind and (I think) if I added up premiership appearances Pompey would be in the lead .. at the moment.

As I said please add some Saints players I don't know about to the mix so I have something to compare to... As you can imagine I'm not up on all things Scum ...

I think I have been fair in my assessment but rather than debate then just yet .. lets get some more Saints names on the table .. if there are some.

(Liking this debate) :14:
 
Like penton says its basically subjective.

I know the likes of Anderton, Powell, Awford, Knight, Symons etc. etc. for us will come along then the Wallace brothers, Le Tissier's, Shearer's will come out as we look further back.

Comparing players from different positions isnt doable.

All in all and I think I am just going to have to back off from this one and say we are are gonna have to agree to disagree on this issue...
 
So ... those that make the point ever so strongly can not back it up ..

Sorry guys your failure to back your own argument is very poor so I am claiming Victory in the debate :5:

All in all I do agree it is of course subjective (but it is also fun) and as I said someway back in response to Pentons original comment I think we should give ...."Credit where it's due" ... but I don't think we should be in awe of them or put our our team down ... As I said we are not that far away.. apart from the facilities .... but our player are joking about our new building .... The Jed Wallace Transfer Profit Training Ground
 
Chix it's nothing to do with putting them on a pedestal, merely stated that they have an enviable record with home grown youngsters.
I'm not going to get into a tit for tat debate with you over who's better who's best, because before we set out you are always going to be right in your opinion so it makes a debate pointless, I don't have the will or inclination to get into a pointless game of top trumps with you.
One thing I will say, in all of the replies I've read re the article in the different outlets, yours is a lone voice. Everyone else although perhaps begrudgingly, has admitted the main point of the original article.
 
Penton .. You are only reading what you want to ...

I said this in my last post ....

<b>and as I said someway back in response to Pentons original comment I think we should give ...."Credit where it's due" ... but I don't think we should be in awe of them or put our our team down .</B>

The Pedestal point was a response to Rugs point who DOES feel they should be put on a pedestal .. I don't ...

Also I wasn't going tit for tat I actually said I was enjoying the debate but didn't expect to win ... I am disappointed however that you offer nothing (other than a comment) to support your point

I wasn't looking to fall out with you just share an opposing view ...

I can still be your friend .. even though you are wrong :59:

Group hug ? :55:
 
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