Saints; Credit where it's due, Boy did we miss a trick! | Vital Football

Saints; Credit where it's due, Boy did we miss a trick!

penton

Vital 1st Team Regular
Reading through The Game supplement in The Times on the Monday after the first weekend of Premier League season. My attention was taken by a small piece on the back page written by Bill Edgar entitled 'Teenage Kicks'.
After reading it, two things struck me. firstly even as an ardent Pompey fan, I have to admit I found myself full of admiration for the courage and willingness of the Saints management to use Youth.
Secondly, I was left feeling very flat about the way we have abandoned our Youth set up over the years, and how looking down the road, they have nurtured theirs and keep reeping the benefit.

For the first time in Premier League history; a team fielded THREE players aged 18 or younger!
Luke Shaw and Calum Chambers (Defenders) and James Ward-Prowse (Midfielder). We're all in the eleven which took on West Bromwich Albion at the Hawthorns, and even managed to squeak a late win out of it!
The following week, the three were again included in the side which grabbed a late equaliser against Sunderland.
Only five instances of two 18 and unders in a starting line up have ever happened and Everton account for three of those! Everton are another team, which seem to keep finding gems of youngsters and nurturing them into first teamers.
Perhaps it was the realisation that with a lack of funds at their disposal, that they would have to find their own and bring them through that prompted these impressive production lines.
Now we can all bait Southampton because of who they are, but the fact remains that we cannot deny that they have an impressive track record with youngsters. Gareth Bale might this week become the biggest success story of the lot! (I wonder if they unlike us included a sell on clause?)
Finally! through need rather than want, we are now bringing our own youngsters through the system.
Down at League Two level, this should be much easier to implement and we should in the long term benefit from this practice. With the Trust now owning the Club and of course them having the Club as their main objective, we should benefit from better sell on deals being arranged rather than the immediate transfer money being lost as was the case in past seasons.
The news rules regarding the bringing on of youngsters is weighted so heavily towards the big clubs that the likes of us won't any longer benefit as we once could of done, but we are in the position now of having to find our own talent, and it looks as they are starting to show throughout the side.
Not all youngsters make it, but fingers crossed we might just find a gem of our own and the sale of these kids could help us in our future rise from the ashes.
To go back to the reason for this thread, I can't help but doff my cap to the new Manager down the road, not only was he met with cries of who? When Adkins was shown the door. He steadied the ship at the end of the season, and indeed safely steered them away from the drop and a guaranteed windfall this season; but he starts the season with three kids in the starting line up! That shows a lot of balls in my opinion! I wish one or two of our past managers Mr Redkanapp and Cotterell to name but two had shown the same sort of courage. Apart from the obvious and the state we're in for our past demeanours, it's the lack of seeing our own talent run out in Royal Blue that's disappointed me the most, and I know from speaking too and reading the thoughts of many on here over the past 6/7years that a lot of you feel the same!
Whilst them down the road are wallowing in their own success and promising future, so must we! I've finally seen a glimmer of light at the end of this tunnel, and we too should be courageous and use our youth to bring through and help to build this club again. It's all about building for a bright future and if we give the right youngsters the chance to shine, we as a club can build and rise, and we too can look elsewhere with some pride knowing that they are forever Blue no matter where they end up, because their success could be building blocks for our future success and sustainability.

Here's to a brighter future, after all you can't win anything with kids as it was once so famously said!...Yeah right!
 
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well said Penton, and agree you DO have to give credit to the scummers... just imagine IF we had paid more attention to youth over the years the chances are the likes of walcott and oxlade-chamberlain would have come through our academy, maybe even bale?

written something on youth players and how we should use them but its roughly written and needs typing up, but in a nutshell IF a premier league side is willing to put in the youngsters surely clubs at league one and two should do the same - i do hope we are not moving away from a policy we operated last season, required or not...
 
Penton - a fantastic post mate. Rug - get it on the front page!

Completely agree. A youth academy is a gamble. For the money it costs to train on 20 kids, you can probably have 3 finished articles on the payroll. Now, none of those 20 may make it, but equally all 20 might. It is a gamble, but to me a gamble worth taking.

This comes back to the poor, short-termist management this club has had for, well, almost forever!

The trouble is, fans want success NOW! Fans on this very board are expecting automatic promotion & have money on it too. What time does that give Guy & team to allow kids to make a few mistakes as they learn?

Answer is, not a lot.

I would love to see 3 players that have come through the Pompey academy in the side every week, but if we demand automatic promotion, Guy has little option but to bring in ready-made players.

A great post Penton old chap.
 
Great post penton and one I thoroughly agree with. The problem is I think we needed the money to be invested in the Academy when we were in prem. Now, there are more pressing issues such as our "unsafe" stadium and servicing the CVA.
Maloney will be good. I've watched him a few times play for the Academy side and he has real potential. We all know Wallace has the ability and that Harris can score goals. Butler seemed out of his depth at the start of this season but he'll learn from it I hope. The issue is that, due to his mistakes, he now doesn't start games which, for his development, is surely counter productive.
Without having a reserve team, I think we have to be loaning more youngsters out. Its vital they get competitive football frequently.
Top post though Penton!
 
Thanks guys for the appreciation. I understand that it's a simplified view of the situation but I hope the general gist is followed.
I did think about going into more reasons and understandings of our failure to bring on more youngsters, but really long threads tend to put people off reading, even this might put most off at this length.
I hope posters can for once put aside their bias and admit that them down the road really do seem to have the knack for bringing on the kids and the benefit it brings long term.
I've been meaning to write it ever since I first read it, but what with being busy and then the Bank Holiday I thought it would get lost and ignored, so hence for its inclusion today.
I'm not saying it's in anyway an in-depth piece because it quite clearly isn't; but I do hope it at least triggers debate and gets us thinking about our own youngsters and how we could benefit in the future.
 
One of the guys I work with is a former professional footballer (Leicester a good few years back). His son is 'as good' according to him. He lives in Woking & is now at academy age.

He is looking at Southampton because they are seen as the best option for young kids. Pompey was "never an option".

It is a virtuous circle. They give kids a chance, so good kids pick them over other options. That means the kids who they play are worth the gamble.

We have seldom given kids a chance, so who would send their son to Portsmouth if Saints were knocking? Even Chamberlain, a former player & someone on the Pompey payroll sent his son to Saints!!

Like the film 'Field of dreams' said: If you build it, they will come. Build a nurturing environment & invest in it, then you'll get to pick the ones who make it worthwhile doing.

Saints have no competition, other than Reading apparently, for young talent right across the South & South West of England. No wonder they have such good talent to choose from.

Pompey's previous owners & managers (Redknapp) should hang their heads in shame that Saints have been allowed to build that dominance.
 
Great post Penton, but let's not underestimate the part luck plays in all this. Yes, as things stand they can't seem to go wrong down the road, but it's by no means a Gimme and it is by no means a permanent winning formula. Neither is it just about throwing money at the Academy. Lots and lots of the 'big boys' have had the next great thing, who have gone on to win the FA Youth Cup and play for their nation's under 18's never to be seen or heard of again. The introduction on foreign coaches en mass into this country has meant that they bring with them an in depth knowledge and unbreakable faith that they can acquire players from abroad, (even youths) with a good pedigree and proven track record for a fraction of the real cost of bringing a youngster through their academy only for them to be released in their late teens. People like Dario Gradi at Crewe must have been worth their weight in gold over the years, but it's very much the exception, rather than the rule. If that lot down the road were to hit a prolonged sticky patch, all the youngsters would be replaced in favour of tried and tested seasoned professionals to 'steady the ship'. Lastly of course, even when you play your youngsters, if it is in the bottom tier of the Football League, then they are not necessarily being well showcased as the step up to the Prem or Championship represents too much of a risk for any interested clubs, unless they can pick them up for a 'song'. I am sure the management team at Pompey are all wel aware of the potential they have at youth level, but they must consider that they are not yet ready for the rigours of League 2. Is it something we should try and build for the future? Hell yes, in spades, but a long term vision is needed for this to bear fruit (and a bit of luck)!
 
awesome article Penton and it deserved front page! at present 2nd top article on news now for pompey and has had a real impact with their fans looking and commenting and getting some twitter attention too!
 
Thank you again Rug and all for bothering. It made it to number one on newsnow!! Genuinely thrilled. Thank you all again...
 
quick comment, as i have to head back to my folks shortly for my other part-time job but to put things in context here...

its been ANOTHER decent month statistics wise for VP, and ALOT more are getting involved again but that article had SUCH an impact Penton you would not believe!

hits wise (not the main thing to base performance on mind) but that article led to a 3 times increase on the hits yesterday and the main area a 50% increase on the page impressions made.

thanks to those that got involved, but thanks to Penton for putting this forward!

i really do hope others put forward their thought, either in the forum (and i can post front page) or direct to me via an article suggestion.
 
Can't quite believe it! Over 3000 hits! It didn't get much response but it made people read.
 
Probably a number of Scummers looked at it too. I didn't say read it - that just wouldn't have happened.
 
Think they were looking for pictures, but we did have any lol...

Anyway, in light of Scum having not one, not two but three players called up for England duty recently thought it was a good place to revive this one and use this thread as one to give them some more credit.

Yep, they have spent money (we cannot deny this, nor can they - but in many ways some would argue that is 'relative' to being in the premier league, which as long as you can sustain this and the income is half decent you will be ok) but they continue to use their own, with Lallana one of those and WOW did he looked awesome on the Match of the Day highlights I saw this morning.

Pains me to give too much credit to them but those that laughed at them for daring to say they could make the champions league wont be laughing as hard now will they!

They will have a wobble, how they react to that will be interesting but a top 10 finish will be the minimum they get I reckon, at this stage below the top 8 would be disappointing for many a Scummer but I would not be surprised at all to see them qualify for Europe you know...
 
gotta agree that they are on a roll but every dog has it's day ... as I'm sure every scummer would agree.

As for their Youth policy .. there's no doubt we have to stand back and admire but don't be too quick to dismiss what Pompey did too and if we had not been financially strangled we could still be in the premiership fielding Begovic, Ward, Wilson, Ritchie and maybe even Wallace and Pack too ,,, We were no Saints .. but our youth policy DID produce .. and I'm sure it will again
 
I thought Ritchie wasnt good enough for the premier league :14:

I would very much like to think that if still as the top flight level we would be using our own...
 
Whoops slipped up there didn't I :2: .. but I still maintain that he isn't good enough for the prem.. I made that comment in Feb 2010 and over three years later I am still to be proved wrong ... :5:

Although things would have been different given different circumstances but sadly :6: :6: :6: :6: :6:

Thing is (and at the danger of sounding like Rug .. which is never a nice thing :17: ) .. we ready do need to get our Youth system right now .. . but developing them is one thing .. blooding them is another debate altogether .. but I am softening :69: