Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM | Page 172 | Vital Football

Race Issues/Riots/Protests/BLM

seanie ward said:
the last labour gov bankrupt the country, and they like to splash ,the cash, the amount of money floating through all the councils, benefits, dole money is enormous, and will never be enough for those who wont work
this goes back 40 years, when parents stopped working and then passed it on to their siblings, according to the latest figures, there are well over a million vacancies and 10 million, who are available according to gov figures from last week , a lot of ducking and diving there.
its not like back in the day, when you walked miles looking for work, in power stations, and swallowed loads of absestos, and told, it was pure dust etc. ,the gall of these strikers, dont give a toss about patients dying,, they didnt moan ,when they got the covid payments ,where in most countries,you would get nothing, then you have the greedy bankers, low base rate, encouraging, estate agents to hike house prices, never heard of , hence , thousands of people buying property they cant afford, leaving us with a banking crisis, started in sleepy joes country, seanie
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Sorry Seanie, you look at debt left by the Tory Gov prior to Lab taking over, and then what they left - Labour are more fiscally responsible - unless my brain has failed tonight.

Have you fallen for the standard joke that is the No 11 note 'there's no money left'?

From memory when a Gov changes hands, this has been a joke since the 60's but David Laws was it, politicised it and made it public in a total convention break because he was a wetwipe above his station who couldn't do the job.

And we are back to benefits...0.2 fraud from normal people, yet MP's expenses and Cameron claims thousands for gardening?

I won't even address the rest of the post, as I stopped reading, but that is a nostalgic biased batshit I haven't seen in a long time chap. Parents stopped working, that's why plenty do double jobs and get slammed on tax. Gov figures from last week show 10million people who won't work?

You were close on the million vacancies, but if I've seen the report you have that figure fell showing people are taking on jobs.

I can praise the rant, but that's it.
 
mike_field said:
Sorry Seanie, you look at debt left by the Tory Gov prior to Lab taking over, and then what they left - Labour are more fiscally responsible - unless my brain has failed tonight.

Have you fallen for the standard joke that is the No 11 note 'there's no money left'?

From memory when a Gov changes hands, this has been a joke since the 60's but David Laws was it, politicised it and made it public in a total convention break because he was a wetwipe above his station who couldn't do the job.

And we are back to benefits...0.2 fraud from normal people, yet MP's expenses and Cameron claims thousands for gardening?

I won't even address the rest of the post, as I stopped reading, but that is a nostalgic biased batshit I haven't seen in a long time chap. Parents stopped working, that's why plenty do double jobs and get slammed on tax. Gov figures from last week show 10million people who won't work?

You were close on the million vacancies, but if I've seen the report you have that figure fell showing people are taking on jobs.

I can praise the rant, but that's it.
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I "liked" seanies post because of the last paragraph re greedy bankers and estate agents, and he's right, they are playing a big part in hiking house prices, together with the BOE who kept rates artificially low thereby encouraging people to over borrow.
 
seanie ward said:
the last labour gov bankrupt the country, and they like to splash ,the cash, the amount of money floating through all the councils, benefits, dole money is enormous, and will never be enough for those who wont work
this goes back 40 years, when parents stopped working and then passed it on to their siblings, according to the latest figures, there are well over a million vacancies and 10 million, who are available according to gov figures from last week , a lot of ducking and diving there.
its not like back in the day, when you walked miles looking for work, in power stations, and swallowed loads of absestos, and told, it was pure dust etc. ,the gall of these strikers, dont give a toss about patients dying,, they didnt moan ,when they got the covid payments ,where in most countries,you would get nothing, then you have the greedy bankers, low base rate, encouraging, estate agents to hike house prices, never heard of , hence , thousands of people buying property they cant afford, leaving us with a banking crisis, started in sleepy joes country, seanie
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From the top:
- The global financial crash bankrupted this and every other country. Yes Labour's regulation on banks were too lax but the only complaint from the Tories at the time was that regulations were too *tight*!
- Only housing benefit goes through the council, the rest is handled by central govt via universal credit
- There's huge amounts of long-term illness directly and indirectly from COVID. Lots of women are kept out of returning to employment by the insane cost of childcare. Also people who are full-time carers who receive zero support
- Dole money is not enormous and has been slashed time and again over the last 13 years. They introduced the 2-child cap from which the only effect was to push a record number of children into poverty. Being impoverished is not a good place to start from if you want productive members of society.

The rest of what you've written is just "In my day nostalgia" which doesn't really stand up to examination.
Asbestos? Lots of people dying from asbestos is bad.
Doctors provide "life and limb" cover during strikes. A mate of mine was doing exactly that last night. Qualified paediatrician covering night shift in A&E for strikers.
Almost every other country gave COVID cover and many much more generous than us. It had to be done or the economy would have collapsed overnight and there would have been rioting and looting in the streets.
House prices are a function of the shortage of houses, nothing else. Supply and demand.
 
Platypus said:
This is untrue, and asylum applications are accepted at a roughly 85% rate or higher. You think we're seen as a soft touch compared to Germany or Denmark? The fact we take comparatively fewer refugees than most other places says that we're not viewed that way. It's usually a language or existing family or personal connection that decides where people run to.

From the government's own website:
"In 2021, there were around 9 asylum applications for every 10,000 people living in the UK. Across the EU27 there were 14 asylum applications for every 10,000 people. The UK was therefore below the average among EU countries for asylum applications per head of population, ranking 16th among EU27 countries plus the UK on this measure."

Nobody is suggesting letting people in "no questions asked". The problem is the Home Office is so broken that they're taking years to ask and confirm the answers to the questions, hence we've got a massive backlog, who we refuse to allow to work to pay for themselves and end up having to house at the taxpayers expense for way longer than we should have to.
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Dear Mr Platypus.

I was, of course, talking about the illegals who come across on boats and go to ground not the ones who make an application through the correct channels.

It's the illegal boat people 'we're' trying to stop..... or at least the fair majority of Brits are anyway.

The 'no questions asked' are again the illegal boat people I referred to earlier in my earlier post.

I do apologise if I didn't make myself clear. :tophat:
 
Pride of Lions said:
Dear Mr Platypus.

I was, of course, talking about the illegals who come across on boats and go to ground not the ones who make an application through the correct channels.

It's the illegal boat people 'we're' trying to stop..... or at least the fair majority of Brits are anyway.

The 'no questions asked' are again the illegal boat people I referred to earlier in my earlier post.

I do apologise if I didn't make myself clear. :tophat:
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What "correct" channels are there available unless you're coming from Ukraine?
 
The Tory bait and switch/ divide and conquer strategy is quite clear to be honest. Firstly block all correct channels, making every entry potentially illegal, spin the narrative that we're an island under invasion, stoke fears about being invaded, portray the opposition as weak on the matter and then try to win votes based on being tough on immigration.

I'm not a fan of unfettered immigration and have held concerns about the quality of people we have allowed in at times, but I think what the Tories are doing right now is as crude as it gets.

All of this is a consequence of failing to deal with the issue properly. I would say, do enough to ensure reasonable safe passage, deal with this at the border as best possible allowing in those who meet reasonable criteria and deporting those who don't. Therefore ensure there's enough resources to do this. For complex cases ensure there's enough lawyers to deal with this. The policy to date has been a farce and costs more than doing things sensibly.
 
Pride of Lions said:
Sorry, I'll have to pass on that one, I don't work for the Home Office.
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Yet you have a strong view one way but when asked about any detail, you suddenly say it's not your place? It's one or the other surely?

A: None. There are no safe routes - other than the Ukraine (and absolutely shit Afghanistan) scheme - acceptable to the Home Office.

By the way, arriving by boat isn't illegal it's classed as "irregular" and is legal as long as you present yourself to the authorities to make your claim. The reason they use "illegal" is because they know it sways public opinion. By saying the govt won't even look at claims of people who arrive irregularly, they are effectively closing the door to all asylum seekers not from Ukraine (and a tiny number from Afghanistan) and breaking the Refugee Convention, i.e. international law.
 
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/refugees-asylum-seekers-and-migrants/

The terms “migrant” and “refugee” are often used interchangeably but it is important to distinguish between them as there is a legal difference.

Refugees have special international legal protections as do Asylum Seekers whilst they wait for the Refugee status, Migrants do not. I see there is much confusion on the terms as many seem to use them interchangeably and attach the same legal protections to them.

Boat people, I have no definition for but I was checking the Gov page for stats. It appears there has been a sharp increase in a particular nationality that isn't from a state that is recognised as having serious risk of prosecution yet the increase in applications for refugee status from that country has.

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...actsheet-small-boat-crossings-since-july-2022

Smell much spin and pork pies in all of this. The debate has been deliberately misconstrued.

Personally if I lived on an island with my family and a boatload of men came along, I know what I would do.*

Edit: * my wife would be well advised to do the same should a boatload of eastern european women arrive.
 
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Platypus said:
From the top:
- The global financial crash bankrupted this and every other country. Yes Labour's regulation on banks were too lax but the only complaint from the Tories at the time was that regulations were too *tight*!
- Only housing benefit goes through the council, the rest is handled by central govt via universal credit
- There's huge amounts of long-term illness directly and indirectly from COVID. Lots of women are kept out of returning to employment by the insane cost of childcare. Also people who are full-time carers who receive zero support
- Dole money is not enormous and has been slashed time and again over the last 13 years. They introduced the 2-child cap from which the only effect was to push a record number of children into poverty. Being impoverished is not a good place to start from if you want productive members of society.

The rest of what you've written is just "In my day nostalgia" which doesn't really stand up to examinati
Asbestos? Lots of people dying from asbestos is bad.
Doctors provide "life and limb" cover during strikes. A mate of mine was doing exactly that last night. Qualified paediatrician covering night shift in A&E for strikers.
Almost every other country gave COVID cover and many much more generous than us. It had to be done or the economy would have collapsed overnight and there would have been rioting and looting in the streets.
House prices are a function of the shortage of houses, nothing else. Supply and demand.
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too many dodgers out there, like those that refused to work, after the covid, the hospitals are full to the brim, you cant get a doctor, for love or money, the doctors and nurses job is a vocation not a holiday and they know the pay at the start, how can they merit a 35% rise, dont they know the nhs is free to everyone, and
could never be funded properly because of the massive population,, but its still without doubt the best in the world, at the moment we are holding our own,, the yanks have f.....up, its fingers crossed time, seanie
 
Pride of Lions said:
I was, of course, talking about the illegals who come across on boats and go to ground not the ones who make an application through the correct channels.
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I will give you that distinction PoL (I'm nice like that lol), but and it's a big but.

No one is wound up here about anything other than the number of boats we capture, people taken in or saved from drowning - ALL of them do not go to ground. ALL of them then apply through the correct channels.

In which case, to use your own words, why are people upset when they are doing the absolutely correct thing when you ignore the Government and Farage ilk fallacy that they are 'illegals' because they categorically are not until the VERY point they avoid applying for asylum.

Then they become illegal immigrants, not a second before. But again, nobody is actually wound up about them are they, we are focused on people on boats, following the correct procedure.
 
JuanPabloAngel said:
I have corrected that for you.

No need to thank me. Really :tophat:
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I have no idea what this has to do with the thread as I just realised where I am, but this sounds like a Jeopardy question.

Where is £50 billion of NHS funding?

Ask Matt Hancock and his pub landlord, Michelle Mone and her husband and somebody who made fucking cat food (allegedly....sniggers).
 
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Unfortunately I believe the asylum process in the UK is being criminally abused simply because it is so poorly managed. To note I don't think Labour would do better.

For sure Refugees need shelter and a safe haven, Bogus Asylum Seekers don't. That determination needs to be made quickly and should be centralized at specialized reception centers where biometrics and personal stories can be taken. They can be staffed with all sorts of smart people to help with the decision making, even have an AI looking at all the personal data collected as there's got to be similarities in stories. Strict time limits must be imposed but there can be exceptional circumstances that may require further extensions. And once a claim is rejected that failed asylum seeker must be deported. They will have an appeals process available but only from outside the country. Should they return then they are committing a type of fraud and should be treated as a criminal.

The above is modeled on how the Swiss do it, 121 days is the total time for the accelerated process. The decision to allow the asylum seeker to start the refugee process is only 10-21 though. And there's an allowance for up to 1 year for "extended" reviews.

https://www.refugeecouncil.ch/topics/asylum-in-switzerland/the-asylum-procedure

Please note there is no mention of Migrants above as they are different. And the people smugglers who are packing boats with people who may or may not die in the crossing are criminals.
 
I dont usually comment on this thread because at 75 years of age and with no children or grand or great grand children I dont have any concerns about how the country may be impacted by immigration. I am a bit confused though because if there are no safe and legal routes into the UK how come in the year ended June 2022 NET migration into the UK was 504,000.
Out of that 504,000 only 138,000 were from Ukraine, Afghanistan and Hong Kong.
There was a large number of students coming here to study although I dont have the numbers. This increased following the end of the Covid restrictions.
The numbers do not include those arriving by other routes such as those crossing the channel in boats or in the back of lorries.
Many of those who left the UK during that year were from the EU.
The figures are from the ONS and there are other sources that can be looked at.
Now I am not very bright but I am sure there will be others on here who are and can explain to me why if there are no legal and safe routes how come the numbers are so high.
 
According to the Gov anyone who arrives in the UK without leave to is an illegal entrant and half a million people seemed to be able get leave to enter legally so it is possible.

For those who enter the country illegally they are committing a crime, Immigration Act 1971 says so. Though don't understand why 6m imprisonment is also listed as a penalty. I want them out of the country immediately.

a person is an illegal entrant (for removal purposes) simply if
he unlawfully enters or seeks to enter in breach of a deportation order or of
the immigration laws.
 
JuanPabloAngel said:
I have corrected that for you.

No need to thank me. Really :tophat:
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well make the most of it, while you can/ perhaps we can clone the 2 and a half million students, who wont work,into junior doctors,, having said that ,as i said before, its the carers, that keep the hospitals ticking over, they have the know how of life, most of the others, stand around waiting for something to happen, in times of hardship, whether its past or future,these 10 million need to be filtered out and put out to work, that would be, the best way, we might get some pride back then

seanie
 
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