Priti Patel

[SteveTreacle]

But in the case of the antisemitism row, not only do we not know who are the specific victims of purported bullying, but apart from an isolated case with Ken Livingstone we don't even know who the bullies are and what they said.

As you are giving your opinion of perceived similarities between the cases, are you admitting that you think Jezza and the Labour Party have been the victims of a witch hunt as well, then, Steve?

I didn't say there were similarities between the two cases. I was saying that, for me, the Patel issue has smacked of a witch-hunt all along and a lot of Corbyn fans have said the same about the case against him.

The two cases are very different. I have still not actually seen or heard what the specific allegations against Patel are, whether proven or not, beyond a generic claim of "bullying". I am also hugely suspicious of claims from civil servants as we have seen in recent years - especially over Brexit - that a lot of them a far from apolitical in their motivations. Corbyn has masqueraded over a culture of anti-semitism in the Labour Party as Labour leader, including a lack of any meaningful investigation of claims and a whitewash of a review into it by Chakrabati. I'm surprised there hasn't been more hindsight challenge and questioning of her review and - although, given her political leanings, it was hardly a surprising outcome - she should be made accountable for that as this could have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier.

 

[SteveTreacle]

Worth noting Steve that Sir Philip Rutham, who resigned as Home Office Permanent Secretary, is suing the governemnt for constructive dismissal. If that case is heard a whole lot more will out and Johnson's attempt to smother the story may unravel. Let's not forgert another case was bouight off with a £25K pay off before the case was heard. There are likely to be others.

I agree and will be interested to see the outcome, because, as I said elsewhere, I have not seen or heard what the actual allegations against her are. About the most specific thing I've heard is that Rutham complained about her swearing. If that's the best he's got, he may well come out of this looking pretty silly. We shall see.

 

[GillsBluenose]

I didn't say there were similarities between the two cases. I was saying that, for me, the Patel issue has smacked of a witch-hunt all along and a lot of Corbyn fans have said the same about the case against him.

The two cases are very different. I have still not actually seen or heard what the specific allegations against Patel are, whether proven or not, beyond a generic claim of "bullying". I am also hugely suspicious of claims from civil servants as we have seen in recent years - especially over Brexit - that a lot of them a far from apolitical in their motivations. Corbyn has masqueraded over a culture of anti-semitism in the Labour Party as Labour leader, including a lack of any meaningful investigation of claims and a whitewash of a review into it by Chakrabati. I'm surprised there hasn't been more hindsight challenge and questioning of her review and - although, given her political leanings, it was hardly a surprising outcome - she should be made accountable for that as this could have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier.

Your normal fair balanced view then. Thought so.

Whereas nobody has the right to challenge and question the report of the EHRC which is all Corbyn did, and then only partially. How do you know what they compiled was not a whitewash or that their adjudicators have any more integrity than Civil Service members?

 

[Gills 58]

I didn't say there were similarities between the two cases. I was saying that, for me, the Patel issue has smacked of a witch-hunt all along and a lot of Corbyn fans have said the same about the case against him.

The two cases are very different. I have still not actually seen or heard what the specific allegations against Patel are, whether proven or not, beyond a generic claim of "bullying". I am also hugely suspicious of claims from civil servants as we have seen in recent years - especially over Brexit - that a lot of them a far from apolitical in their motivations. Corbyn has masqueraded over a culture of anti-semitism in the Labour Party as Labour leader, including a lack of any meaningful investigation of claims and a whitewash of a review into it by Chakrabati. I'm surprised there hasn't been more hindsight challenge and questioning of her review and - although, given her political leanings, it was hardly a surprising outcome - she should be made accountable for that as this could have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier.

Your questioning of Labour's internal review is reasonable. Did come across as a whitewash. Eventually it all came out with the truly independent review.

We now have an independent review of Patel and people are rubbishing it as an "inside job". I repeat my concerns that there is a growing tendency to assume senior professionals (and judges) will fail to give honest reports and opinions. Frankly it is an insult to these people.

 

[GillsBluenose]

The two cases are very different. I have still not actually seen or heard what the specific allegations against Patel are, whether proven or not, beyond a generic claim of "bullying". I am also hugely suspicious of claims from civil servants as we have seen in recent years - especially over Brexit - that a lot of them a far from apolitical in their motivations. Corbyn has masqueraded over a culture of anti-semitism in the Labour Party as Labour leader

Yes, very different. So you want the allegations against Patel to be specific but in the case of Labour they are condemned just by the word "culture". See where you are coming from.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Your questioning of Labour's internal review is reasonable. Did come across as a whitewash. Eventually it all came out with the truly independent review.

We now have an independent review of Patel and people are rubbishing it as an "inside job". I repeat my concerns that there is a growing tendency to assume senior professionals (and judges) will fail to give honest reports and opinions. Frankly it is an insult to these people.

So are you agreeing that both reviews were independent? Only Steve is saying there are no similarities, even though both Patel and Corbyn have questioned the findings of each of the reports.

I also have a feeling that occasionally there have been senior professionals and judges that have gone to jail so there is no guarantee of their honesty, let alone impartiality. I would doubt that there are many that do not vote, for instance.

Perhaps we need judgements from people we can 100% trust, like Catholic priests maybe. Oh, hang on...

 

[The Roone]

I worked for the MOD for 23 years - anything to do with kit or equipment was decided upon by the Military. Sorry for your accident, but you have no evidence that the Civil Service played any part in it.

The report was sent to the MoD from I believe CinC Portland Royal Naval Base, from that point as you would know there are a number or civil servants whom it would have pass before any serving Naval officer would have got to see it.

All RN personnel at action stations have to wear the No8 fire resistant uniform(except aircrew), no serving officer or man would accept having to wear clothing that is not safe for the purpose it was issued for. Therefore I have believe it never got from the civil service to a serving Royal Naval officer.

 

[timnolongerinbrisban]

The report was sent to the MoD from I believe CinC Portland Royal Naval Base, from that point as you would know there are a number or civil servants whom it would have pass before any serving Naval officer would have got to see it.

All RN personnel at action stations have to wear the No8 fire resistant uniform(except aircrew), no serving officer or man would accept having to wear clothing that is not safe for the purpose it was issued for. Therefore I have believe it never got from the civil service to a serving Royal Naval officer.

OK - we won't agree so best to leave it there. I'm sorry to hear of your accident and hope you made a full recovery. Best wishes.