Predictable Tactics

[mikeosullivan]

I was thinking tonight, admittedly after a pub visit, about how predictable our play has been the past two months.

If I was an upcoming opposition manager, watching a couple of videos about us would tell me to:-

1. Play three in midfield as one will always be spare to break forward.

2.. No need for a really high press, as we will play a long ball out of defense virtually every time.

3. When that happens, just double team Hopper as we won't have anyone near him even if he wins the ball.

4. Or, if its a goal kick, just double team Poole and either get ready to take a throw in when it sails over his head, or pick up the loose ball when he heads it on.

5. Don't worry about overlapping wing backs as our right wing back can't cross, even if he shows willing and great effort by overlapping, and our left wing back is never given the ball by Diamond even if he does overlap.

6. Double team Diamond whenever he has the ball as he will then run into the second man and lose the ball. Do not let him be in a one-on-one situation though, especially when we very occasionally break out of defense through a quick long throw from Rushworth.

7. Throw ins are not a concern. In our own half they will be taken by the wide centre back and thrown up the line to Poole on the right or Hopper on the left. Just pick up the second ball. If the throw in is closer to the by line, it will be a long throw - but not particularly long. Just defend the nearest six yard box. If we do win a flick on, its no huge concern as the centre backs and right wing back who have come into the box for the throw in have absolutely no track record for scoring goals.

8. The same applies to corners. Even if the corner beats the man at the near post, which is not a given, unless Hopper gets a header in from inside the six yard box, nobody else is a threat - especially the centre backs and right back who have come up for the corner.

Have I missed anything?

It's sad that the first few months of the season I thought we showed promise tactically. Others on this forum thought otherwise (Clanford, Johnolbe, Chimp, Ruskington and more) much earlier that I did.

Maybe things will change on Saturday, and what I've said will be totally wrong. If not, I will have to go back to the pub.

 

[Reg Head]

I was thinking tonight, admittedly after a pub visit, about how predictable our play has been the past two months.

If I was an upcoming opposition manager, watching a couple of videos about us would tell me to:-

1. Play three in midfield as one will always be spare to break forward.

2.. No need for a really high press, as we will play a long ball out of defense virtually every time.

3. When that happens, just double team Hopper as we won't have anyone near him even if he wins the ball.

4. Or, if its a goal kick, just double team Poole and either get ready to take a throw in when it sails over his head, or pick up the loose ball when he heads it on.

5. Don't worry about overlapping wing backs as our right wing back can't cross, even if he shows willing and great effort by overlapping, and our left wing back is never given the ball by Diamond even if he does overlap.

6. Double team Diamond whenever he has the ball as he will then run into the second man and lose the ball. Do not let him be in a one-on-one situation though, especially when we very occasionally break out of defense through a quick long throw from Rushworth.

7. Throw ins are not a concern. In our own half they will be taken by the wide centre back and thrown up the line to Poole on the right or Hopper on the left. Just pick up the second ball. If the throw in is closer to the by line, it will be a long throw - but not particularly long. Just defend the nearest six yard box. If we do win a flick on, its no huge concern as the centre backs and right wing back who have come into the box for the throw in have absolutely no track record for scoring goals.

8. The same applies to corners. Even if the corner beats the man at the near post, which is not a given, unless Hopper gets a header in from inside the six yard box, nobody else is a threat - especially the centre backs and right back who have come up for the corner.

Have I missed anything?

It's sad that the first few months of the season I thought we showed promise tactically. Others on this forum thought otherwise (Clanford, Johnolbe, Chimp, Ruskington and more) much earlier that I did.

Maybe things will change on Saturday, and what I've said will be totally wrong. If not, I will have to go back to the pub.

It's the hope that kills us Mike !

 

[clanfordimp]

I agree with what you say there Mike.
Personally I am pleased we don't naff around at the back with the ball just now because it would be just suicide football for us and Kennedy knows it...that's why we've stopped doing it.


Having said, we have totally lost our identity as a team and at present I wouldn't have a clue of how we'll play on Saturday, i could take an educated guess how we'll set up but we are so inconsistent in our performances but are becoming more consistent at delivering a performance which was worse than the match before...so that has to be a worry.

At present the coach is not sure whether to stick or twist, he is caught in the headlights on full beam, his teams performances are declining and the team can't buy a win, so what does he do?

First of all I'm sure that he is desperate to get some new blood into the team, at least 2 or 3, even having Montsma available again would feel like a new signing but unfortunately he won't help to the specific areas where we need new players but I think Montsma will be back in the squad before the end of this month although I am in the camp where I don't think he could play in midfield but there again something has got to be done to bolster that area of the field but I hope its going to be new players.

It's going to be really interesting on how we approach Saturdays game. I personally don't think we have enough as an attacking force to trouble most teams in this league and although we have pulled some good performances out the bag I'm not sure we are even that team anymore. We just seem to be devoid of any attacking ability at all and we're not likely to become one with the likes of Hopper and Verman in the team. No disrespect to them but they are not league 1 standard players. Ive said this about Verman since we signed him and have said that Hopper is not the answer either.

I think all of us would take any sort of a win on Saturday. We need a confidence boosting win because we have forgotten what it feels like to win a game of football. A draw is just about acceptable but losing isn't an option because again that will destroy confidence and we will be looking over our shoulder with genuine concern.

I said only a few days ago that I thought that we just about had enough to stay in this league but having seen the performance on Tuesday night my confidence, never mind the teams ,is just shot at the minute.

I really do not know what to expect. Its not a win at all cost game on Saturday but if we did lose those games are coming and in the not too distant future.

We desperately have to change the dynamic of the team and we can only do that by getting some players in. Obviously even that guarantees you nothing but if we fail to bring players in then we may be in trouble and you can be sure I will be on Jez George and Kennedys case as much as anyone but hopefully the reinforcements will start to appear very soon because I'm sure everyone knows and can see that without that injection of new blood we could end up very poorly.

 

[mikeosullivan]

"I said only a few days ago that I thought that we just about had enough to stay in this league but having seen the performance on Tuesday night my confidence, never mind the teams ,is just shot at the minute. "

I have to say that is exactly how I feel at the moment too. Hopefully a decent and improved performance tomorrow will renew my early season optimism.

 

[clanfordimp]

"I said only a few days ago that I thought that we just about had enough to stay in this league but having seen the performance on Tuesday night my confidence, never mind the teams ,is just shot at the minute. "

I have to say that is exactly how I feel at the moment too. Hopefully a decent and improved performance tomorrow will renew my early season optimism.

Let's hope so mike.

 

[Rasenimp]

I agree with what you say there Mike.
Personally I am pleased we don't naff around at the back with the ball just now because it would be just suicide football for us and Kennedy knows it...that's why we've stopped doing it.

Just on this point - I actually think one of the best arguments for 3 at the back (particularly under Appleton) was that it gives you an extra man to play out of the high press. Especially against teams playing 2 strikers (which a few did when playing 3-5-2)? Now the main argument for it is we have better centre halves than midfielders, perhaps?

I think maybe it would be "suicide ball" to play out from the back all the time but it's not much better when we're having to play it long at the moment as we don't really have the players to compete and it's predictable. The odd long ball is great (think Mandroiu v Barnsley) but just giving the ball back to the opposition slightly further back constantly doesn't seem like a massive win either. Against some of the more direct teams, not trying to pass the ball just means constantly giving it back to the other team (Burton, Accrington), like a worse version of what they were doing.

 

[Red Wimp]

I always what the players think about playing certain tactics. Maybe they don’t care providing they get their pay cheque at the end of the week and they’re actually in the team, but generally speaking you would think it must be more enjoyable to play more ‘football’ . Some defenders maybe breathing a sigh of relief as there is less jeopardy for them to play it long and early, but midfielders must think they’re missing out and forwards no they have to fight for a long punt rather than a more measured approach. Some of them probably thinking this isn’t the game that was sold to me when we signed.

 

[clanfordimp]

Just on this point - I actually think one of the best arguments for 3 at the back (particularly under Appleton) was that it gives you an extra man to play out of the high press. Especially against teams playing 2 strikers (which a few did when playing 3-5-2)? Now the main argument for it is we have better centre halves than midfielders, perhaps?

I think maybe it would be "suicide ball" to play out from the back all the time but it's not much better when we're having to play it long at the moment as we don't really have the players to compete and it's predictable. The odd long ball is great (think Mandroiu v Barnsley) but just giving the ball back to the opposition slightly further back constantly doesn't seem like a massive win either. Against some of the more direct teams, not trying to pass the ball just means constantly giving it back to the other team (Burton, Accrington), like a worse version of what they were doing.

Yes I agree with what you are saying.
I'm just saying that can you imagine us getting the ball at the back and trying to play it through the thirds at the moment.

We're just havnt got the quality in midfield to do it and if we're losing possession just beyond our 18 yard box when trying to play out then teams are going to punish you.

You can virtually legislate you will concede one goal a game through any type of play but to be giving teams goals when you don't need to through trying to play out from the back in our slightly precarious position would be madness and Kennedy knows that that's why we have stopped it.

Agreed that banging the ball aimlessly up pitch is not the answer but arsing around at the back with it isn't either.

Kennedy has to play the percentage game with what we have at the minute. We have got some decent players who can play but I don't think he can play how he would want to because as we all know he doesn't have the personal in certain positions to do it.

Hopefully some additions to the squad will be added imminently which will allow us be able to do that.

 

[57harry]

I was thinking tonight, admittedly after a pub visit, about how predictable our play has been the past two months.

If I was an upcoming opposition manager, watching a couple of videos about us would tell me to:-

1. Play three in midfield as one will always be spare to break forward.

2.. No need for a really high press, as we will play a long ball out of defense virtually every time.

3. When that happens, just double team Hopper as we won't have anyone near him even if he wins the ball.

4. Or, if its a goal kick, just double team Poole and either get ready to take a throw in when it sails over his head, or pick up the loose ball when he heads it on.

5. Don't worry about overlapping wing backs as our right wing back can't cross, even if he shows willing and great effort by overlapping, and our left wing back is never given the ball by Diamond even if he does overlap.

6. Double team Diamond whenever he has the ball as he will then run into the second man and lose the ball. Do not let him be in a one-on-one situation though, especially when we very occasionally break out of defense through a quick long throw from Rushworth.

7. Throw ins are not a concern. In our own half they will be taken by the wide centre back and thrown up the line to Poole on the right or Hopper on the left. Just pick up the second ball. If the throw in is closer to the by line, it will be a long throw - but not particularly long. Just defend the nearest six yard box. If we do win a flick on, its no huge concern as the centre backs and right wing back who have come into the box for the throw in have absolutely no track record for scoring goals.

8. The same applies to corners. Even if the corner beats the man at the near post, which is not a given, unless Hopper gets a header in from inside the six yard box, nobody else is a threat - especially the centre backs and right back who have come up for the corner.

Have I missed anything?

It's sad that the first few months of the season I thought we showed promise tactically. Others on this forum thought otherwise (Clanford, Johnolbe, Chimp, Ruskington and more) much earlier that I did.

Maybe things will change on Saturday, and what I've said will be totally wrong. If not, I will have to go back to the pub.

A double Diamond works wonders so drink one today.

 

[Scotimp]

For what it is worth, I think MK is being extremely pragmatic, not predictable. I am not sure what anyone thinks he can do with the unbalanced/injury-prone squad he has been left with; to compound that, he has only had one transfer window, and most if not all of those signings would have been targeted by the club before MK arrived anyway. I think his tactics are dictated by the players he has been given, and are not an indication of how it will be once he has his own squad. Some people are startlingly unwilling to give him a chance, which I find curious.

 

[clanfordimp]

For what it is worth, I think MK is being extremely pragmatic, not predictable. I am not sure what anyone thinks he can do with the unbalanced/injury-prone squad he has been left with; to compound that, he has only had one transfer window, and most if not all of those signings would have been targeted by the club before MK arrived anyway. I think his tactics are dictated by the players he has been given, and are not an indication of how it will be once he has his own squad. Some people are startlingly unwilling to give him a chance, which I find curious.

My own personal concern hasn't been with Kennedy, he talks a great game but I am willing to see if he can deliver as well as he talks, which to be honest I have my doubts at the minute.

My concern has been the Director of Football. I mean, how many windows do you want when he has been involved in signing players and getting so many wrong especially the midfield. Yes there has been some decent signings but to sign the amount of cloned players we have in midfield is ridiculous. And we're paying for it now. The midfield is your engine room, the link between all your play and we are so poor in there it's not real. Somebody has to take responsibility for that and Jez George is the one common denominator in all that.

It should of been addresses correctly last summer and it wasn't and you didn't have to be a tactical genius to know that it would catch up with us eventually.

Young players with limited experience are great but have to be handled correctly.

We chucked 2 into our midfield and we are now bearing the fruit. They are not equipped physically or mentally for a 46 game season in League 1.

It's not their fault, it was just failure to prepare on behalf whoever was making the signings. How nobody couldn't see I don't know.

 

[ScottyimpinChessy]

My own personal concern hasn't been with Kennedy, he talks a great game but I am willing to see if he can deliver as well as he talks, which to be honest I have my doubts at the minute.

My concern has been the Director of Football. I mean, how many windows do you want when he has been involved in signing players and getting so many wrong especially the midfield. Yes there has been some decent signings but to sign the amount of cloned players we have in midfield is ridiculous. And we're paying for it now. The midfield is your engine room, the link between all your play and we are so poor in there it's not real. Somebody has to take responsibility for that and Jez George is the one common denominator in all that.

It should of been addresses correctly last summer and it wasn't and you didn't have to be a tactical genius to know that it would catch up with us eventually.

Young players with limited experience are great but have to be handled correctly.

We chucked 2 into our midfield and we are now bearing the fruit. They are not equipped physically or mentally for a 46 game season in League 1.

It's not their fault, it was just failure to prepare on behalf whoever was making the signings. How nobody couldn't see I don't know.

....and I wonder how much our vaunted DoF is costing us.....for what reward ? I'd love to undertake his annual.Performance Review.

 

[mikeosullivan]

For what it is worth, I think MK is being extremely pragmatic, not predictable. I am not sure what anyone thinks he can do with the unbalanced/injury-prone squad he has been left with; to compound that, he has only had one transfer window, and most if not all of those signings would have been targeted by the club before MK arrived anyway. I think his tactics are dictated by the players he has been given, and are not an indication of how it will be once he has his own squad. Some people are startlingly unwilling to give him a chance, which I find curious.

I certainly have always been prepared to give MK a chance, and still am. However I watch every game on iFollow sat on my couch - and don't have to brave the cold and incur the expense of attending games.

Those dedicated home fans, many of you on this forum, have had little entertainment or reason to cheer this season. And many must be losing a bit of patience.

Accepting MK can only work with the players he was given and accepting that the current style of play may be dictated by MK's assessment of the capability of those players, I have still been mightily disappointed this past month at how predictable our tactics have been.

It wouldn't be so bad if any of those tactics showed any sign of working - but we don't win long balls, we don't play forward passes from midfield, we don't have wing backs who can cross, we don't win the ball from corners or throw ins, and even on the rare occasions that we do, we don't have anybody that has a goal threat apart from Mondriou.

I just hope the fans see some sign of improvement (and entertainment) come February, otherwise the pressure will really be on. Especially with the Cowleys looking for employment. Highly unlikely they would come back, but they are revered in Lincoln by the majority - and that could put even more pressure on MK than he probably deserves.

 

[imp69]

We have had an unbalanced squad for almost the entire JG era. Almost all of his signings are no better now than when they arrived. I stand to be corrected but iam led to believe he also has an assistant on the pay roll. The money saved on his role and the failings in the transfer market could be put to better use for me. He has to be accountable for the state of the squad and how long this has been going on.

 

[Scotimp]

My own personal concern hasn't been with Kennedy, he talks a great game but I am willing to see if he can deliver as well as he talks, which to be honest I have my doubts at the minute.

My concern has been the Director of Football. I mean, how many windows do you want when he has been involved in signing players and getting so many wrong especially the midfield. Yes there has been some decent signings but to sign the amount of cloned players we have in midfield is ridiculous. And we're paying for it now. The midfield is your engine room, the link between all your play and we are so poor in there it's not real. Somebody has to take responsibility for that and Jez George is the one common denominator in all that.

It should of been addresses correctly last summer and it wasn't and you didn't have to be a tactical genius to know that it would catch up with us eventually.

Young players with limited experience are great but have to be handled correctly.

We chucked 2 into our midfield and we are now bearing the fruit. They are not equipped physically or mentally for a 46 game season in League 1.

It's not their fault, it was just failure to prepare on behalf whoever was making the signings. How nobody couldn't see I don't know.

So many players come on loan to EFL clubs from PL2 and immediately say how far removed U23 football is from the real world of 'men's football'. The players being shaken out of that PL2 system are generally ineffective in League One, so we will have to kiss a lot of frogs before a prince emerges.

 

[Scotimp]

Cheer up everyone, it could be a lot worse:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64269156

Like surviving a plane crash, only to see a crocodile swimming towards you.

 

[Ex-Ref]

I certainly have always been prepared to give MK a chance, and still am. However I watch every game on iFollow sat on my couch - and don't have to brave the cold and incur the expense of attending games.

Those dedicated home fans, many of you on this forum, have had little entertainment or reason to cheer this season. And many must be losing a bit of patience.

Accepting MK can only work with the players he was given and accepting that the current style of play may be dictated by MK's assessment of the capability of those players, I have still been mightily disappointed this past month at how predictable our tactics have been.

It wouldn't be so bad if any of those tactics showed any sign of working - but we don't win long balls, we don't play forward passes from midfield, we don't have wing backs who can cross, we don't win the ball from corners or throw ins, and even on the rare occasions that we do, we don't have anybody that has a goal threat apart from Mondriou.

I just hope the fans see some sign of improvement (and entertainment) come February, otherwise the pressure will really be on. Especially with the Cowleys looking for employment. Highly unlikely they would come back, but they are revered in Lincoln by the majority - and that could put even more pressure on MK than he probably deserves.

The Cowleys will be on big money for their contract terminations. If they get another job this pay-off might be affected. Their return would be an overnight sensation but that wouldn't guarantee anything. There also appears to be an increase in the conversation regarding MK. He lost me after Chippenham. I still want him to succeed but his reputation is in deficit at the moment. Wycombe, Bristol Rovers, Peterborough, Port Vale, Oxford, Fleetwood, Exeter and Shrewsbury on equal points. Similarly sized clubs but equal or above us. We've been in this league for a few years now but can't seem to better teams of our own size.

 

[JAYIMP]

The Cowleys will be on big money for their contract terminations. If they get another job this pay-off might be affected. Their return would be an overnight sensation but that wouldn't guarantee anything. There also appears to be an increase in the conversation regarding MK. He lost me after Chippenham. I still want him to succeed but his reputation is in deficit at the moment. Wycombe, Bristol Rovers, Peterborough, Port Vale, Oxford, Fleetwood, Exeter and Shrewsbury on equal points. Similarly sized clubs but equal or above us. We've been in this league for a few years now but can't seem to better teams of our own size.

I'm still a believer but with a little bit less optimism than couple of months ago.

He needs to work with a bang average and short on numbers squad. Worse than Appleton had last season. According to MK his influence on summer signings was limited. Hopefully this window he will be able to bring some players that he is after and hopefully they will make difference.

It's still early too. As it stands we are more or less where we expected to be with this team and I really like some things I've seen.
Despite our recent poor form being still unbeaten at home feels sweet. If we could start changing more of those home draws into wins we're absolutely fine. With few good new faces can't see why not.

Obviously there are also things that I'm concerned about, no doubt.
Also that Chippenham is still somehow pisses me off... :)
All in all though I feel like there is lot of fight in this team. Many games that MK managed to scrap something out of we would have lost last season. That might be the biggest positive.

 

[clanfordimp]

So many players come on loan to EFL clubs from PL2 and immediately say how far removed U23 football is from the real world of 'men's football'. The players being shaken out of that PL2 system are generally ineffective in League One, so we will have to kiss a lot of frogs before a prince emerges.

Absolutely. There is a world of difference between the tippy tippy world of Premier League 2 and the move into the real football world where your playing for a team where points, promotion, relegation and the staff and your team mates futures are at steak.

 

[Bazzzer]

Football was so much more enjoyable before fitness and tactics were invented.