Poch is Broken. | Vital Football

Poch is Broken.

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A little while ago I opined that the Premier league was fractured and had turned into a series of games of Attack v Defence, more and more you see teams in the middle and lower end of the table spend 95% of a game with 10 or even 11 men behind the ball and the top 6 sides throwing everything but the kitchen sink at them to try and break them down.

I cannot recall such negative tactics being the new norm since the inception of the Premier league, but as this defence v attack bandwagon continues to roll the ultimate victim is what fans pay for, entertainment.

As we saw last night it's not always possible for the attacking footballing passing side to crack open a packed defence, sometimes the defence just gets lucky or the ref is blindsided to an obvious decision, or not brave enough to give it.

Last night we saw a bit of everything.

To Poch's credit he didn't whine on about how poor the ref's decision making was and the two penalty shouts; the one for Harry which I thought was nailed on, which could have been a catalyst for a different result, even a different game - or at least what was left of it.

So kudos to Poch he doesn't whine about refs and I like that, alot.

West Ham were defensively negatively magnificent, they did the best impression of anti-football and had the defence of the Great Wall of China.

They went back to celebrate in their pie mash shops doing the knees up Mother Brown whilst blowing bubbles from their collective backsides secure in the knowledge that they have played their Cup Final and not lost.

Yesterday in the forum, I argued for once again a plan 'c' - we do have a plan 'b' and that's hoiking the ball long and diagonally to either Llorente and or Kane, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, there are times when what looks like three at the back is just two and five in the middle, last night was one of them.

The plan 'c' has to do with attackers that can attack at pace, that pushes defences onto their heels and gets them to commit to tackles in uncomfortable places; our play is based on dynamic non-stop movement that is supposed to 'distress' the opposition. The problem with this philosophy is that there is not a coach in the Premier League that has not figured it out and all that now want to play boring, negative anti-football have drilled their teams in the art of frustration against us. How or why their fans pay to watch this mind numbing horror and mockery of the game is beyond my understanding.

The combination of Dier and So-so-Sissoko was clearly picked to counter what we had seen Carrol do against West Brom a couple of days ago - I have no issue with that; but Moyes being the old wise head he is, countered by leaving the fragile beanpole on the bench - and that's where I do have an issue with Poch and his timidity last night.

Poch screwed up, his game management was poor, once he knew Carrol was out of the front line, we knew how they intended to play and thats is exactly what they did.

In my view he then waited far too long and only reacted when we had gone behind to an incredible shot and goal that firstly had me blaming Lloris for not getting to it, then watching it again and realising that it was one of those rare 1:100 shots that were unstoppable from a player that has not shown he can hit a ball like that in all the time he has been with the Spam. That's life.

But given our dominance, given our pressure why oh why didn't Poch change it around before then? I get slow patient build up intended to try and draw out the opposition, I get relying on clockwise movement in front of the oppositions goal with only the occasional overlap - but when it doesn't work - change it!

He should have had the strength of belief to make the changes at half-time, there was no margin in waiting any longer, their stall was set-out and they would have found it impossible to change the way they were playing and the way they were set-up.

Poch saw everything we saw and at half-time should have changed it up and hauled the ineffective combo of Dier and So-So off. Of course, he'd run the risk of them countering with Carrol - but that was an acceptable risk given our complete and utter dominance against a team that had not shown the slightest inclination to play anything other than 'block that ball'.

Poch claims he likes to be Brave and is not afraid (read that Book), but what I saw last night was a timid broken thought process and weak management based on what I can only surmise was the fear of being caught out by a team who had done exactly that to us not so long ago.

If we are to recover and get back into the top 4 he is going to have to start taking risks again, the sort that were getting us some magnificent results against teams like these.

Credit where credit is due, Poch has guided us through a tricky period and a difficult Xmas fixture list exceptionally well, but last night he gets a C minus from me for no other reason he forgot our motto; To Dare is to Do and sometimes that means doing just that.

West Ham's 'motto' is laughingly 'The Academy of Football' - if some of the great players that have played for them saw them now, they'd turn in their graves - their current motto really is nothing more than 'we park the bus and play anti-football'.

Of course, I'm not bitter.

p.s. Poch - find your bravery again or this season will be an entirely wasted one.


The curse strikes again, Poch was nominated yesterday for Manager of the Month - that explains it.

Read more: http://www.spurs.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=7524033#ixzz53JrtZSJn
 
The autopsy.


<br><br><a href ="http://www.vitalfootball.co.uk/router.asp?7524033">Click here to read the article</a><br><br>
 
If you watched the match the night before we played,, le arse v chelski, then you would have seen what a truly entertaining football match can be like.... both etams going for it, minimal bakward sideways thinking to be seen....I am jealous.
 
This thread belongs in the match one to counter all the doomsayers who think it's the end of the world and venting off illogical accusations to rid their anger.

I thought about the MF because I was puzzled. We know Dembele is suffering , Wanyama not fully fit and Winks possibly preserved for Wimledon or just out of favour. I can understand Dier because that's where he wants to play and can drop back if we lose a CB. So the Sissoko pick was down perhaps to dodgy fitness of the other 2 options. Why he stayed on so long is another matter although he did save our arses on the break one on one as the lone defender which has been conveniently overlooked by his detractors.

Poch has lost nothing.

The attack v defence thing is an issue not gone un-noticed with one suggestion being a play off place for relegation for the least scoring teams. So 2 go down and potentially the two most boring other teams fighting for survival. It's just an idea but the thinking I can see.
 
Nick Real Deal - 5/1/2018 19:31

This thread belongs in the match one to counter all the doomsayers who think it's the end of the world and venting off illogical accusations to rid their anger.

I thought about the MF because I was puzzled. We know Dembele is suffering , Wanyama not fully fit and Winks possibly preserved for Wimledon or just out of favour. I can understand Dier because that's where he wants to play and can drop back if we lose a CB. So the Sissoko pick was down perhaps to dodgy fitness of the other 2 options. Why he stayed on so long is another matter although he did save our arses on the break one on one as the lone defender which has been conveniently overlooked by his detractors.

Poch has lost nothing.

The attack v defence thing is an issue not gone un-noticed with one suggestion being a play off place for relegation for the least scoring teams. So 2 go down and potentially the two most boring other teams fighting for survival. It's just an idea but the thinking I can see.

'he did save our arses on the break one on one as the lone defender which has been conveniently overlooked by his detractors'........HAS IT, has it really or is it that it is only you that picks out a single positive and ignores 20 negatives.....

I saw that clearance, and? he was there and that's what you do, isn't it.... I cant remember you praising whoever when they passed from A to B.... cos that's what they do...isn't it?

Without a doubt POch did not react to how the game was going (before they scored) and only once they had scored....and not for the first time

Perhaps you have shares in Sissjoko....I don't know, but I do know that soon you will be praising him for having his shirt on the right way round....

Not sure why you feel you need to be his protector, why cant someone have a different view to you?....

You seem the kind of guy that when it has been raining for say 23 hours 59 mins and someone says it hasn't stopped raining for 24 hours ....you feel the need to say well actually for a one minute period it did......

Let people have their opinions without worrying.....you are welcome to yours, I and others may not agree.......that's life Nick.
 
This is flatly an issue of humility, and I'm a bit distressed that Poch appears to be lacking it.

I would've expected a front line of Arnautovic-Carroll-Ayew. SO I expect Poch likely did as well.

This suggestion that Sissoko was in for his defense of Carroll only flies if we don't have Victor available. Which we did. Was he fit to start? Is Sissoko known for his brilliant defense of dangerous Prem Strikers? I've not ever seen any evidence of such.

Once the starting lineup was announced, Poch had an hour to rethink what he had planned. At the least he should've altered the shape.

After the first 30min, it was clear he'd erred in his choices, and should've taken off Sissoko for Lamela. And then, if we weren't up by a couple at the half, he shoulda taken Davies or Aurier off at the half, put on Victor, and pushed Dier up into attack.

He just watched Swans utterly capitulate like I've never seen, and then late sub-on some threats and make it squeegy at the end. Why would anyone think Spam might try the same thing? And having NOT gotten the goal pad to make it comfy against Swans, when faced with a similar disgusting display by Spam, making early changes to avoid a similar fate is just plain logical.

Poch was frozen for 74min.

It seemed that only the wonder strike by Obiang shook him into consciousness.

I don't think he's "broken", I think he is at a major crossroads in his coaching career, where he has to separate himself from his natural footballing tendencies as a Center Half. If he can do that, he'll be a legend. If he remains "stuck" and unable to evolve, well we'll be pulling our hair out after matches like these on a regular basis.

Let's hope.

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This is a forum. If every opinion went unchallenged it would be a bit fluffy.

I saw no or almost no miss controls yesterday by Sissoko and yet according to some he can't control the ball. He has nothing to offer and does nothing to help the team.

He shouldn't have played in theory but I have tried to suggest why he did .
 
Nick Real Deal - 5/1/2018 21:13

This is a forum. If every opinion went unchallenged it would be a bit fluffy.

I saw no or almost no miss controls yesterday by Sissoko and yet according to some he can't control the ball. He has nothing to offer and does nothing to help the team.

He shouldn't have played in theory but I have tried to suggest why he did .

Well......well done for trying to suggest why he did, and perhaps your theory is right. My problem with the guy is that he simply isnt good enough for us, which of course is not his fault, my and most (I guess) frustration with the guy isn't so much with him, its with Poch for actually picking him.....I think I have said before if he picked me I would be their with my boots in the blink of an eye.....then people like me would be dissing me.....when really it would be the fault of Poch for picking me....
 
I have repeatedly said he ain't a first team starter....unless we are in the situation where all other options are not fit or suitable for the role.

So why was he picked ? Wanyama is building fitness, Dembele is semi crocked and Winks who knows.

Davies couldn't find a cross, Aurier not much better, Dier very quiet, Kane, Son , Alli and Eriksen all squandered, Lloris got beat from 30 plus yards, but let's slate Sissoko....he is the reason we couldn't score.
 
After the match point out all the players that weren't great, and then say it ain't the sh|tty player's fault because the rest were tosh.

Except maybe the sh|tty player's presence on the pitch (because anyone can plainly see his style is a million miles away from fitting into this team) stymies the intention, and blunts the effectiveness of others around him. Could be that ya know. Could be the rest were dragged down by his slow processing, could be they were a bit pissed at the image of him late in closing Obiang. Slow, late, indecisive, negative, unaware, wasteful...

I'm aware of his strengths, and for a moment in 2016 he showed he might be a decent footballer, in the right context. Spurs for him just isn't it. It's all just too fast for his head.

If you don't think a single player can make a total difference in a football match, well then...

This reminds me of Andros Townsend.

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It's pretty easy to understand why we struggle to break teams down when the bus is parked. We play at a snails pace. We don't have any players that can go past a player and create real chances.

Poch is tactically been found out this season and he has done jack to change that. We have looked like and AVB team for most of the season and that is not a good sign.

 
Nick Real Deal - 5/1/2018 23:27

I have repeatedly said he ain't a first team starter....unless we are in the situation where all other options are not fit or suitable for the role.

So why was he picked ? Wanyama is building fitness, Dembele is semi crocked and Winks who knows.

Davies couldn't find a cross, Aurier not much better, Dier very quiet, Kane, Son , Alli and Eriksen all squandered, Lloris got beat from 30 plus yards, but let's slate Sissoko....he is the reason we couldn't score.

Gotta say Nick you are right about sissjoko, I saw him run onto the pitch and he looked as good as anyone...... sadly his problems start when the whistle goes!

Look, it isn't a question whether others make a mistake, play well, play sh1te etc.... it's a question about sissjoko not being good enough, when the others you mention either are, will be, we think they will be etc etc

I think you will find every player gets slated at some point, even Harry...... But we all know Harry will come good again, all your points about sissjoko are either saying he did one or two positive things... that doesn't make him good enough to play for us. I 100% guarantee that if I played even 30 mins for Spurs I would do one or two positive things, but that doesn't make me good enough to be a Spurs player.

I really am beginning to think that you are related to sisjoko given your obsession in finding anything no matter how trivial to defend him
 
For me Poch is the right manager but wrong time in his career,it’s too early as he is still learning his craft. Too many brain fart moments and on the hole his substitutions are poor, either too late or ineffective. A good manager will see when either he has got it wrong or something needs changing then do it. I’ve seen Jose and saf make changes after 20 minutes and change tactics because they got it wrong.
In fairness to him he is Levy and Lewis’s dream, doesn’t make a noise about not signing expensive players or that stopping him from competing, gives the homegrown boys a chance so they have exposure before we sell them on for a profit (I’m not talking about Kane) whilst in return is allowed to not win anything with over the last couple of seasons the best starting 11 most on here have seen without his position being threatened.
We will never attract a world class manager because we don’t pay world class wages or transfer fees so Poch fits us like a glove and won’t be going anywhere, even if he left who would we seriously get who fits Levy and Lewis’s mound better?
Personally I think we’ve got problems inside the club, last year we were a band of brothers, this year Delli and Dyers bromance is non excistant, no silly handshakes after goals, no mass celebrations after goals, sometimes hardly even a celebration. Walker leaving, Rose doing his best to be sold all might be trivial on there own but en mass paint a bigger picture for me.
Then there is sisoko. For me pound for pound the worse player I have seen in a Spurs shirt. The most un Spurs signing (last minute and expensive) we have made and how he gets anywhere near the side is puzzling. Next game count the amount of backward, sideways and mis placed passes to forward passes to feet or space. You can even add productive runs to that and even the most ardent sisoko fan will be shocked.
I genuinely hope Poch does something trophy wise because I genuinely like the bloke, he doesn’t make excuses but at the same time hasn’t got the mentality or arrogance needed to be a winner.I also can’t help thinking we will never do anything trophy wise as long as Levy and Lewis are there. The happiest people at the club are the shareholders and of course supporters who spill out the “remember the crap we were playing in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s 00’s etc...etc..but we also won the odd thing then with a much poorer team.
One more note befor I go....no width and no pace = no trophies. Poch, the scouts and the board can have that one for free but I’m charging for the next bit of advice
 
I am not a football expert (honest ) nor am I a professional football pundit.
I am though , thoroughly versed , in what is right and what is wrong in football. As I said in the post match thread , I have been Poch's biggest supporter given the injuries and loss in form /confidence he has had to contend with and the lack of investment in the past transfers Windows .
But ....... The tactics and lack of reaction (even after 5mins) of the shambolic game plan the Spammers put out leaves me dumbfounded.
Isn't it obvious that if a team are going to park the bus , then the longer you take to get the ball forward , then the longer they have to organise the back lines" . Aînt rocket science is it ?

Now , if you have players that are capable of playing against that style of play ,then all when and good.
If you have put out a side that are going to bore the opponents to death ,then you have problems that you have created for yourself
If the players that are capable of attacking at pace , drawing defenders out of place , going down the lines , playing quick one/twos, are all sat on the bench and not on the pitch then what is wrong in admitting after ten minutes that you got it wrong and make changes.
It was so bad in Wednesday's game that HK was playing so deep ,in order to get close to the ball , he was behind all those that are supposed to be the ones that set up his chances. He ended shooting from 30 yards out in frustration.
And to round it off, and I wasn't going to mention his name , 'kin Sissoko can't shoot, can't pass, can't run with the ball , can't break down attacks with any reliability , can't score , can't think on his feet , can't even take a ******* throw in. So why why why was he even thought of when the team sheet was put in . If he had a directive from Poch I would love to know what it was
 
O look ANOTHER dig at the domestic cups, dont worry mate - you wont win it even if you tried.
 
I hate chel**** and the goons with a passion but what a game.
Proper end to end stuff just what football used to be like before it became a game of chess.. hats off to em the ****s.
 
And to anyone who wants to unlighten me to the game as it is today don’t bother not interested.... won’t be reading any in depth tactical stuff etc etc etc bored with that **** I want a return to the beautiful game.
 
Chelsea Arsenal match was super exciting as a neutral. I wish more teams would actually try to play football against us - as Ex says - they're depriving the paying fans of both teams any real entertainment.
 
freundorfoe - 8/1/2018 18:03

Chelsea Arsenal match was super exciting as a neutral. I wish more teams would actually try to play football against us - as Ex says - they're depriving the paying fans of both teams any real entertainment.

The PL is so much money to these smaller clubs and we have seen that quite a few don't bounce back at all if they go down, its no wonder they come for a point against the big teams.




 
It seems to me that Poch is cracking under the pressure.

In each and every presser he is talking about Kane leaving, Kane staying, players wanting a move or some other topic related.

Really not sure what he is trying to achieve, but all he is doing is sending the wrong message to the players and other clubs.

It's time someone has a word with him and tell him not to be drawn into speculation, and that the he is really hurting the club with those potentially disastrous comments.