Pierre Hojbjerg - Player Thread

[Real Deal]

He has never been an out and out DM because of his weaknesses.

He is certainly at his best having more of a free roam position. His tackling stats don't surprise me. But we have to consider our final 3rd play is poor so we lose possession more than the better teams.

His lack of athleticism and mobility is an issue. It's a big reason teams cut through us so easily. It stops him being a top DM/CM.

I'm fine with him being a squad player. We won't get better for 15m.

But I feel Skippy is a better out and out DM who has a higher potential ceiling.

 

[Real Deal]

Sadly for us we may never know; both were long held targets of Poch; he wanted them to part of our pressing, anti-press game, when I suspect he presumed that Kane, Delli, and Son were at their best.

LoCo does drive me nuts, you watch his international games and you can see exactly why he's being lauded as one of Argentina's best midfielders for years - watch him for us and half the time he just looks too slow, and without the subtlety of touch I expect of him, he scored goals for fun in Spain, yet we can't get him to score one! So frustrating, he looked to have everything then simply refuses/can't show it for us.

Fitness issues aside Lo Celso struggles with the pace of the Premier league. Him being so left footed doesn't help.

I would sell him no problem. He just doesn't suit the Premiership.

 

[spurs1954]

Why aren’t we seeing the rather more dynamic PEH that plays for Denmark. He excels for them. Is it the system, the quality of the players around him, the position he is expected to play within the system, limited recovery time, something else or a mixture of all of this? I think he is only marginally above average and has limitations but why are we not being getting the best out of him which Denmark seems to manage? Maybe if we could crack that we would have a much more effective player within our team!

 

[Real Deal]

Why aren’t we seeing the rather more dynamic PEH that plays for Denmark. He excels for them. Is it the system, the quality of the players around him, the position he is expected to play within the system, limited recovery time, something else or a mixture of all of this? I think he is only marginally above average and has limitations but why are we not being getting the best out of him which Denmark seems to manage? Maybe if we could crack that we would have a much more effective player within our team!

International football is a lower calibre of football. But Denmark certainly play him in his best position.

 

[muttley]

I also think you have to look at the role of Ward-Prowse at Saints when he played with Pierre who was the captain.

What was JWP doing so much better than our guys?

The answer lies with his ability to retain possession when on the ball. That is why I wouldn't play Hojbjerg and Skipp together. Winks should be ahead of one of them as he is comfortable on the ball and can retain possession. If Conte inspires him we might even see most of his balls going forward. He might even start carrying the ball forward again.

 

[USAFSPURS]

Honestly...I think PEH is ok...not the best DM...not the worst either. My issue is pairing him with Skippy...it just is...meh...I would much rather pair Skipp with a more offensive minded central figure. (I do think Skipp is overall better at the DM role than PEH) And if we do this...PEH simply will have to be depth on the bench...

One thing is certain...PEH isn't our biggest problem...by a LONG ways. That is reserved for other players.

 

[Real Deal]

I also think you have to look at the role of Ward-Prowse at Saints when he played with Pierre who was the captain.

What was JWP doing so much better than our guys?

The answer lies with his ability to retain possession when on the ball. That is why I wouldn't play Hojbjerg and Skipp together. Winks should be ahead of one of them as he is comfortable on the ball and can retain possession. If Conte inspires him we might even see most of his balls going forward. He might even start carrying the ball forward again.

You know what I was thinking earlier Winks is probably Skipps best partner in the middle. Probably the best balance.

Whether we can get Winks back to any form whatsoever is another matter. He looks done to me.

 

[Departed]

he fact that we are discussing the best parnership and Hojberg and Winks are involved in the discussion is a clear indicator of how naffed we are in terms of quality in that area. Both are mid-table at best. If you want proof, just look at the table.

 

[muttley]

he fact that we are discussing the best parnership and Hojberg and Winks are involved in the discussion is a clear indicator of how naffed we are in terms of quality in that area. Both are mid-table at best. If you want proof, just look at the table.

I think Winks has more natural talent than both Hojbjerg and Skipp put together. As RD has said though, his confidence is shot from the way he's been treated. He's also never had the water carrier next to him allowing HIM to be the tempo setter. He has just ended up in crisis mode with the rest of the midfield since Dembele and Wanyama left.

Skipp is obviously getting the free pass at the moment, and also plays a very simple role in the side. I think he'll struggle at some point as there's not an abundance of natural talent at his feet. He has an old head on young shoulders and engages his brain well, which is how he's getting by.

 

[xvausch]

You know what I was thinking earlier Winks is probably Skipps best partner in the middle. Probably the best balance.

Whether we can get Winks back to any form whatsoever is another matter. He looks done to me.

Yeah, like when I said the exact same thing yesterday?

Winks has issues, that have been problematic, and he's lucky as fuk Conte came in, 'cause he's just about the only guy who'll not give a shit about things from before, and will play him if he's the best choice. Nuno staying, or a 'weaker' manager would've had no choice but to be rid of him.

But, again, I dont see Winks being the solution for Skipp's partner longer-term. We've got a line or two out on that, whether Jan or the summer, it's a spot that'll be addressed.

.

 

[meee93]

It will be interesting to see how Winks fairs under Conte. We know he can be a capable passer at keeping play moving but lacks in having enough quality attacking output that is required. Having 3 forwards and 2 wingers always ahead of our midfield 2 will certainly help to make it easier for them to get forward passes off. Under our 433 or defensive 4231, there was so few options for the midfield to pass to that we really needed a sublime playbacker with the qualities that the likes of NDombele possess in order to get any sort of creativity going. I'm hoping that by sheer numbers of players we are now getting forward the midfield issue will become more hidden.

 

[Real Deal]

he fact that we are discussing the best parnership and Hojberg and Winks are involved in the discussion is a clear indicator of how naffed we are in terms of quality in that area. Both are mid-table at best. If you want proof, just look at the table.

Totally agree but it's where we are.

Until we get better in we need to find our best combination.

Hojbjerg, Skippy is a very average combination.

Hojbjerg, Winks is even worse.

Hojbjerg, Ndombele just doesn't cover the ground needed. Poor fitness from Ndombele just makes it impossible to work.

Hojbjerg, Lo Celso, haven't seen much of the combination but same issue's will be there. Lo Celso struggles with the pace of the Premier league and is to left footed.

 

[Spursex]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ottenham-coach-who-brings-quality-to-the-club


Hojbjerg gets his sucking up in early:



"It is fantastic to be able to get a coach with this quality," Hojbjerg said. "It is fantastic that the coach wanted to help the team and fantastic that the club is putting the players in a good situation.


"He is well organised, intense, demanding, enjoyable, he has a view on how we can improve different areas. I think it's very interesting, I think it's very accurate, precise. There's a lot of good things to come as a player that is something motivating to be a part of."

 

[muttley]

Totally agree but it's where we are.

Until we get better in we need to find our best combination.

Hojbjerg, Skippy is a very average combination.

Hojbjerg, Winks is even worse.

Hojbjerg, Ndombele just doesn't cover the ground needed. Poor fitness from Ndombele just makes it impossible to work.

Hojbjerg, Lo Celso, haven't seen much of the combination but same issue's will be there. Lo Celso struggles with the pace of the Premier league and is to left footed.

I still don't think people realised just how good Eriksen and Dele were defensively, even though Sonny never was. With Kane being way more responsible in those days, we could carry Son as 1 in 10 outfield players. Even Sonny isn't bad at pressing high, just not the dropping in piece.

Now we talk about carrying 3 or 4 defensively including Kane. Moura constantly switches off and every full-back that plays behind him struggles, whilst Sonny hasn't got any better over the years. Tanguy doesn't take defending seriously enough and his set his stall out as an an attacking midfielder. Gio seems to use some smarts for Argentina, but doesn't seem to apply them to us. Dele is fine defensively, but is struggling offensively.

So Conte has some things to figure out. I think he has to start with Winks and one of Gio or Tanguy next week though with Skipp suspended.

 

[SmithAndJones]

We're not going to win anything this season, much depends on whether the primary objective for the balance of the season is to push hard for a possible fourth place, win a relatively inconsequential Cup competition, or use the rest of the season for Conte to determine both the best options available to us, and who should be moved out in the summer. In doing so if he uncovers a permutation that enables to achieve one of the former, that will be a bonus.
So far this season we've seen a lot of, or a fair bit of, Hojbjerg, Skipp, Dele and Ndombele. Skipp clearly has a future at Spurs, probably a future captain. Hojbjerg is, and will remain a valuable squad player, but shouldn't be an automatic starter every week. Ndombele and Dele for me both need a change of Club.
We've seen very little in recent times of Winks, Lo Celso and Bergwijn all of whom have been bit part players for sometime. Whilst none of them have done anything in recent times to enthuse about, maybe they haven't had sufficient opportunity. Maybe all three need to be given an extended run in PL starting line ups over the course of the next couple of months. That way, by the end of January Conte should know what the best options open to him for the run in are, and who should go and stay.

 

[pjones40]

I have said from day one he is not good enough. If he had a great passing range with great vision then he might be better but he doesn't. I think he is the main reason we play so slow. He has no drive and 90% of the time he just gets the ball and looks sideways or backwards. In a defensive way he is so easy to play against. Just run at him with pace and he is done. Kessie or Zakaria who are both in there final months of there contracts are both better options.

 

[RichmondSpur]

I still don't think people realised just how good Eriksen and Dele were defensively, even though Sonny never was. With Kane being way more responsible in those days, we could carry Son as 1 in 10 outfield players. Even Sonny isn't bad at pressing high, just not the dropping in piece.

Now we talk about carrying 3 or 4 defensively including Kane. Moura constantly switches off and every full-back that plays behind him struggles, whilst Sonny hasn't got any better over the years. Tanguy doesn't take defending seriously enough and his set his stall out as an an attacking midfielder. Gio seems to use some smarts for Argentina, but doesn't seem to apply them to us. Dele is fine defensively, but is struggling offensively.

So Conte has some things to figure out. I think he has to start with Winks and one of Gio or Tanguy next week though with Skipp suspended.

Kane, Son, Alli, Eriksen, Toby & Jan all had their lives made the easier working of the impregnable foundation provided by Dembele and Wanyama. They provided the base for the rest of the team to prosper.

Lo Celso, Alli (when he plays) and Ndombele, don't offer nearly enough offensively to compensate for the many things they aren't adept at in defensive areas. Until we get greater output from those perceived to be better footballers, PEH/Skipp should remain as constant names on the team sheet.

 

[muttley]

Kane, Son, Alli, Eriksen, Toby & Jan all had their lives made the easier working of the impregnable foundation provided by Dembele and Wanyama. They provided the base for the rest of the team to prosper.

Lo Celso, Alli (when he plays) and Ndombele, don't offer nearly enough offensively to compensate for the many things they aren't adept at in defensive areas. Until we get greater output from those perceived to be better footballers, PEH/Skipp should remain as constant names on the team sheet.

I just think Conte needs to have an individual plan for every player. If he can get a better defensive contribution out of Kane, Son, Ndombele etc then we won't depend on the Skipp/Hojbjerg pivot so much. Just like if he can get a tune out of Dele or Gio. I think we'll solve it first though in the transfer market by buying a DCM that is better than our existing 2.

Wanyama and Dembele were great at driving us forward. Skipp and Hojbjerg are terrible at it. What people didn't realise is how high Wanyama's heat map was on the pitch whilst giving that defensive stability. Him and Dembele knew that Eriksen or Dele would cover him in they hit the 18 yard box. That has stopped now with the current prima donnas.

 

[Spursex]

We have to get better; yes, he scored, but boy is he slow (I'm not sure that comes across on the TV) but it was infuriating how easily he is passed and how poor his positioning was in the first half v Leeds.

 

[muttley]

We have to get better; yes, he scored, but boy is he slow (I'm not sure that comes across on the TV) but it was infuriating how easily he is passed and how poor his positioning was in the first half v Leeds.

Yep, agree. I said this would happen. After project restart happened after lockdown, the guy has been flogged to death by club and country. He will be close to burnout in the second half of this season after getting to the semi's opf the Euros.

He's looking very lumbered when he's playing at the moment. We need to give him a refresh cycle and lower our dependency on him to be our box to box player.