Out of contract players

[gazlatic]

Don't understand people saying they don't care if Powell stays or goes. 7 goals and 7 assists is still miles more goal contributions than any other player this season, and he's missed half of it injured! Obviously he's probably not staying anyway but he's still by far our most valuable and effective attacking player

While certainly a good player he's far from irreplaceable, as shown by arguably two of our best performances this season with Evans in the more advanced midfield role - a position that I think far better suits him than alongside Morsy.

Looking at the stats beyond goals and assists his pass accuracy is the lowest of any of our midfielders who have completed 90 minutes, his chance creation stats are average (0.9 per game vs average of 0.96 but this is dragged down by Callum Connolly's woeful stats) and he has average conversion rate of his shots into goals. Nothing in his stats leaps out to say he's indespensible to the team.

Even just looking at goals and assists Massey has a better strike rate than Powell and his assist rate is only slightly better than Jacobs. There is every chance that had someone else played in Powell's role all season - e.g. Evans, they may actually have better stats.

Powell has not been the problem or the solution this season though. The problem throughout has been the strikers, we have consistently been the profligate attackers in the league. If we can get a finisher that will work in Cook's style then it would make a huge difference. It's just a shame they are normally so damned expensive! Garner, Grigg, Clarke and Vaughan all share blame with the defence for some of the poor results where we have been dominant but lost.

 

[ZAKKY]

[QUOTE="Mighty Bongsmon, Bearing in mind that Baines is out of contract in the summer & looks unlikely to be offered a new deal, Everton need back up in that position & may be [/QUOTE]


The word is Leighton Baines has been offered a one year deal at Everton

 

[C_Latic]

It’s not harsh at all. Lang wasted the entirety of last pre season sulking in the youth team after refusing to sign a new contract. Lang was dragged kicking and screaming into signing a new deal after the club threatened to have him rot in the youth team for the entire season until his contract ran out.

Thanks to his Oldham loan his stock is now the highest it’s been and possibly may even be. If we’re ever going to get a good fee for him it’s this summer, else he could go for free next year. So yes if he doesn’t impress in pre season, he will be sold.

As for stats, they mean largely jack. If they did mean everything then Leeds would have pumped us 10-0. Everyone who watches us knows how important Powell is. The one player who comes up with something out of nothing. It’s easy to be like Lee Evans who stat pads with sideways and backwards passing. Powell pass accuracy is low because he always attempts to play key through balls which create chances. Something Evans rarely does.

 

[Victor Moses ;)]

As for stats, they mean largely jack. If they did mean everything then Leeds would have pumped us 10-0. Everyone who watches us knows how important Powell is. The one player who comes up with something out of nothing. It’s easy to be like Lee Evans who stat pads with sideways and backwards passing. Powell pass accuracy is low because he always attempts to play key through balls which create chances. Something Evans rarely does.

You fail to mention we are better as a team with Evans playing attacking midfield then when we have Powell in that role.

Powell has many weaknesses, far more then Evans. Powell's a match winner, but also a match loser. He can single handedly do both when playing. When he's on he finds the final pass or scores a goal from one chance, but more often his passing goes to a player on the other team.

Then to factor in his lack of work ethic and movement off the ball, his positioning is terrible, he never gets between the lines to link the play. Never picks it up in those positions and drives the team forwards either. Doesn't press the back line, doesn't cover team mates and usually is one of the first players to give up. Mentally he's not right, moans and complains about team mates when often he's at fault, which is a big weakness of his.

Only position i'd like to see him stay here to play would be as a striker. He's clinical in the box, good in the air and his wasteful passing higher up the pitch wouldn't cause us as many problems.

Evans in that role has better positioning, closes the passing lanes, works harder which puts him in better positions for when we turn over the ball. Better at holding onto the ball, also better at getting us out by using his frame to get himself in front of defenders. His passing is more consistent and with more experience in that role he will perform better then we've seen so far.

Also Evans works back and covers his team mates, which adds some extra protection to defence but then has the energy to get himself forward to support the attack, we didn't put our best run of form together by accident with him in that role.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

I think Waltons stock will have dropped massively this season so i think last year he wouldn't be for sale at any price while Brighton could be tempted with a strong offer now. But the type of price to temp them would be more than he'd be worth to us or could afford. At this point it's difficult for anyone to know if Walton is a young lad who will grow out of his many flaws and turn into a much better keeper with time or if he is what he is and what he is now is the limit of where he will get. Due to the uncertainty and the fact Brighton will not get an offer big enough to make give up the potnetial for a cash in and they will see how he developes. I think he could very well be allowed out on loan again as David Button is a great back up keeper at Brighton - far to good to be warming the bench - he's miles better than Walton at the moment. So if Brighton keep Walton they will either have him or Button as 3rd choice rotting away - i think if we wanted Walton again we may get him on loan or if Brighton have plans to start using him as back up instead of Button I'd try to buy or loan him - i'd actually prefer that.

For Robinson - Everton they payed near 20m for Digne, so he wont be getting shifted as first choice left back for the time being and they have Baines and young Galloway as back up left back already so they are a bit left back heavy at the moment. If Baines renews his deal as is currently being rumoured there is zero chance of Robinson getting any game time and i am sure they will loan Robinson out again hopefuly to us. I'd put an offer in to buy also but i think Everton would more than likely want to hand on for now see how he did on loan again before deciding if he has the ability to step up to the Prem or not.

But for both players you know with certainty that they will be involved in their clubs first team preseason and the management will have a real good lookk at them in friendlies and such. So there is an outside chance that their preseason perofrmances compared to their established Premier League team mates wont be as hoped and their clubs may become open to offers. So you never know - it's a big preseason for both.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

For Powell he really does flatter to decieve most of the time. If you are being bluntly honest for his talent he doesn't actually play well that often when should be man of the match most games. Even in L1 he very rarely was and despite being fit nearly every game last season he wasn't even in most peoples top 3 for player of the season which for his telent seems near unthinkable at that level if he was performing to even half of his capacity.

There is no doubt of his ability on his day but his day hardly ever comes around between injury and form - how many times this season have we genuinely seen Nick in full flight? Maybe 5 games and most of them in the first 10. In those games he was a pure talisman worth his weight in gold - but he's had a lot more games where he's veered from annoymous to liability unfortunately. He absolutley has moments of magic in him that can change games even when he is playing badly but for those moments of magic he gives away posession so many times, or doesn't track a runner, wonders out of position etc and it can hurt the team overall. I always feel to Nick it's so easy that he always tries to be flash - to show boat by being casual to try the difficult when there is a better easier option on - when it comes off it's magic but most of the time it doesnt. Also he doesn't look like he can run full sprint like he used to these days which is understandable due to his injuries but it is a factor in diminishing his potential. We so often heard the Dack vs Powell comparrsison and i always thought it was cut and dry - for pure technical ability on their day you'd pick Powell, but for work rate, reliability and sheer grabbing the game by the scruff on the neck and trying to drag his team mates through Dack has his day so much more often and utlimately it's how often you can do it that determines how good you are.

I think you can make the argument for carrying Powell through the bad to get the good, but i think you can equally make the argument we can't afford to rely on a player who is unreliable. Powell has been an important player for us but also a under achiever in other ways - I think at times when he is on the pitch we have been over reliant on him and he isn't the type to carry a team every week like say Zog used to do in the Prem or even Reece James tries to do now - he's not got that level of responsibility in him - which for his talent you'd maybe expect more of. I think as already said by others when Evans has played the last few games in the Nick Powell role the team has functioned much better than it has in 90% of the games we played Powell there due to in part Evans basically doing a lot more both on and off the ball. He's played the Nick Powell killer pass for assists and got a goal but also he wasn't on the fringes of the game for the rest of the time he was involved in everything. That made a big difference.

I can't remember who said it to give them credit but in the transfer thread someone said about Marcus Maddison that he is a flair player who is great going forward but wont work and battle like you need and we can't really afford to have 10 working and one of him - a team like ours needs all 11 grafting, pressing and battling as a unit all the time. And i think while Powell is not anywhere near as lazy or lacking battle as Maddision you can make a simialr case for Powell as well - i think when you look at not just last 3 games without Powell but most of the good performances since the start of season run ended most of the good performances came without Powell and many of the poor performances had Powell playing - so while i'm not saying he is responsible for the bad performances alone at all - i'm just pointing out he isn't as important as we maybe once felt.

Of course you can never have enough good players and if Powell was willing to stay for reasonabe money you'd offer him those terms - But i wouldn't break the bank to keep him like i would do for Reece James if it was possible. We all know Nick is going he's played his part in the last 3 season and you thank him for that and move on - i'm not that gutted he is going like i am James. He is a very flawed genuis and the flaws sometimes dont make up for his genius, in fact i'd say maybe more often they don't than they do - i think that will cause him major problems wherever he goes and i fear his next move could be more like his time at Hull or Leicester than his time with us. I really wouldn't bank against seeing him back here down the line.

I don't want to come accross really down on Nick, but i I do think we afford him a lot more leeway than anyone else gets and I feel that due to those moments of magic he has largely escaped fair criticism a lot of the time. We all understand if he was genuinely achieving his potentially every single week he would be in the Prem and playing for England rather than with us, but i do feel that this idea does lend us to be grateful for whatever we get out of him even when he has fallen short and deserves scrutiny.

 

[loudmouthblue]

As for stats, they mean largely jack. If they did mean everything then Leeds would have pumped us 10-0. Everyone who watches us knows how important Powell is. The one player who comes up with something out of nothing. It’s easy to be like Lee Evans who stat pads with sideways and backwards passing. Powell pass accuracy is low because he always attempts to play key through balls which create chances. Something Evans rarely does.

You can add clogger sam to that statement as well, in a previous post someone blamed the defence and forwards for our predicament this season yet failed to lay any sort of blame to evans or morsey who are at best division one quality and our get out of jail card was only played when cook stumbled on using James in midfield.

 

[C_Latic]

You fail to mention we are better as a team with Evans playing attacking midfield then when we have Powell in that role.

Powell has many weaknesses, far more then Evans. Powell's a match winner, but also a match loser. He can single handedly do both when playing. When he's on he finds the final pass or scores a goal from one chance, but more often his passing goes to a player on the other team.

Then to factor in his lack of work ethic and movement off the ball, his positioning is terrible, he never gets between the lines to link the play. Never picks it up in those positions and drives the team forwards either. Doesn't press the back line, doesn't cover team mates and usually is one of the first players to give up. Mentally he's not right, moans and complains about team mates when often he's at fault, which is a big weakness of his.

Only position i'd like to see him stay here to play would be as a striker. He's clinical in the box, good in the air and his wasteful passing higher up the pitch wouldn't cause us as many problems.

Evans in that role has better positioning, closes the passing lanes, works harder which puts him in better positions for when we turn over the ball. Better at holding onto the ball, also better at getting us out by using his frame to get himself in front of defenders. His passing is more consistent and with more experience in that role he will perform better then we've seen so far.

Also Evans works back and covers his team mates, which adds some extra protection to defence but then has the energy to get himself forward to support the attack, we didn't put our best run of form together by accident with him in that role.

Our best run of form was in August/September when Nick Powell was scoring and assisting consistently to win us points off his own back and put us 3rd in the league. Then Ben Pearson put him out of action at Deepdale with a red card offence and the rest is history. Despite being out of action consistently, he’s still our top goal scorer and that’s without a single penalty.

Folk have very short memories. You’ll see next season if we’re struggling down the bottom unable to score goals. I’m not blinded by a freak (but brilliant) win against Leeds and stroll against a 10 man Preston team on the beach. That’s why Nick Powell is off to a bigger club and Lee Evans will be courting zero interest from any other team in the summer.

 

[Victor Moses ;)]

Where did he go after August 22nd after we beat stoke until March 9th? The squad as a whole started the season well, Powell scored 3 and assisted 3 in our first 4 games, he then created 2 goals in the following 18 appearances. Whilst spending the rest of the time injured.

His goals and assists have been in the same games, goal and assist against Bolton when we won 5-2. Goal and assist when we lost 3-2 against Reading. There's 10 of his 14 created goals this season. On the weekend his shot took a wicked deflection, wasn't going in other wise. 11 of the 14.

James Maddison in his first season in the championship created 22, Jack Grealish has only created 12 goals this season. But he's a far better player then Powell, he pulls players out of position and creates openings every single game.

We'll be better without him next season, the football will be better the results will be determined by the quality of the whole starting eleven and we'll miss Reece James more then any other player.

 

[Victor Moses ;)]

Our best run of form was in August/September when Nick Powell was scoring and assisting consistently to win us points off his own back and put us 3rd in the league. Then Ben Pearson put him out of action at Deepdale with a red card offence and the rest is history. Despite being out of action consistently, he’s still our top goal scorer and that’s without a single penalty.

Folk have very short memories. You’ll see next season if we’re struggling down the bottom unable to score goals. I’m not blinded by a freak (but brilliant) win against Leeds and stroll against a 10 man Preston team on the beach. That’s why Nick Powell is off to a bigger club and Lee Evans will be courting zero interest from any other team in the summer.

Forgot to mention do you think Mark Duffy will have any interest from any club this season? No chance, but would Sheffield be second without him not a chance. He's only created 12, but he adds more to his team then Powell does for us in midfield.

*Edit after looking back, our form against Leeds, Norwich and Preston was significantly better then August/September. We beat Sheffield wed current 9th, lost to Villa currently 5, beat stoke 16th and drew against Nottingham forest 10th.

Vs Almost beating Norwich, draw(Totally dominated us earlier in the season when Powell started). Beating Leeds with 10 and beating Preston. 1st, 3rd and 12th. Leeds and Norwich were in excellent form at the time.

 

[Kenny Morris]

our get out of jail card was only played when cook stumbled on using James in midfield.

Why can't you give some credit where it is due, Cook didn't stumble on using James in midfield, he tried something different. At first it didn't even look like it was a good thing until James grew into the role.

And to say that Morsy and Evans are" L1 standard at best" really is taking the "P".
Granted neither are top Championship players but they would hold their own in most sides in the league, and make up with attitude what they maybe lack in quality.
That's why they are with us and not a top team, but then again we couldn't afford the top teams midfield players, so we have what we have.

 

[hindleymonwafc]

You can add clogger sam to that statement as well, in a previous post someone blamed the defence and forwards for our predicament this season yet failed to lay any sort of blame to evans or morsey who are at best division one quality and our get out of jail card was only played when cook stumbled on using James in midfield.

Good grief man are you losing your marbles ?... I get you don't rate our captain but maybe you just cant see the woods for the trees.

 

[walgarthjohn]

A lot depends how much cash we have..... Can see us signing Clarke hope not but think we will offer him a deal ....... The Club said in jan that we had 2 bids over a mil for 2 players so maybee we might have a little cash to spend Realy need a center back next season thats for sure As fox is a good player but i think injury prone

 

[ManchesterLatic89]

As much as Powell has been a very good player, there are two reasons I am leaning towards moving him on

First is injuries, he barely ever completes 90 minutes in a game and is always going off injured. King de Zeeuw illustrated it perfectly by comparing Powell to Dack. In terms of natural ability Powell and Dack are about the same. However in terms of consistency and reliabilty Dack is streets ahead of him emphasized by this season and the fact he could set to be Rovers' POTS for a second straight year.

Second reason wages - I know when we signed Powell that we beat Wolves to his signature, so the likelyhood is his wages will around the 15 to 18k a week bracket. Thats a lot of wages to be paying for a talented yet frequently injured player. We could imo find someone on wages around 12k a week more reliable than Powell in terms of being injured less and whose impact is either slightly less or equal to Powells these last few years. Plus if the above happened we could use the 6k a week in wages to partially subsidize a Chelsea loanees wages, would we really say no to another loanee at a similar level to James? Plus Chelsea will likely have a talented 18 or 19 year old around who they would want to see given a year out on loan in the Championship.

I would offer Powell a new contract but i just get a feeling he will move on in the summer. Sheff Wed might be restriscted due to FFP this summer, but i can see Powell there. Bruce has always beenan admirer of Powell. Plus with Forestieri likely to leave Sheff Wed that is about 40k a week in wages freed up for them. So Powell on 20k a week would confortably fit into their wage structure and they would be able to outbid us. Not to mention likes of Leeds also. That is why i am leaning towards moving him on this summer.

 

[loudmouthblue]

So where do we get this player you want to replace Powell with and pay him 12k a week.

I have said it before but nobody listens it seems, Nick Powell is believed to be earning about 18k a week, if you purchase a player the transfer fee alone costs a club £6410 PER WEEK over a three year contract for every million you spend, would anyone have complained if we had paid 3 million for Powell and not paid him any wages, because that is what it amounts to.

To put in perspective windass is costing £16025 per week plus wages and very little chance of recouping any transfer money at the moment based on his performances, Lopez has been farmed out as he isn't up to scratch costing c. £6000 per week plus his wages.

 

[ManchesterLatic89]

Marcus Maddison is available from Peterborough on a free this summer. He would probably command wages around the 12k a week mark. A very realistic target for us.

Plus Powell isnt the only high earner out of contract who will likely be leaving. McDonald, Gibson, MacManaman are three others all on good money too (McDonald esp as we signed him when we still had parachute payments). Lots of wage room freed up there some of which could go towards a transfer fee or two for new signings. Not to mention Cole and Walker both likely to be transfer listed too.

To be honest, you can find good quality in the out of contract market this summer and going forward i think that is the best route for the club. Plenty of out of contract players at top 10 Championship clubs who could come in, improve the squad (Kieren Westwood, David Marshall, David McGoldrick etc) fit within our pay structure and wont cost a penny in transfer fees.

Admittedly, it went poorly for them this season, but over last 3 to 4 seasons Ipswich under McCarthy were competitive and even made the playoffs a few times by picking up good signings of out of contract players plus using the loan market well. Preston and Huddersfield also two other examples of clubs who showed at this level you dont always have to splash out considerable transfer fees all the time by picking up some good bosman frees and some low fee signings.

Those two clubs are a model for us to follow over next 3 or 4 seasons if we are to attempt to get back to the top flight against the odds.

 

[Victor Moses ;)]

Right now i'd like to see us get this group confirmed for next season and then add and strengthen from there.

Clarke
???-Evans-Massey
Morsy-????
Robinson-Fox-???-Byrne
???

Players out of contract this season(Haven't checked recently to see if they've renewed).

Adam Davies - Barnsley
Has very good agility. Haven't seen enough of him to know if he commands his box well. I don't take much notice of that whilst watching other teams. 26.

Marc Bola - Blackpool
Very attack minded left back, 21 year old.

Joe Mattock - Rotherham
Very experienced left back, has some similarities to fox, 28.

Patrick Bauer - Charlton
Very experienced at league 1 level, 26 year old. Haven't seen too much of him, but he's solid. 6 foot 3 and has a solid frame, also tidy with the ball.

Domitri Cavare - Barnsley
Right back, 24 year old, pace size and has to be around 14 stone, solid frame.

Chris Solly - Charlton
Experienced right back, don't need to say much about him as he's fairly known, 28.

Paul Coutts - Sheffield united
Used to be a quality midfielder, very combative. Broke his leg last season, hasn't been able to force his way back into Sheffield united's side since returning this season. 30, him and Morsy in midfield would be two competitive players.

Joe Aribo - Charlton
Mentioned Aribo couple years ago, creative defensive midfielder. 22 years old, tall and athletic. Drives with the ball, uses his frame very well with pressure on the ball. Most similar player within our budget to Reece James.

Jamie Patterson - Bristol city
27, versatile player. Puts a shift in, would add competition in several positions.

Josh Morris - Scunthorpe
Creative midfielder, had a bad injury this season. Has created 10 goals in 16 starts this season. Created 16 in 46 last season and the season before that he created 36 goals in 46 appearances. 27. Left footed, has the work rate to match his ability.

Armand Gnanduillet - Blackpool
6 foot 4, must be 14 stone+ built like a tank. If there was ever a player with the right frame to be a target man it would be him.
Gnanduillet on a free he'd be worth the punt. Cook already knows him from Chesterfield, created 13 goals in 34 starts this season. 27, would be a better option then trying Grigg, Vaughan and Garner in that role, being under 5 foot 10. Currently having his best season.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Forgot to mention do you think Mark Duffy will have any interest from any club this season? No chance, but would Sheffield be second without him not a chance. He's only created 12, but he adds more to his team then Powell does for us in midfield.

*Edit after looking back, our form against Leeds, Norwich and Preston was significantly better then August/September. We beat Sheffield wed current 9th, lost to Villa currently 5, beat stoke 16th and drew against Nottingham forest 10th.

Vs Almost beating Norwich, draw(Totally dominated us earlier in the season when Powell started). Beating Leeds with 10 and beating Preston. 1st, 3rd and 12th. Leeds and Norwich were in excellent form at the time.

I'd have taken Mark Duffy on a free from Burton when we we went up under Caldwell 3 years ago always been under rated. If he is pushed down the pecking order after new signings I'd be interested this summer.

 

[ZAKKY]

Right now i'd like to see us get this group confirmed for next season and then add and strengthen from there.

Clarke
???-Evans-Massey
Morsy-????
Robinson-Fox-???-Byrne
???

Players out of contract this season(Haven't checked recently to see if they've renewed).

Adam Davies
Has very good agility. Haven't seen enough of him to know if he commands his box well. I don't take much notice of that whilst watching other teams. 26.

Marc Bola
Very attack minded left back, 21 year old.

Joe Mattock
Very experienced left back, has some similarities to fox, 28.

Patrick Bauer
Very experienced at league 1 level, 26 year old. Haven't seen too much of him, but he's solid. 6 foot 3 and has a solid frame, also tidy with the ball.

Dominick Kavare
Right back, 24 year old, pace size and has to be around 14 stone, solid frame.

Chris Solly
Experienced right back, don't need to say much about him as he's fairly known, 28.

Paul Coutts
Used to be a quality midfielder, very combative. Broke his leg last season, hasn't been able to force his way back into Sheffield united's side since returning this season. 30, him and Morsy in midfield would be two competitive players.

Joe Aribo
Mentioned Aribo couple years ago, creative defensive midfielder. 22 years old, tall and athletic. Drives with the ball, uses his frame very well with pressure on the ball. Most similar player within our budget to Reece James.

Jamie Patterson
27, versatile player. Puts a shift in, would add competition in several positions.

Josh Morris
Creative midfielder, had a bad injury this season. Has created 10 goals in 16 starts this season. Created 16 in 46 last season and the season before that he created 36 goals in 46 appearances. 27. Left footed, has the work rate to match his ability.

Armand Gnanduillet
6 foot 4, must be 14 stone+ built like a tank. If there was ever a player with the right frame to be a target man it would be him.
Gnanduillet on a free he'd be worth the punt. Cook already knows him from Chesterfield, created 13 goals in 34 starts this season. 27, would be a better option then trying Grigg, Vaughan and Garner in that role, being under 5 foot 10. Currently having his best season.

Would be good if you could put the clubs to these player everyone not as clued up as you seem to be. thanks

 

[moonay]

Would be good if you could put the clubs to these player everyone not as clued up as you seem to be. thanks

I imagine Zakky that the club are well aware of
a) who they might want
b) who might be coming available
c) who might be "affordable" from categories a & b

Hopefully, (as I think others have suggested) they'll not only be looking in the English leagues, but also within Europe (assuming folk can can still move around easily ).

Personally, I rarely contribute to this type of thread, for two reasons. Firstly I have bugger all idea of players from other teams (especially leagues 1 & 2), but secondly, and more pertinently, I really don't see the point.

All it would seem to do is to heighten expectations of who we might go after, resulting in disillusion and disappointment when we don't get them (irrelevant of who we do actually end up with).

By all means, dip your bread lads, but lets not go all "droopy bottom lip" when we get someone in who isn't up to your expected standards.