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Think Prestons are a good side but never really replaced Hugill properly and now they've had a couple of bad results their confidence has gone and they are well and truly in a relegation scrap they should be too good for.

That is the thing that can so easily happen at this level and was the reason why i thought last night was must win. Imagine if we lost last night, that's 2 loses on the bounce, then we have play off contenders Bristol which will be tough, then go away to Norwich and all away games at this level are hard, then we've got Swansea one of the promotion favourites at home and in no time at all it can be 5 without a win or 5 losses in a row and the heads drop and you get that losing mentality. I think that is what has happened to Preston when you look at their results. They haven't won in 7 games and while they have had some tough fixtures they messed up their easier games too.

Then in our situation in the next block of games we'd have promotion tips West Brom, Boro and Leeds plus away games at Millwall and Sheff U who are both very good at home and a 6 pointer with Preston you could easily end up in a situation where you are looking at 11 games without a win as they are all so tough and the pressure piles up - absolutely vital that when the games you'd count as your bankers come around you take maximum points.
 
The knob end natives aren't happy.

Speaking to a couple on Monday they are bemoaning the inability of their chairman and chief exec to recruit any sort of striker of note. Apparently they also suffered injury to two of their better players in pre season and ill discipline has cost them with some ridiculous red cards to midfielders. My heart bleeds. Not.

Confidence is a funny thing. I think they won a lot of tight games 1-0 last year, yet bereft of confidence the fine margins aren't going their way. Apparently there are rumblings of wanting rid of Alex Neil, who I actually think is a decent manager and getting Grayson to return, despite most happy he left in the first place. I actually think ultimately they'll be fine, but not competing for play offs which I think expectations were after last season. The fans do have a chip on their shoulders and are aggrirved they are the only north west club of any note not to play in the premier league.

There's no doubt the Championship is a tough competitive league, as we've found to our cost in recent seasons it's difficult to get a sustained run going unless your a high end team. The reality is this season we're going to lose some games and be outclassed in the process. The key is putting those behind us, bouncing back, grinding out results and not getting in a rut. That will keep confidence high that we can win games and keep us in mid table, which for me will be a highly satisfactory season.
 
I can see Preston potentially ending up like we did under Rosler, we had a bad start and everyone thought we'd at least wake up enough to not get relegated but as the games ticked by the confidence dropped further the losing mentality became set in deeper are we spiralled rather than rallied. They need a win and some momentum soon, let's just hope they are still playing crap by the time we play them!
 
I called it quite early under Rosler, we looked destined for the drop long before he departed for various reasons. I recall saying so on here and the place went into meltdown as is the way. It took a while for the reality to dawn on most. I'm not quite sure knob end are in that place at present, though I do hope they end up in it. Taking 3 points off 'em in a few weeks would certainly be very welcome, though as C says if ever a team or player needs to end a barren sequence it usually happens against us.
 
Made in Wigan said:
I called it quite early under Rosler, we looked destined for the drop long before he departed for various reasons. I recall saying so on here and the place went into meltdown as is the way. It took a while for the reality to dawn on most. ......
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As the local phrase goes MiW .......... What dus t' want? ......... a big orange?

As many others countered, we may well have turned the corner under Rosler too. Admittedly, there apparently issues with certain players, but those players went on to take us down regardless. Maybe Rosler should have been backed, and we should have got rid of the players instead.

I seem to recollect you were just as pessimistic re GC in his first season ....... maybe the crystal ball was a little cloudy then. ;)

(Oh, and as for his second season, again who's to say what might have happened if he hadn't been relieved by "he who cannot be named"?).
 
That local saying is a new one on me! However if your offering...

The writing was on the wall as early as October that season. Given the recruitment no one believed it could happen, but all the tell tale signs were there. As you know I put a decent wager at decent odds it was that apparent for me. A pity as I thought he was a decent manager but he lost his way and self destructed through stubbornness. The meltdown on here was epic as you'll recall when I said we'd drop, take emotion out of it and it was obvious.

The real error was recruiting Mackay, as it was recruiting Joyce. Not sacking their predecessors. I was all for Caldwelks appointment, but his style of football was dull as it transpired. I wouldnt say my crystal ball was cloudy, just ignorant of the poor standard of football at league 1. His dismissal was the correct call by Sharpe, if that is to whom you're referring? Some of the other decisions that season were poor however, though at least he got that one correct.
 
A few contradictions there mate ............ both on the Rosler & Caldwell tenures ............... but never mind.

We're all aboard the Cookie-bus, bound for the promised land (wherever that might be).

:cheers:
 
Think it’s a bit different for PNE. They’ve had some really bad luck with injuries. Losing Maguire just before the start of the season will have been a killer and you’d imagine they will sort themselves out when he comes back as he scores goals at this level.
 
I remember that summer being uncomfortable with the club giving Rosler so much to spend as i thought the signs were there towards the end of the previous year and preseason that he wasnt going to be the right man for us. It was good the club was willing to spend so big but i had nagging doubts about him and would've prefered to have given him half of it and saved the other half as i feared we'd need to replace him and wanted the next boss to have funds. But i never thought every player he signed would turn out so terrible and he'd create such a mess to set us up for relegation! I thought he'd have us towards the top of the bottom half and that would've been well below expectations. It felt like we sleep walked into a crisis and the 2 subsequent appointments weren't the right one and able to turn it around.

Preston could and should be able to turn this aroud but they need a kick start soon or they could easily end up losing their self belief as they drift furthet and once that losing mentality sinks it - it can be hard the shake off.
 
KDZ:
So, though Rosler took us up to the play offs, you thought "the signs were there towards the end of the previous year"? How does that work then ?

MiW:
OK, "a few" exaggerated ................. should have said "a couple of".

- You say the writing was on the wall long before it happened (which was fairly early in the season), but then express surprise, given the recruitment
- Re GC, you say you were all for his appointment, but I'm sure you (with Notts) were one of his biggest critics in those early months.

Sorry chaps, I don't mean to be overly-pernickety, its just that such glorious hindsight made up as "I always knew" never sits well with me.
 
Re Caldwell I said at the time I was happy with his appointment as I felt having someone with a connection to the club was exactly what we needed given the debacle of that season and the damage that had been caused to our reputation. My dissatisfaction arrived the following season following being bored senseless by that needless passing across the back.

Re Rosler, perhaps poorly worded or you've interpreted it incorrectly but I meant the tell tale signs were there early in the season, not in the recruitment. Although given some of shite signed, such as Don Cowie, in hindsight the signs were probably there then.

Not wanting to speak for King but I understand what he's saying. The negative set up approach and approach to games toward the end of his first season continued into his second. Plus he was playing that cart horse Fortune and continued to do so despite signing and not giving opportunities to other forwards.
 
Fair enough mate......... but bear in mind that Rosler was a midge's away from a play off final.
 
He was, though perhaps a bit of a more positivity in that first play off fixture could have actually got us there. Overall he did well that first season, I think the volume of fixtures caught up with us in the end. I liked him but he just self destructed in his second season. His interview after the Bolton game was tantamount to a resignation speech, I don't think whelan had much choice at that point but to let him go.
 
The warning signs were definitely there with Rosler in his first season:

needless faffing with the line up - I think we only played the same line up twice in something like the last 17 or 18 games We also had a game v reading where we battered them 3-0 & he made a raft of changes for Burnley away in our next game & they were completely disjointed & lost. Then it was back to the Reading line up.
his signings - bar I think Waghorn (who he only used sporadically anyway) virtually all his signings were awful. Some would be brought straight in the starting line up, play one game, be awful & never be seen again or just every now & then
His style of play - I never once saw this high pressing game where every player was told that we needed to shoot with 10-20 seconds of gaining possession

That said, i don't blame him for the play off game - he was perhaps a tad too cautious at home but many play off games are like that. For the 2nd leg he was down to the bare bones of his squad & that's why Mclean was up top. Even then, we were all over QPR & in front - the key moment was when McArthur went off. From that point on we were never in the game
 
moonay said:
KDZ:
So, though Rosler took us up to the play offs, you thought "the signs were there towards the end of the previous year"? How does that work then ?

Sorry chaps, I don't mean to be overly-pernickety, its just that such glorious hindsight made up as "I always knew" never sits well with me.
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MB has covered it quite well above, but to add my 2 pence in:

I thought Rosler was actually a good choice, i liked what he said he was going to bring to us, his work at Brentford was impressive and i thought the Brentford fans being happy to get shut of him and saying Wartburton was the main man behind their success and their stats based scouting system was behind the success was just sour grapes. Unfortunately they were right after a hooneymoon period.

We got an epic new manager bounce and we were getting results, we had about a 20 game run where everything was looking very posative and i thought we had found the right man. But after we beat City in the Cup it seemed everything started to go wrong. I remember actually being quite mad at the team selection and subs in the FA cup game against Arsenal - i thought it was discraceful that we had Maloney and Espinosa as unused subs but McEcheran starting and Collison coming it and James McClean was left out of the squad entirely. Then we also brought Caldwell on who hadn't played all season and was crocked instead of Barnett who earlier in the season was one of our best players. I thought if we picked the right players or even just used the right subs we'd have very possibly won that game.

Team selections became stranger, the new signings (except Waghorn) were flopping, tactics were increasingly negative, with more tinkering, he seemed to fall out with Powell and McClean on top of his beef with Holt, he was favouring the likes of Carson, Collison / McEcheran and Kiernan over Ali, Esponosa and Barnnett who were much better options at the time and overall performances became quite dour and results became poor.

The 10 games of the regular season when we were looking for one big last push and we won about 3 of our last 10 games losing 5 and performances were getting increasingly dour and negative. We were actually quite lucky we didn't fall out of the play offs in the end.

Then against QPR at home in the play offs we were horribly negative and it felt like we played for a 0-0 which was crazy knowing how hard the away leg was going to be. Then at then at their place after scoring so early it seemed like we put everyone on the goal line and prayed to keep them out for about 80 minutes and scrape a 1-0 and it felt like not only was it asking for trouble. Again the starting line up and subs were crap - Powell was completely frozen out at this point (think there was the drink driving thing around then) when we needed him most, we started with Caldwell and Kiernan at CB which was a recipe for disaster, we had McClean up front playing his first ever game up front in such an important game but our most dangerous striker Waghorn on the bench and left Fortune out of the squad when we had no one else capable of holding a ball - which would've been very useful if you are going to play so negatively. I think our approach to those 2 play off games were so cowardly and counter intuative when there was so much at stake.

The fact all his few signings seemed be be so poor also made me think 'why are we trusting this guy with so much money'.

If you'd have asked me at the time I'd have said exactly what i've said above and how could you not have concerns about that? I would've given him the benefit of the doubt and hoped he'd get us back to where we were after he first arrived, but i wasn't confident about giving him 12m to spend at all. I was all for the Rosler appointment and intitially i thought we'd got it right but by the end of the season I had lost a lot of faith based on what he'd shown us. Not enough to write him off or sack him but i thought all the signs were there that it was going to go wrong - but i never would've guessed they'd go that badly wrong. I was thinking he'd end up more like Coyle's disapointing mid table tenure rather than the relegation fodder he turned us into.

I wont dive into the Caldwell debate again - I thought the ability to outspend the opposition so heavily in a really weak league got us over the line in L1 but still he showed all the signs that tactically he'd be exposed without having that advantage in the Championship.
 
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king_dezeeuw06 said:
The fact all his few signings seemed be be so poor also made me think 'why are we trusting this guy with so much money'..
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We might disagree about referee's KDZ but i said exactly the same thing to my mates at one of the end of season games & again on here (possibly CL).
The disagreements I got online were that he'd had to rely on loans and cast offs as Coyle had spent all the budget so he'd be fine with his own budget to spend

I didn't even think Waghorn was that good - useful as an impact sub but flattered to deceive whenever he started. Even Rosler seemed not to especially rate him - which made signing him all the more bizarre. I remember saying at the time that it was an odd moment to make the signing permanent - we were challenging for promotion &, had we got it, there was no way on earth he was good enough for the top flight (still isn't) so why were we making signings for if we stayed down when we had him on loan until the end of the season??
 
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