No deal (n/g) | Page 10 | Vital Football

No deal (n/g)

I know some Brexiters aren't keen on evidence but two minutes of googling will find you plenty of it. Here you go (sorry I don't know how to do links):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/08/german-industry-warns-uk-over-brexit

and if you won't read the Guardian out of principle, you might prefer this:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863180/Brexit-news-UK-Germany-carmakers-cars-Brussels-EU-latest-Theresa-May-European-Union-video

Still, it'll all be the Remoaners fault in the end for not sticking our fingers in our ears and believing hard enough.
 
Alderman Barnes - 19/10/2017 13:55

I know some Brexiters aren't keen on evidence but two minutes of googling will find you plenty of it. Here you go (sorry I don't know how to do links):

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/08/german-industry-warns-uk-over-brexit

and if you won't read the Guardian out of principle, you might prefer this:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863180/Brexit-news-UK-Germany-carmakers-cars-Brussels-EU-latest-Theresa-May-European-Union-video

Still, it'll all be the Remoaners fault in the end for not sticking our fingers in our ears and believing hard enough.
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Thanks, Alderman. Interesting although talk is cheap. It is easy for the German manufacturers to say that the EU ideals are more important until the effect on their profit margins are felt.

Even if we only account for 9% of their exports, it is still a huge sum and there is no escaping the fact that introductions of tariffs will be more profitable for the UK than the EU due to the overall monetary amounts involved in the exports/imports disparity if not the percentages.

We are also talking about the strongest economy in the EU so I never saw Germany as the member that would push the negotiators to make concessions anyway. Their economy is the only one larger than ours in the EU so they are best placed to withstand some pain.

When the scare stories about fly zones were mentioned last week, one politician asked at the weekend whether it was seriously likely that Spain, Italy or Greece would turn away all tourism from the UK by putting restrictions on the use of air space and their airports. Those are the sort of countries that are more likely to sacrifice the EU ideals if their precarious economies are threatened.
 
Audis you say, a premium product so people prepared to pay a premium. How many British buyers will buy "lesser" brands to avoid paying a bit more. Very few I'd suggest because they have bought into the idea of the product. Let's assume for a moment that a number can't, or won't pay the premium with tariffs on top. A relatively small hit for Germany except that there will be willing buyers elsewhere. Massive new markets are opening up for premium products as the middle class expands in China, India, etc. This isn't remoaning it's the way of the world.

Our one bargaining chip is money, which is why we are hammering it. After that it's underpants in a game of strip poker time.
 
?I'd be generous though and offer the EU a free trade agreement?

We already have one. Maybe we should keep the one we?ve got.
 
Gills1958 - 19/10/2017 13:03

I still haven't had an answer regarding he right of the people to change their minds. If a clear majority end up regretting Leave, will they get the opportunity to reverse the decision? Are we stuck with this for ever, no matter what?
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I created a poll for this!
 
"If we leave the EU without any concrete agreement and trade on WTO terms we'd be many billions to the good."

How could that be if all imports/exports are hit by a tariff? EU states will start looking elsewhere for goods; you overlook the fact that Canada and Japan have just concluded trade deals with the EU; they weren't just done for fun but for real goods and services. Moreover, with the possibility of the next Astra being made outside the UK and a stronger possibility that at least two of the three Japanese car makers will pull out of the UK [they chose us because 1. we're in the UK and 2. we have more flexible employment arrangements than elsewhere in the EU] but make little or no money here because of the value of the pound, we could end up having to import the greater majority of medium/small cars in future. We'd then be left possibly with one Japanese car maker alongside the luxury and quirky brands made here, although I've always fancied a Bristol.
 
You've truly been brainwashed; no-one is suggesting we ever become part of some Federation as you insist.
 
You obviously missed Juncker's State of the Union speech Wayne.
That is exactly what he said.
Some may argue that is only one man's dream, but my suspicion is that this was always on the cards.
Another lie exposed by the Remain campaign when trying to pretend that the vote was to leave and Armageddon or the status quo.
What is now, was never on the table and with qualified majority voting, it's inevitable.
I don't think that the UK will be the last to leave the EU.
 
?The principle of subsidiarity means that action should only be taken at EU level when the desired objectives cannot be effectively achieved by means of action taken at national or regional level. For example, EU-level action might be justified because it is more efficient for companies trading across EU borders to have to comply with one set of laws, rather than 28. National Parliaments have specific powers to check proposed EU laws for compliance with the principle of subsidiary.?

Sounds pretty sensible to me and isn?t a loss of sovereignty.
 
TheRealWaldo : are you an unpleasant person or just soo self righteous in your belief that you are correct?

I have no issues whatsoever with anybody around their reasoning for voting to stay or go ... its a personal thing and its exactly why we have the democratic system we do, in order to allow people to have a voice and state their views.

Voting to leave, will impact my business interests in the short term ... I will undoubtedly be worse off in the short / near-term ..... but, I believe that in the long run, the EU and its current direction will not benefit the majority of the UK or Europe.

Your response to people on this matter, is rude, sarcastic, arrogant and unpleasant at best.

It's a shame you are not more capable of engaging with other peoples views, because you are clearly intelligent and have an opinion that is considered... shame it gets smothered in a self righteous narrative.

 
Strood, I also find that when Brexiteers start losing the argument they tend to get personal. Of course you couldn't possibly call anyone else on here self righteous could you ?
 
Therealwaldo - 19/10/2017 18:58

Strood, I also find that when Brexiteers start losing the argument they tend to get personal. Of course you couldn't possibly call anyone else on here self righteous could you ?
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It seems many remainers start off being personal with the defence of their position :-)

"you couldn't possibly call anyone else on here self righteous could you ?" yes, I'm sure we could, on that point I would concur ... but being self righteous, doesn't preclude somebody from being right ;-)

As for starting to lose the argument, I'm not sure how either a remain or an exit position could possibly claim to 'win' the argument at this stage... I doubt it will ever be black/white as to whether it was the right thing to do, very few complex things in life ever really are.

I happen to believe that the net-net will be + ... fingers crossed my position is the right one, after all, would you really want to be right about your assertion? Sometimes its good to be wrong .... I really hope you are wrong.

I'm confident in the UK's ability to push past hard-times and obstacles in order to further build what is in my opinion the best place on planet earth to live and be free!

Come on team UK !

 
For the benefit of Trashbat;

Scores.

Davis 2 doesn't appear to know his arse from his elbow. Has perfected the art of going backwards and forwards at the same time.

Fox 1 still trying to win a game that finished about 50 years ago.

Johnson 2 sole purpose seems to be to wind up the opposition.

May 1.5 would do better if there wasn't a war going on between the members of the board.

For the other side.

Barnier 3 consistent but seems to be stuck in one part of the pitch.

Juncker 3 seems to have a game plan but spends too much time in a prone position.

How's that ?
 
Therealwaldo - 19/10/2017 19:27

For the benefit of Trashbat;

Scores.

Davis 2 doesn't appear to know his arse from his elbow. Has perfected the art of going backwards and forwards at the same time.

Fox 1 still trying to win a game that finished about 50 years ago.

Johnson 2 sole purpose seems to be to wind up the opposition.

May 1.5 would do better if there wasn't a war going on between the members of the board.

For the other side.

Barnier 3 consistent but seems to be stuck in one part of the pitch.

Juncker 3 seems to have a game plan but spends too much time in a prone position.

How's that ?
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I actually think that David David is doing a splendid job in incredibly difficult circumstances. He?s the only Brexiteer that has made a compelling argument for Brexit. I don?t agree with it, but it was refreshing hearing a reasoned argument for Brexit rather than hearing lie-ridden sound bites from politicians. He?s also been handicapped by various others (including the PM) creating daft red lines. He?s the equivalent to Aaron Morris... ...good solid player but carrying an injury. 7/10.

On the EU side, I think they?re scoring high marks. Consistent, no in fighting, no leaks, defiant, no own goals. They?re solid 7s across the board, with the exception of Junker who I?d mark down to 5 because he has a few hissy fits. Perhaps MoTM is the Maltese PM for leaving the door open for UK not to leave at all.




 
Hannan, is he going to be unemployed SB?

Will he have to wait 6+ weeks for his Universal Credit to come through and then struggle to pay off the rent arrears

What do you think?

Man of principle my arse.

BTW you can thank Corbyn for his limp performance allowing this foolhardy Leave vote to prevail.

BTW x 2 What is your obsession with everyone on the left being a Marxist? Is it meant to be a childish insult? You've accused me of being a Marxist Law lecturer before. The Greek.leader is supposedly one ( he was in the Communist party there about 20 years ago). TBH, I'm not sure what a Marxist is, so thanks for letting me know what I am. Silly me, I thought I believed in Social Democracy, say on the Swedish model.
 
StroodYesAnotherOne - 19/10/2017 18:41

TheRealWaldo : are you an unpleasant person or just soo self righteous in your belief that you are correct?

I have no issues whatsoever with anybody around their reasoning for voting to stay or go ... its a personal thing and its exactly why we have the democratic system we do, in order to allow people to have a voice and state their views.

Voting to leave, will impact my business interests in the short term ... I will undoubtedly be worse off in the short / near-term ..... but, I believe that in the long run, the EU and its current direction will not benefit the majority of the UK or Europe.

Your response to people on this matter, is rude, sarcastic, arrogant and unpleasant at best.

It's a shame you are not more capable of engaging with other peoples views, because you are clearly intelligent and have an opinion that is considered... shame it gets smothered in a self righteous narrative.
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Lol. Pot and Kettle.

Across a range of issues, including the Gills, Waldo has shown himself to be one of the nicest people on this board. Perhaps it is irritating for you to have someone argue so articulately against you (more articulately than I've managed tbh).


 
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