Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
In this instance, nigh on the same thing.
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- Thread starter ZAKKY
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In this instance, nigh on the same thing.
FrancosLoveChild
Vital Football Hero
ZAKKY
Vital Football Hero
Er I think you will find that was for AFC Wigan where Clilverd was the one director after Cristo got the boot
Today's company registered TODAY is FLM Wigan Ath Ltd with Clilverd as only director
moonay
Vital Football Legend
If only Zakky wasn't ignoring me !
For what it's worth, Cristo wasn't actually listed as a Director, it was his brother, along with an accountant, Victoria Condratova. Both now resigned.
Soccerates
Vital Youth Team
I've seen a lot of speculating as to what the prospective new owners may or may not do, rumour and innuendo is swirling in the air like a dense fog and there's precious few facts to go off.
As with the IEC bid, there was quite a bit of information out there and myself and others out there only really researched that properly after the debacle, but it was quite clear to see that they shouldn't have been anywhere near us - the links to the Philippines, being on the ground floor with betting regs, politicians, even hosting the PAGCOR at their HQ for a time, the shady sponsorship of Melbourne Victory, it was all hiding in plain sight.
A lot of people this time round have done some very good research and that information seemed to find its way to the EFL, hence the ditching of the people who would have been the English arm of the Spanish team behind it. Now, I put that down personally to naivety on Moreno's part, but obviously it has left people (myself included) twitchy about the prospect of their ownership.
That being said, returning to the facts, Moreno has nothing like the dodgy maneuvers that Choi has had. Also, at this stage, I would rather have no promises than a bunch of hollow ones, not based in any kind of reality.
As far as Lisa Nandy goes, I'm sure that her heart is in the right place when it comes to trying to do what's right for Wigan as a town. That isn't always commensurate with what's right for Wigan Athletic. Of course that means taking on board what our croos code rivals want as well, which isn't exactly helpful to us, when they owe money which may have helped retain a player or two.
Krasner stating he isn't a moralist, well, to him and to Begbies Traynor I say this - you've lied, you've been caught lying, more than once. We know full well you're not moralistic.
The EFL collating the evidence is taking time but I suspect and expect there's much more than our club on the brink here and we do have to respect that also. However, their bumbling about at the start really hasn't enamoured them to us.
I feel we need to keep our sights set on the real targets here. Begbies, the EFL and the owner of the rugby club who has stifled our progress.
As with the IEC bid, there was quite a bit of information out there and myself and others out there only really researched that properly after the debacle, but it was quite clear to see that they shouldn't have been anywhere near us - the links to the Philippines, being on the ground floor with betting regs, politicians, even hosting the PAGCOR at their HQ for a time, the shady sponsorship of Melbourne Victory, it was all hiding in plain sight.
A lot of people this time round have done some very good research and that information seemed to find its way to the EFL, hence the ditching of the people who would have been the English arm of the Spanish team behind it. Now, I put that down personally to naivety on Moreno's part, but obviously it has left people (myself included) twitchy about the prospect of their ownership.
That being said, returning to the facts, Moreno has nothing like the dodgy maneuvers that Choi has had. Also, at this stage, I would rather have no promises than a bunch of hollow ones, not based in any kind of reality.
As far as Lisa Nandy goes, I'm sure that her heart is in the right place when it comes to trying to do what's right for Wigan as a town. That isn't always commensurate with what's right for Wigan Athletic. Of course that means taking on board what our croos code rivals want as well, which isn't exactly helpful to us, when they owe money which may have helped retain a player or two.
Krasner stating he isn't a moralist, well, to him and to Begbies Traynor I say this - you've lied, you've been caught lying, more than once. We know full well you're not moralistic.
The EFL collating the evidence is taking time but I suspect and expect there's much more than our club on the brink here and we do have to respect that also. However, their bumbling about at the start really hasn't enamoured them to us.
I feel we need to keep our sights set on the real targets here. Begbies, the EFL and the owner of the rugby club who has stifled our progress.
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Made in Wigan
Vital Champions League
An excellent post Soccerates. Not saying I agree with it all but it’s fair and balanced.
Soccerates
Vital Youth Team
Well, thank you for that. On the one hand I do feel very suspicious about the English arm as I put it, in particular Contradova, who has some... Odd dealings, I'll say - if Moreno knows about that and ignored it then he's as bad as Choi is and that does concern me. I'm trying, at this stage, to give them the benefit of the doubt and let's be clear - we could have had Smurthwaite and all that comes with him and his dealings are more than irregular. There was also rumours of some of those involved with Charlton Athletic circling and that would've been a disaster too.
What I'd like to see is us becoming a self-sustaining club, with facilities and an academy which match up to at the very least the best of our divisional rivals (whatever division we're in - League 2 looking very likely at the moment), a manager who is given a 3-5 year remit to produce players and use them, with 1-2 sold aleach season and 1-2 replacing them.
What I feel (although the present situation isn't great) is that the ground as a building isn't used anywhere like as well as it could be and that really needed looking at. There's office spaces (Hamilton Accies have done that recently) which could rented out, media, concerts and so on. Those avenues for extra income need exploiting - Tranmere, for example, have had Little Mix and Madness play at their ground in the past 4-5 years and that's something we ought to look at in the medium-term.
Darren Royle talked of all the bells and whistles of having a Premier League standard analysis suite, expanding our wage bill. Pumping a lot of unnecessary funds for folly isn't going to work, although having those things would be advantageous in the future, when we can properly scout players. Another consideration is Brexit, which would make this region even more competitive. Our larger rivals for young players will effectively be forced into long term loans for their foreign youngsters and in turn they will turn their attention back on the local talents. The Spanish people will do well to heed that in the long term.
My worry is that we are being bought to flip us in the short term and I wouldn't want us to go through several owners in a short space of time, the turnover of staff across all aspects would be alarming. I couldn't go through this every 3 or 4 seasons.
R
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I hate to say it, but unfortunately I think that's exactly why Moreno has bought us...to flip us within a few years to make him some cash. Ultimately men like him with zero personal attraction to an English lower league club buy them for two reasons (both financially related). One - to get them to the Premier League and more specifically bank the hundreds of millions in TV money (possible for monster clubs like Sunderland, not so much us), or two, improve our standing on and off the pitch with minimal amount of personal investment and sell us on for far more than they paid to buy it. A L2 or even L1 Wigan Athletic won't be getting to the Premier League anytime soon, which leaves only option two.
Folk will throw the "but Leganes made it to La Liga" card at me. Reality check, getting a small club to the top tier of Spanish football from the third tier is a thousand times easier than doing it with an English club. If Moreno doesn't know this yet, then he's going to find out the hard way just like IEC did. Where that leaves us in two years down the line...who knows.
Folk will throw the "but Leganes made it to La Liga" card at me. Reality check, getting a small club to the top tier of Spanish football from the third tier is a thousand times easier than doing it with an English club. If Moreno doesn't know this yet, then he's going to find out the hard way just like IEC did. Where that leaves us in two years down the line...who knows.
springy-park
Vital 1st Team Regular
I have started a new thread- DW Stadium-Tenant,
on how much we are paying for rent,maintenance, pitch costs ect,
and how much is Latics making in revenues on Match Days from
drinks, food ect?
I hope Moreno has factered in all these costs, as revenues could be
well below our outgoings, if we stay in L1 or even worse in L2,
HudWiganFan
Vital Reserves Team
It does seem like there are some who actively want Moreno to tear the club apart, just to be right and to be able to say "I told you so" because they preferred another bid, which is both baffling and disturbing in equal measure quite honestly given the pain everyone involved has been through in the last 5 months.
Despite a very loud minority making Moreno out to be worse than Choi and Yeung combined (based on nothing but conjecture), any outside source that has made public comment about Moreno has been overwhelmingly positive in their assessment of everything he's done at Leganes. In contrast, almost all the negativity has largely been unsubstantiated claims and wild rumours from people on here, anonymous 'sources' and people who've clearly been directed to spread stories on behalf of another bidder(s).
All this nattering about the Supporters' Club not giving their blessing - we simply don't know as they haven't made public comment one way or the other. It's easy to take that as a condemnation of Moreno, but it could equally be down to NDAs and a variety of other plausible reasons but unsurprisingly that balance hasn't been displayed on here and people have run away with the negative angle.
There's no reason to believe Moreno is any worse than the other bids, given the lack of substantial information we have about their plans. We don't even know if Royle and Frampton have even put up the £3.5 million needed to buy the club, let alone the deposit and everything else needed. All we know is that they've bid, but that doesn't mean they've even come close to the asking price. They could easily be all the way back at the negotiating stage like Ganaye was, who turned people's heads with promises of billionaire money but never coughed up the cash and tried to move us to feckin' Leigh because they were too cheap to buy the stadium. Frankel and Kalt were painted as these great saviours willing to bank-role us with promises of lavish spending - remind you of anyone?
There is rightly concern over Cristo, but (for now) he and his crew are gone so there's really no point thinking about them. Every time Moreno has been asked to put up the cash (the initial bid, deposit and the extra million) he's delivered straight away, whereas Frampton couldn't even give a straight answer on the deposit in that interview he did with a fan a few weeks ago if I remember rightly.
Another criticism I've seen is that Moreno is out to make money - of course he is! So are Frampton and Royle's backer! So are the majority of EFL owners these days. The days of wealthy local benefactors happily tunnelling millions into Wigan with no return are sadly over, and despite huge promises Frampton's backed by a Hong Kong corporation just like IEC were and who's to say they won't pull the plug when we inevitably don't shoot up the league as Frampton hopes? Of course that doesn't mean it would happen, but it's worth mentioning in balance considering the sh*t Moreno has been getting relentlessly on here over the last few days.
If the reality of the Moreno ownership is a sustainable League One club that leans on its academy to churn out players then so be it - that's probably where we as a club realistically should be right now given the ridiculous level of finances in the English game. There's a number of 'bigger clubs' historically that have floated around this level for years (Plymouth, Portsmouth, Bradford) so I really don't get this whole 'we're above League One and being in it for more than a year or two is a failure' philosophy - I think that comes from being spoiled so much over the last couple of decades, but even our seasons dominating League One were down to pumping in so much more money than most other clubs in the division rather than being a reflection of our actual natural level as a club. Take a look at our 17/18 wage bill compared to almost every other club that season. Crazy and not really too sustainable.
I'd rather someone come in and - at least for the next couple of years - be frugal and sensible rather than play the game of risk like Royle and IEC did, by speculating to accumulate and building up massive wage bills that would leave us in the mire if the far-flung owners were to pull the plug at any point which they did. It only took one withheld monthly payment from Yeung to send our club crashing and burning to the ground - that's how risky and fragile our finances were at the time and to be honest I don't want to see a repeat of it, even if it means sacrificing Championship football for the foreseeable future because nobody wants to go through this again.
Fact is that we're potentially a few hours away from climbing out of the administration hole - whoever puts up the millions needed to do so shouldn't be vilified until there's actual justification for it. Maybe that makes me naïve or foolish or whatever else you want to say, but I won't apologise for celebrating and feeling relief if indeed the sale goes through this week.
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jeffs right
Vital Football Hero
Doubling the Warriors rent would give us a little more cash and make the stadium a bit more viable. They would still have a bargain and wouldn't have to divert that much away from being the high spenders they are in Super League.
Arthur_Itis
Vital Squad Member
Best post I've read for ages Huds and mirrors my own feelings exactly, wish I'd been able to articulate it so eloquently.
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
That's all very well Arthur but to get up at 5:30 with that rattling about yer bonce all night is going to make him ill.
Arthur_Itis
Vital Squad Member
There's a lot of folks who's sleep patterns are all over the place at the moment Hindley, I know mine are.
Anyway, 05:31 here is 06:31 in Madrid, perhaps it was Mr Moerno posting :-)
hindleymonwafc
Vital Champions League
Well hopefully we all sleep well toneet owd lad.
Spot on mate difference being you said this politely and I couldn't well said
It's not hard though to spend high in super league
Yea me too
HudWiganFan
Vital Reserves Team
Getting up very early for work can sometimes make me irritable, so I chose to get it all out for the day by venting my spleen to all you lucky people on here! Sorry!
E
exiled tic
Guest
Great post that Hud ,I must say you hit the nail on the head with this splendid post!
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