Member of Parliament calls for a 6pm curfew for men | Page 33 | Vital Football

Member of Parliament calls for a 6pm curfew for men

Buddha said:
There have been protests in dozens of towns and cities over the last week or two
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Were there 'thousands' attending them too ?
I only ask , because I've seen hardly anything about these other protests.
The images i have seen , have appeared to be mostly girls , students etc.
 
Buddha said:
The moment riot police turn up and start lashing out things change, and then far more of those in the crowd are prepared to fight back.
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The moment violent protestors turn up and start lashing out things change, and then far more of those in the Police are prepared to uphold the law.

Am I playing devils advocate? Yes, but as already expressed numerous times by various posters on this and other threads, there's always two sides to a story.
 
Buddha said:
There is sometimes a tiny minority who want to fight the police (see the video of the Brighton protest and my comments about them, earlier in the thread, #585).

Thing is, when the riot police aren't deployed, those protesters wanting violence do not have the support of the overwhelming majority of the crowd. Most people want to protest peacefully.

The moment riot police turn up and start lashing out things change, and then far more of those in the crowd are prepared to fight back.

There have been protests in dozens of towns and cities over the last week or two. The only ones where there has been any significant violence are the ones where riot police have been deployed.

If/when there are protesters initiating violence they must be condemned. The PCSC Bill is about stopping peaceful protest.
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Ffs, I said that about 100 posts ago 😂
Remove the enemy and there is no war.
And if they want to kick off among themselves, let them get on with it.
 
Not sure why you're talking about police or protester violence unless you're specifically referring to events in Bristol.

What about all the protests that passed off peacefully?

This weekend there are going to be protests in:

London,
Birmingham,
Bristol,
Brighton,
Sheffield,,
Manchester
Folkestone (1pm, Leas Band Stand)
Cambridge,
Oxford,
Taunton,
Bath
Exeter,
Abersytwyth,
Newcastle,
Cardiff,
Barnstaple,
Bath,
Bournemouth,
Leicester,
Bridgwater,
Northampton,
Derby,
Stoke-on-Trent,
Plymouth,
Truro,
Lincoln,
Malvern,
York,
Guildford,
Southampton

How many of these protests do you think will get violent?!

Can you not understand that this is about your right to protest peacefully???!!!

Nobody is attempting to defend violent disorder. Why are you prepared to give up your right to peaceful protest so easily?

Do you not agree that peaceful protest is an integral part of democracy?
 
"What about all the protests that passed off peacefully?"

Were there no police present at those?

"How many of these protests do you think will get violent?!"

Will it just be those with a police presence?

"This weekend there are going to be protests in:......"

Will only the ones with police present be violent?

Please note I omitted the word "riot" before the word "police" as there is no such thing as "riot police" as I have explained before.

Also, can I ask a serious question? Why do the demos in Bristol always make their way to the police station? They do know its not the police that pass these bills I take it? Would they not be better off protesting at local government buildings? Does encampment outside the local cop shop singing "kill the bill" not seem somewhat provocative? (Yes, I know that's not what they mean but another phrase could have been just as effective, especially outside a police station).

If they were protesting about something police related I could understand but you can see how their actions would cause suspicion from onlookers surely? I thought the whole idea of protests were to get some sort of support or at least sympathy for the cause?

When I went on the police pay march, it was a silent protest where we all wore the same white t shirt and baseball cap, there were 30,000 of us and we were clapped and cheered along the route. (Home office and parliament) It was a very powerful sight and most commentators and public spoke out in our support.
 
Buddha said:
Not sure why you're talking about police or protester violence unless you're specifically referring to events in Bristol.

What about all the protests that passed off peacefully?

This weekend there are going to be protests in:

London,
Birmingham,
Bristol,
Brighton,
Sheffield,,
Manchester
Folkestone (1pm, Leas Band Stand)
Cambridge,
Oxford,
Taunton,
Bath
Exeter,
Abersytwyth,
Newcastle,
Cardiff,
Barnstaple,
Bath,
Bournemouth,
Leicester,
Bridgwater,
Northampton,
Derby,
Stoke-on-Trent,
Plymouth,
Truro,
Lincoln,
Malvern,
York,
Guildford,
Southampton

How many of these protests do you think will get violent?!

Can you not understand that this is about your right to protest peacefully???!!!

Nobody is attempting to defend violent disorder. Why are you prepared to give up your right to peaceful protest so easily?

Do you not agree that peaceful protest is an integral part of democracy?
Click to expand...

😂
If the Barnstaple protest turns out anything like the Extinction Rebellion one, there will be 12 people there.
A couple of old Hippies, three or four school kids and the guy who owns the record shop, who turns up to everything.
It will still make the North Devon Gazette as that will be the biggest thing that has happened this year.
I remember the stop Brexit demo in Bideford.
Half a dozen sixty year olds. One bought her knitting and Yorkshire Terrier.
Keep the faith brothers and sisters and fight on 😂😂

Anyway, enough of this.
We kick off in a minute
👍 UTG
 
I've got half a mind to go to Folkestone and roll my eyes / shake my head at the protestors. Does anyone know what the weather is supposed to be like at the weekend?
 
Buddha said:
Not sure why you're talking about police or protester violence unless you're specifically referring to events in Bristol.

What about all the protests that passed off peacefully?

This weekend there are going to be protests in:

London,
Birmingham,
Bristol,
Brighton,
Sheffield,,
Manchester
Folkestone (1pm, Leas Band Stand)
Cambridge,
Oxford,
Taunton,
Bath
Exeter,
Abersytwyth,
Newcastle,
Cardiff,
Barnstaple,
Bath,
Bournemouth,
Leicester,
Bridgwater,
Northampton,
Derby,
Stoke-on-Trent,
Plymouth,
Truro,
Lincoln,
Malvern,
York,
Guildford,
Southampton

How many of these protests do you think will get violent?!

Can you not understand that this is about your right to protest peacefully???!!!

Nobody is attempting to defend violent disorder. Why are you prepared to give up your right to peaceful protest so easily?

Do you not agree that peaceful protest is an integral part of democracy?
Click to expand...

Of course most of these protest will go off peacefully. That's because most of them are in rural or small market towns and about half a dozen posh old women will turn up. I speak from experience having seen in the flesh and plastered all over out local media and social media groups some of the pro-illegal immigrant protests in Folkestone - there were a dozen maximum, mainly old people, nearly all posh, 100% white, mostly women and mainly anorak wearing greenie types. They're hardly going to kick off and riot and I imagine the same "crew" of a dozen, if that, will turn up at the Lees this weekend and other similar such places at the weekend.
 
SteveTreacle said:
Of course most of these protest will go off peacefully. That's because most of them are in rural or small market towns and about half a dozen posh old women will turn up. I speak from experience having seen in the flesh and plastered all over out local media and social media groups some of the pro-illegal immigrant protests in Folkestone - there were a dozen maximum, mainly old people, nearly all posh, 100% white, mostly women and mainly anorak wearing greenie types. They're hardly going to kick off and riot and I imagine the same "crew" of a dozen, if that, will turn up at the Lees this weekend and other similar such places at the weekend.
Click to expand...

If most of these protests will go off peacefully what makes them different to the majority of all protests?

What does it matter how many people are protesting, so long as it is peaceful and non-violent? A one-man (or woman) non-violent protest is just as legitimate as a non-violent protest that has a million or more.

Indeed, would you not agree that a a one man (or woman) non-violent protest is more legitimate than a large violent protest?

You seem to be (wilfully?) missing the point of all this.

Nobody is suggesting that violent protest/disorder/rioting is acceptable or desirable. (Ok, some revolutionaries might suggest those things, but these protests aren't about fanning the flames of violent revolution, rather they are about defending our freedoms and protecting our democracy).

You come across, Steve, as quite a patriotic chap. I'd always assumed that one of the things that makes you proud to be English/British is the strength of our democracy and the fact that, compared to many places around the world, we have so many freedoms here - hard fought freedoms at that.

Yet here you are, quite happy to just relinquish the people's right to free assembly and to peaceful protest. Quite happy that those who attack an inanimate object will face up to ten years in prison, whereas those who attack and rape our women only face around five years jail time. None of this seems concomitant with a man who is supposedly proud of the country he was born in because of it's ideals of democracy, freedom and tolerance.

The great thing about the freedom of protest is that it allows for a one man (or one woman) protest. It could be about anything. It might be about something absurd or even undesirable. But if you don't like it there are two options, both of which are far, far superior than simply banning the protest:

1) You could ignore it. This is the most simple solution. If the protest is very small and very few people are interested in or bothered about the issue being protested, ignoring it seems the best option. However, if you don't want to ignore it you can always...

2) Organise your own counter-protest. If people agree with you they can join you. This is the thing about freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. If there are some protesters shouting things you don't agree with you could always make more noise than them. Then your voice(s) get heard and theirs don't.

Simply banning all protest is not the answer. You might like it if the annoying lefty fuckers aren't allowed to demonstrate but what about when it's an organisation campaigning for something you agree with? Protests aren't restricted to the Left.

We don't have to have the same politics to be on the same side here. Your position of wanting peaceful protests banned is short-sighted. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face; don't support this Bill just to restrict/stifle your political opponents. Once our freedoms are removed the country that you love wont be the same. Tolerance of opposing views and the right (for all) to peacefully protest are an essential part of the country you love. Don't just give that all up because of a hatred of those with different beliefs than yourself.
 
Nobby_66 said:
"What about all the protests that passed off peacefully?"

Were there no police present at those?

"How many of these protests do you think will get violent?!"

Will it just be those with a police presence?

"This weekend there are going to be protests in:......"

Will only the ones with police present be violent?

Please note I omitted the word "riot" before the word "police" as there is no such thing as "riot police" as I have explained before.

Also, can I ask a serious question? Why do the demos in Bristol always make their way to the police station? They do know its not the police that pass these bills I take it? Would they not be better off protesting at local government buildings? Does encampment outside the local cop shop singing "kill the bill" not seem somewhat provocative? (Yes, I know that's not what they mean but another phrase could have been just as effective, especially outside a police station).

If they were protesting about something police related I could understand but you can see how their actions would cause suspicion from onlookers surely? I thought the whole idea of protests were to get some sort of support or at least sympathy for the cause?

When I went on the police pay march, it was a silent protest where we all wore the same white t shirt and baseball cap, there were 30,000 of us and we were clapped and cheered along the route. (Home office and parliament) It was a very powerful sight and most commentators and public spoke out in our support.
Click to expand...

I agree that police stations aren't the most appropriate place for these protests to be focused. Governmental buildings would be better. Especially considering most police forces are against the Bill as they already have enough powers to deal with protesters and travellers.

Actually, I agree with most of your post, nobby.*

Maybe part of the reason that the protests have made mistakes like these is that they haven't been properly organised. A large part of the reason for why this is, is that it stops the police from targeting and punishing, 'the organisers'. If nobody organises anything then everybody is responsible. I am Spartacus!


* the only bit I'd take issue with is your opening question. I've already said, way back in the thread when shotty suggested there should be no police present at any protests ever, that there are times when it is absolutely essential to have police present at a protest. The problem isn't police presence, it is the presence of the riot police. OK, so you tell me there is no such thing as 'riot' police, but isn't that just semantics? For clarification, when I talk of 'riot police' I am referring to the ones that dress up like RoboCop and have batons, and shields and attack dogs. If those police (what do you call those type of police?) aren't deployed it's unlikely there will be violence. When they are deployed the chance of violence increase dramatically.

I accept that if the protest turns violent then the call in then police with the protective clothing, the helmets, the shields and the batons. But when they are in position before any violence has occurred their presence is more likely to spark violence from the protesters than is the presence of normal police in normal police uniform.

I have already defended the MET at the vigil, and have spoken in praise of the Sussex police at the Brighton demo. Neither of the police forces involved in those events felt the need to "tool up". In both of those cases the police behaved in a measured way and helped to prevent (violent) disorder.
 
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Buddha said:
If most of these protests will go off peacefully what makes them different to the majority of all protests?

What does it matter how many people are protesting, so long as it is peaceful and non-violent? A one-man (or woman) non-violent protest is just as legitimate as a non-violent protest that has a million or more.

Indeed, would you not agree that a a one man (or woman) non-violent protest is more legitimate than a large violent protest?

You seem to be (wilfully?) missing the point of all this.

Nobody is suggesting that violent protest/disorder/rioting is acceptable or desirable. (Ok, some revolutionaries might suggest those things, but these protests aren't about fanning the flames of violent revolution, rather they are about defending our freedoms and protecting our democracy).

You come across, Steve, as quite a patriotic chap. I'd always assumed that one of the things that makes you proud to be English/British is the strength of our democracy and the fact that, compared to many places around the world, we have so many freedoms here - hard fought freedoms at that.

Yet here you are, quite happy to just relinquish the people's right to free assembly and to peaceful protest. Quite happy that those who attack an inanimate object will face up to ten years in prison, whereas those who attack and rape our women only face around five years jail time. None of this seems concomitant with a man who is supposedly proud of the country he was born in because of it's ideals of democracy, freedom and tolerance.

The great thing about the freedom of protest is that it allows for a one man (or one woman) protest. It could be about anything. It might be about something absurd or even undesirable. But if you don't like it there are two options, both of which are far, far superior than simply banning the protest:

1) You could ignore it. This is the most simple solution. If the protest is very small and very few people are interested in or bothered about the issue being protested, ignoring it seems the best option. However, if you don't want to ignore it you can always...

2) Organise your own counter-protest. If people agree with you they can join you. This is the thing about freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. If there are some protesters shouting things you don't agree with you could always make more noise than them. Then your voice(s) get heard and theirs don't.

Simply banning all protest is not the answer. You might like it if the annoying lefty fuckers aren't allowed to demonstrate but what about when it's an organisation campaigning for something you agree with? Protests aren't restricted to the Left.

We don't have to have the same politics to be on the same side here. Your position of wanting peaceful protests banned is short-sighted. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face; don't support this Bill just to restrict/stifle your political opponents. Once our freedoms are removed the country that you love wont be the same. Tolerance of opposing views and the right (for all) to peacefully protest are an essential part of the country you love. Don't just give that all up because of a hatred of those with different beliefs than yourself.
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Agree obviously re protest but the line of 'statues v rape' is a false and divisive narrative. The fact is that you can get 'up to' 10 years for statue stuff against 'up to' life for rape. Both items have next to nothing to do with this the problems with this current bill.
The 10 years is not even in the bill but its an inconvenient truth.

The issue is as you say that there is no common organisation or aim and little stewarding.

Lets call it kill the bill, attack police stations and have a statues v rape agenda, all to divide the nation.
Are the authorities instigating these errors to divert us from the actual civil rights issues in the bill - otherwise how politically inept are these people.
 
shotshy said:
Confirmed Anarchist in love in with The House of Lords.
What strange bed fellows.
What strange times.
😉
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Inane comment. I don't support Swindon, quite the opposite. But if I see them play a good game, I can recognise that and applaud them.

Must try harder shotty.
 
SteveTreacle said:
Buddha must have changed. On this thread, he supports an unelected bunch of toffs in the House of Lord's; in another he wants the police to go and investigate potential crimes retrospectively where there is no evidence in order to find that evidence....
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He's not changed, he's always been like that.
 
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