LyttleByLyttle
Vital Football Hero
I didn't refer to Pearce and Walker, read what's posted you mug.
Match Thread: Sheffield Wendies Vs Forest Sponsored by Adam Federici's knee
- Thread starter Pope John XXIII
- Start date
I didn't refer to Pearce and Walker, read what's posted you mug.
Will.NFFC
Vital Football Hero
I'll tell you what fellas, I travelled up to watch Everton v spurs on Saturday as I had a ticket and while of course premier league strikers are better (particularly spurs), Everton were absolutely woeful at the back. Made us look compentant when I watched us V Wednesday after.
It wasn't even about prem opposition, just the basics were absolutely non existent! No marking not just from set pieces, but from any balls put in and around their box.
Made me feel a lot better about forest as Everton were woeful all over the pitch! Dreadful in every way! We need to improve defensively no doubt but let's not panick! Everyone's got there issues, even the so called big spending elite.
My only real concern at the moment outside the defensive frailties, is that we are slightly robotic at times. While i love that we are trying to be organised going forward and working our way through, I do think sometimes, we need to allow players to have a little freedom and individuality and have a run like McKay does! Just a thought.
It wasn't even about prem opposition, just the basics were absolutely non existent! No marking not just from set pieces, but from any balls put in and around their box.
Made me feel a lot better about forest as Everton were woeful all over the pitch! Dreadful in every way! We need to improve defensively no doubt but let's not panick! Everyone's got there issues, even the so called big spending elite.
My only real concern at the moment outside the defensive frailties, is that we are slightly robotic at times. While i love that we are trying to be organised going forward and working our way through, I do think sometimes, we need to allow players to have a little freedom and individuality and have a run like McKay does! Just a thought.
Calvin Plummer
Vital Football Legend
:19: :19:
LyttleByLyttle
Vital Football Hero
:14:
forestonourwayback
Vital 1st Team Regular
I think it's all been said really regarding the match. We played well for the most part, and didn't look that much inferior to Wednesday (not 3-1). We badly let ourselves down with our defending of a set piece. Essentially, it was one moment that killed our momentum and put wind in Wednesday's sails. We also missed chances (Cummings 2, Brereton 1).
I'm not sure what to say about the zonal marking versus man marking debate. Zonal marking may mean a player gets allocated a zone but it doesn't preclude him tracking a player that comes into his area. If you are playing zonal marking, you still have to take account of opposition movement, not to remain static in your zone.
The move to zonal marking may have been introduced by MW to get the defence to focus in a different way, as it has been inconsistent for a while now. Or it may have something to do with the crack down on balking /holding of opposition players in the box, when adopting man for man marking. This 'fouling' was getting out of hand and may have caused us problems going forward.
But is it all a red herring? I thought Fletcher made the header because he wanted it more than Worrall. Defenders need to be dominant and defend their area for all they're worth, because in a moment the match can be lost. Also we need to settle on personnel and system. Constant chopping and changing of the defence can't engender any stability /familiarity.
I feel Mancienne is quick and reads the game well. He should play with a big partner, say Hobbs or Mills. We should stick to a back four as three doesn't seem to work.
I'm not sure what to say about the zonal marking versus man marking debate. Zonal marking may mean a player gets allocated a zone but it doesn't preclude him tracking a player that comes into his area. If you are playing zonal marking, you still have to take account of opposition movement, not to remain static in your zone.
The move to zonal marking may have been introduced by MW to get the defence to focus in a different way, as it has been inconsistent for a while now. Or it may have something to do with the crack down on balking /holding of opposition players in the box, when adopting man for man marking. This 'fouling' was getting out of hand and may have caused us problems going forward.
But is it all a red herring? I thought Fletcher made the header because he wanted it more than Worrall. Defenders need to be dominant and defend their area for all they're worth, because in a moment the match can be lost. Also we need to settle on personnel and system. Constant chopping and changing of the defence can't engender any stability /familiarity.
I feel Mancienne is quick and reads the game well. He should play with a big partner, say Hobbs or Mills. We should stick to a back four as three doesn't seem to work.
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
A proper decent defender should know also how to cover his team mates when required.
Southern red
Vital Champions League
What I don't get, I'm assuming that we've been using zonal all pre season and on the training ground everyday
So why is it failing so badly?
Teams know it's our weakness
I think we have a decent team, it's just finding the right starting 11
So why is it failing so badly?
Teams know it's our weakness
I think we have a decent team, it's just finding the right starting 11
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
Southern, do you honestly think we have a good defence ?
factchecker
Vital Squad Member
I must have missed all the mentions of zonal marking as a problem after previous games this season, because I don't remember any.
Or it just a convenient scapegoat because it was mentioned by the Sky commentators on Saturday?
Or it just a convenient scapegoat because it was mentioned by the Sky commentators on Saturday?
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
lmao, quite.
McDurbanForest
Vital 1st Team Regular
That made me chuckle. When the commentators started going on about zonal defending of set pieces I thought "why have I never heard about this on vital?"
All these experts going on about how poor Forest are at defending and especially set pieces but no one picked up on zonal defending at all.
Not having a go, I enjoy the forum and its myriad personalities (with different accounts).
Its just that I'd have expected some of the more vocal & opinionated critics to have debated the concept of zonal defending at set pieces at some point while pointing out our obvious weaknesses.
Hobbs/mancienne plus darikwa and traore should be decent enough for this division
Darikwa manc Hobbs traore
Bridcutt. Vaughn
Bouch
McKay. Cummings
Murphy/brereton
Osborn can replace Vaughn as and when. Clough or dowell can replace the bouch or Cummings with McKay swapping. Basically mix up the attacking line ups depending on freshness and form
Darikwa manc Hobbs traore
Bridcutt. Vaughn
Bouch
McKay. Cummings
Murphy/brereton
Osborn can replace Vaughn as and when. Clough or dowell can replace the bouch or Cummings with McKay swapping. Basically mix up the attacking line ups depending on freshness and form
If MW wishes to play wingbacks - he needs to understand that McKay, Osborn & Carayol cannot play in that role. He made a similar mistake with regard to personel against Millwall.... Clough & Osborn are too similar.
Traore & Darikwa if playing wingbacks, Manc as sweeper behind 2 from Mills, Hobbs & Worrall..... Osborn is terrible in that wing back role and positionally very poor.
As soon as I saw the line up against Wednesday I feared the worst, which they fully exploited, but credit to MW for changing quickly - that said, we ended up wasting a sub.
Traore & Darikwa if playing wingbacks, Manc as sweeper behind 2 from Mills, Hobbs & Worrall..... Osborn is terrible in that wing back role and positionally very poor.
As soon as I saw the line up against Wednesday I feared the worst, which they fully exploited, but credit to MW for changing quickly - that said, we ended up wasting a sub.
Apollyon
Vital Football Legend
Maybe the issue is the narrow nature of the back 3 and the lack of balance with one winger and one wing back? Seems we always get done from out wide not that it has a reflection on set pieces but we often look stretched. Worrall had 3 men in his "zone" (1 less than AC had in him on Saturday night)
PsychoTheLegend
Vital Football Hero
Quite. Osborn is no way a wing back. Wasted there.
A more traditional 4 at the back is needed and we need to be less predictable by varying goal kicks.
A more traditional 4 at the back is needed and we need to be less predictable by varying goal kicks.
factchecker
Vital Squad Member
That's Chelsea influence, isn't it?
They won the league last year with Moses and Alonso playing as wing backs, so everyone thinks that's how you have to do it.
The ideal to play 352 is to have your two outside central defenders to be players who are comfortable playing centre back or full back and your wing backs comfortable as full back or winger. Because those four players will be required to do those two jobs.
We have Mancienne, Fox and Traore in the first category and only really Darikwa in the second (Osborn can play on the wing and started as a full-back but neither really play to his strengths).
mao tse tung
Vital Champions League
The experts that you are alluding to; would they be the arm chair experts that do not go to the games?
