Manchester City v Aston Villa Match Thread - Wed 20th Jan @ 6pm | Page 39 | Vital Football

Manchester City v Aston Villa Match Thread - Wed 20th Jan @ 6pm

The Fear said:
If he had cleared it, it wouldn't even be an issue.

Hey ho, game done now.
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If he had cleared it, he would have given possession back to Man City for absolutely no reason. The nearest onside Man City player was 20 yards ahead of him, he had time to chest it down and think about a pass, try and keep some possession and build an attack from the back as we have done all season.

There's no need to find fault in our players for a clear and obvious refereeing fuck up. If Mings kicked that ball out of play after chesting it down with no Man City players around him I would have been screaming at my TV.
 
The Fear said:
With respect, that just isn't true. A couple of top defenders / now pundits said the same. Just clear it. Rio Ferdinand was the one, I forget the other, might recall later, might have been Micah.

The argument against him is his lapses, or the slow to deal with balls. That was a perfect example - off side argument aside.

Top defenders sometimes just hit the ball into row z and allow the team to re-set.

Mings had done really well through the match, blocked some shots etc really well. But that lapse was costly, and as per the video MOTD showed, he knew full well where the player was, it wasn't as if this was a total surprise. Get the ball, deal with it.
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But why clear it and give the ball back to Man City when they already have us under pressure. He was trying to retain the ball and more than likely would have knocked it back to Martinez to let us re-set. He has gained an advantage by standing 15 yards offside.
The video of Ronaldo being flagged offside on the same night in the same situation says it all for me. He knew as soon as he flicked it away from the defender it was a free kick.
Whenever that has happened previously its always been called offside and nobody has ever argued the case.
 
You have to wonder if Pep and his team had sussed the loophole in the offside rule and had planned this.

Guaranteed if this happens against one of the Sky 6 that the loophole will get hastily closed up or a ref will disallow the goal on the basis of ungentlemanly conduct.
 
robbali said:
Had he chested it the other side then another city player might have got to it. If in doubt put it in row z. Nice to play football in the opponents half....not outside and around your own penalty area. Mings isnt good enough to do it anyway.
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Which other City player? Look at it back, not a chance that happens if he goes left.
 
ldgavfc said:
If he had cleared it, he would have given possession back to Man City for absolutely no reason. The nearest onside Man City player was 20 yards ahead of him, he had time to chest it down and think about a pass, try and keep some possession and build an attack from the back as we have done all season.

There's no need to find fault in our players for a clear and obvious refereeing fuck up. If Mings kicked that ball out of play after chesting it down with no Man City players around him I would have been screaming at my TV.
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I am not finding fault in a player for a clear ref mistake The ref didn't make a mistake according to the rules and Mings faths about.

It is a different opinion, but not 'finding fault'. That is quite insulting. But there is a cult of Mings I realise, I'll go with what experience like Rio Ferdinand says, you clear that sort of issue.
 
garygaryshaw said:
But why clear it and give the ball back to Man City when they already have us under pressure. He was trying to retain the ball and more than likely would have knocked it back to Martinez to let us re-set. He has gained an advantage by standing 15 yards offside.
The video of Ronaldo being flagged offside on the same night in the same situation says it all for me. He knew as soon as he flicked it away from the defender it was a free kick.
Whenever that has happened previously its always been called offside and nobody has ever argued the case.
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Because there was a player behind him, did he think that player was just going to stand still and wait for him to do his little bits and bobs, then run back onside?
 
The Fear said:
I am not finding fault in a player for a clear ref mistake The ref didn't make a mistake according to the rules and Mings faths about.

It is a different opinion, but not 'finding fault'. That is quite insulting. But there is a cult of Mings I realise, I'll go with what experience like Rio Ferdinand says, you clear that sort of issue.
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I'm glad you're insulted Jonathon. How DARE you question Mings?
 
The Fear said:
Because there was a player behind him, did he think that player was just going to stand still and wait for him to do his little bits and bobs, then run back onside?
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Well as mentioned, we all thought he would get the offside decision when it happened. Only Tyrone knows what he was really thinking. But look at the Ronaldo video from the same night - we've seen that happen many times before with the same outcome. The Mings incident is the first time I can ever remember seeing a player get away with it.
Not saying he doesnt make mistakes, he does. Just dont think he was at fault on this one
 
mike_field said:
I think I see what you are saying I just don't agree. The fact he's in position for the second touch shows he was offside, involved and active on the first touch. He stops Mings from playing the ball/controlling the ball/having the ball under control - whatever preferred phrase. So his simple body closeness makes him active irrespective of first or second touch argument.

So it's offside for me as you don't receive a ball you are challenging for - had Mings properly chested it to him, that would be different. But bringing down in his general direction, by the rule Rodri should still not have got involved.

It's lifted from the FA website - which part am I missing or do you think I'm misinterpreting?

Offside offence

A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:

interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
interfering with an opponent by:

preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or (he's in position at the chest)
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or (same again, moving to Mings impacts the opponent)
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball (as above)

*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used

Genuine question as I plan on doing an FP ramble about this, so if there's an argument I'm blind to here owing to anger I want to see it lol
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I'll give it a go, though you seem pretty locked in on your view! I'll mention again, I am in the offside camp, this is just how the interpretation has occurred I think. So, I would work through the law, line by line:

IFAB Laws of the Game 2020-21
Law 11 Offside

Offside position
It is not an offence to be in an offside position.

A player is in an offside position if:
  • any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
  • any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
  • The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered.
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
  • second-last opponent or
  • last two opponents
Clearly then he was in an offside position, but that's not punishable. The key is to identify if there is an offence?

Offside offence
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
The touch is not by a team-mate but by an opponent so the following bullet points now become obsolete.
  • interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by a team-mate or
  • interfering with an opponent by:
  • preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
  • challenging an opponent for the ball or
  • clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
  • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used
or
  • gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has: This is where the door of opportunity arises as it relates to an opponent (eg. Mings)
  • rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar or an opponent Didn't occur in this scenario
  • been deliberately saved by any opponent Didn't occur in this scenario
  • A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent. Key section here is "deliberately plays the ball", there can be no argument that Mings did this as he decides to chest (rather than head) and then attempt to pass. Rodri "receives" (or blocks) the ball in this manner, which is written as not advantageous.
A ‘save’ is when a player stops, or attempts to stop, a ball which is going into or very close to the goal with any part of the body except the hands/arms (unless the goalkeeper within the penalty area).

In situations where:
  • a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball; if the player moves into the way of an opponent and impedes the opponent's progress (e.g blocks the opponent) the offence should be penalised under Law 12
  • a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence
  • an offence is committed against a player in an offside position who is already playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the offside offence is penalised as it has occurred before the foul challenge
All of these relate to a foul, in this case on either Mings or Rodri. There's no foul either way so is redundant.

No offence
There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
  • a goal kick
  • a throw-in
  • a corner kick
Not relevant in this scenario.
 
Hifriedelity said:
I’m still stuck on this. As mentioned in this forum isn’t the phrase “receiving the ball” the critical phrase. It’s presumably written in the laws to be different from “getting the ball”. And yet no talking heads are commenting on this.
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Been watching the replays, again. I think this is the point. Rodri used his offside position to rob Mings of the ball, hence gaining an advantage. The ball didn't just arrive at his feet, or anything like.
 
It's new tactical position to play
Stay behind the defenders on their blindside to block a backpass to the keeper and to creep up on them and tackle from behind
It should end the era of defenders playing the ball around amongst themselves as there will be a guy behind them that they cannot see waiting to pounce
 
distefano said:
It's new tactical position to play
Stay behind the defenders on their blindside to block a backpass to the keeper and to creep up on them and tackle from behind
It should end the era of defenders playing the ball around amongst themselves as there will be a guy behind them that they cannot see waiting to pounce
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Yep stand 5 yards offside, wait for them to touch then ball then rob them, I bet flag goes up
 
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