Jose stay or Jose go?
- Thread starter sjm1985
- Start date
D
Departed
Guest
Not sure what to answer. You'd have to give me a plan to move forward before I agreed to anything. If we fry another manager we will have a tough time getting a good one.
I would never work for Levy. How could you convince anyone seriously competent to manage us? JM is here because he was compromised. Like most of the players we have bought.
I would never work for Levy. How could you convince anyone seriously competent to manage us? JM is here because he was compromised. Like most of the players we have bought.
stupops
Vital 1st Team Regular
I'd keep him for now.
The players have been given everything to succeed here in winning a trophy or two in the next 18 months.
Best training facilities you can get.
Best stadium in the world.
Magager who has a formula (that might not be pretty or popular)
And their own egos have fcuked it up.
Spursy to the end.
If they are all so great let's see who they land up playing for after their big money moves.
Barring Son, Kane and Hugo it will be mid table teams at best.
Let's be honest, if Robbie Keane couldn't cut it at Liverpool what chance has the likes of Deli, Winks, Dier etc got?
Not saying Jose is a managerial genius - but our players are flakes.
The players have been given everything to succeed here in winning a trophy or two in the next 18 months.
Best training facilities you can get.
Best stadium in the world.
Magager who has a formula (that might not be pretty or popular)
And their own egos have fcuked it up.
Spursy to the end.
If they are all so great let's see who they land up playing for after their big money moves.
Barring Son, Kane and Hugo it will be mid table teams at best.
Let's be honest, if Robbie Keane couldn't cut it at Liverpool what chance has the likes of Deli, Winks, Dier etc got?
Not saying Jose is a managerial genius - but our players are flakes.
The only point in Jose being here is to win things. However we have been put out of 2 cup competitions in dreadful fashion and have been dreadful for months in the league. We come to life for the odd spell here and there but that is it.
Jose isn't a manager who's going to build long term success. He was a short term fix by Levy to try and get a trophy given the potentially strong squad we had left over from the Poch years.
If he's not going to deliver a long term vision and he's incapable of short term success then why not sacrifice the last few months of the season in giving a new manager the chance to get used to things.
Having said all that, I doubt we can afford to pay another manager on top of paying off Jose so we will be stuck with him until fans are back in the stadium and concerts are back for a few months.
All we can do is hope that he pulls the rabbit out of the hat in the final against City - His reputation needs it.
Jose isn't a manager who's going to build long term success. He was a short term fix by Levy to try and get a trophy given the potentially strong squad we had left over from the Poch years.
If he's not going to deliver a long term vision and he's incapable of short term success then why not sacrifice the last few months of the season in giving a new manager the chance to get used to things.
Having said all that, I doubt we can afford to pay another manager on top of paying off Jose so we will be stuck with him until fans are back in the stadium and concerts are back for a few months.
All we can do is hope that he pulls the rabbit out of the hat in the final against City - His reputation needs it.
total spurs
Predictor Champion 2022/23
My first instinct is for him to go...but I will see what team he picks v Villa. IF he truly wants to try and get into top 4/5/6 then I am expecting a team that doesn't have Dire, Davies, Winks or Sissoko in it. If they play then imo it means he is just trying not to lose....equally it means he has no frigging idea how bad Winks & Sissoko m/f axis is for the teams attacking intent.
For me this is where he shows everyone (or doesn't) that he still has the winning formula, motivation, tactics & can galvanise a team spirit....if only till the end of the season.
A team needs different type of players, take Bale, he isn't going to chase back and make last ditch sliding tackles that save the day....but then how many of the team can see & make the passes that he can.
I remember someone (maybe Clough) saying about Hoddle many moons ago...words to the effect of 'he gets criticised for not running thru brick walls, but the other players don't get criticised for not being able to bend a ball round them'
The 5 games we won before the NLD bale was pretty much the hub of our attacking intent....that's how we need to use him....get Reggie and Tanganga down the channels....Gio/Ndom/Holjberg in the middle and go for whoever we play.... Make attack the best form of defence
As for Harry if and when he isn't fit....he needs to not play or at least not start.......
For me the team Jose picks Sunday will show exactly what his thoughts for the season and players are...
For me this is where he shows everyone (or doesn't) that he still has the winning formula, motivation, tactics & can galvanise a team spirit....if only till the end of the season.
A team needs different type of players, take Bale, he isn't going to chase back and make last ditch sliding tackles that save the day....but then how many of the team can see & make the passes that he can.
I remember someone (maybe Clough) saying about Hoddle many moons ago...words to the effect of 'he gets criticised for not running thru brick walls, but the other players don't get criticised for not being able to bend a ball round them'
The 5 games we won before the NLD bale was pretty much the hub of our attacking intent....that's how we need to use him....get Reggie and Tanganga down the channels....Gio/Ndom/Holjberg in the middle and go for whoever we play.... Make attack the best form of defence
As for Harry if and when he isn't fit....he needs to not play or at least not start.......
For me the team Jose picks Sunday will show exactly what his thoughts for the season and players are...
freundorfoe
Vital 1st Team Regular
We’re a bad fit for Jose, particularly when cash strapped from the pandemic. He has a one size fits all approach that requires a lot of cash to burn through players til he finds the ones that fit his singular mentality requirement. He won’t adapt to what’s available, he expects a chairman to back him even if the wider footballing world thinks he’s got it wrong on a player.
I also think he’s lost his edge.
I think a positive attitude and belief from a manager could see our form turn enough to be in with a shot of top 4. I hope Levy takes that gamble as if successful will more than cover Jose compo
I also think he’s lost his edge.
I think a positive attitude and belief from a manager could see our form turn enough to be in with a shot of top 4. I hope Levy takes that gamble as if successful will more than cover Jose compo
steveperryman
Vital Football Legend
You see i don't believe another coach will change anything for the long term. If anything the players have proven they'll stick the knife in come what may. Poch, Jose, Bill & effing Ted, it doesn't matter one jot who we get in, they'll all be answering to the same man... Daniel Levy. His project is now in tatters & i just don't envisage a quick fix.
For the long term we could go youth again but isn't that what our famed academy was built for?
SheringhamNo10
Vital Squad Member
Whether Jose goes now or in the summer, I feel it’s now inevitable. If fans were in attendance every week I don’t think he would have lasted this long.
The way I fell right now though, there is a massive opportunity for us next season.
If I’m Levy I’d be finding out what Kane and Son want to do, are they committed to the cause or do they both want out?
If they both want pastures new (personally I don’t blame them, at their age and potential opportunities). Then start lining up a deal now and get them done early doors. Please don’t drag them out all summer!
Then whoever is coming in to replace Jose, give them the funds to rebuild the squad in their own mould.
Personally, I’d take a gamble on Scott Parker before Naglesman but that’s just me.
The way I fell right now though, there is a massive opportunity for us next season.
If I’m Levy I’d be finding out what Kane and Son want to do, are they committed to the cause or do they both want out?
If they both want pastures new (personally I don’t blame them, at their age and potential opportunities). Then start lining up a deal now and get them done early doors. Please don’t drag them out all summer!
Then whoever is coming in to replace Jose, give them the funds to rebuild the squad in their own mould.
Personally, I’d take a gamble on Scott Parker before Naglesman but that’s just me.
Matic
Alert Team
This is, by far, going to be the hardest problem to solve for Levy. The thoughts behind hiring Mourinho were that, on paper, he would be an ideal choice to deliver some kind of silverware. His record is up there with the best and Levy has, for a longtime, wanted to team up with him.
In reality, everyone that understands the game saw it as a very odd decision based on how he operates and his recent turmoils at Man Utd. It's ironic that Levy doesn't take risks but somehow didn't see how much of a risk Jose was.
I'd be amazed if he sacked him at the momrnt. Jose is surviving on that cup final and if we lose that and fail to get top 4, the pressure on Levy will be too great and he will have to give way and get rid.
However, IF the internal problems are with players refusing to follow Jose's instructions then those issues need addressing also. Jose being sacked would have to trigger a hard reset at the club and some very smart strategies put in place for making sure we get back to progressing.
In reality, everyone that understands the game saw it as a very odd decision based on how he operates and his recent turmoils at Man Utd. It's ironic that Levy doesn't take risks but somehow didn't see how much of a risk Jose was.
I'd be amazed if he sacked him at the momrnt. Jose is surviving on that cup final and if we lose that and fail to get top 4, the pressure on Levy will be too great and he will have to give way and get rid.
However, IF the internal problems are with players refusing to follow Jose's instructions then those issues need addressing also. Jose being sacked would have to trigger a hard reset at the club and some very smart strategies put in place for making sure we get back to progressing.
There's alot at stake for the players as well let's not forget. If a top player has a difficult season, due primarily to the complete incompetence of his manager, that can be costly in soooo many ways. You have to think, that if a top player saw what was happening, and felt it would inflict serious damage to his playing career to subject himself to the fiasco, well they'd maybe have some extra niggling injuries that seem oddly chronic. Just sayin, and I know y'all can't actually beleive it, but this does in fact happen.
.
.
There are a lot of interesting, and surprisingly differing opinions so far on here .
The one I am drawn most to , the closest to how I feel , is Totals .
I’ve said on here , on different threads ,that it is patently clear that the Dier /Sanchez combo doesn’t work .
Davies at left back invites the opposition to attack down their right .,We have no-one in front of Davies that tracks back to cover . At right back we have a nightmare scenario , with Bale ( now ) in front of whoever plays . It used to be Sissoko .
The whole defensive situation has been a joke all season . Mourhino has managed it appallingly.
The Rodon signing is another kettle of fish . Mourhino was adamant , apparently , that we needed a centre back in the last window , not Bale .
He was given an unfit , untrustworthy , very expensive player he didn’t want . ......and a fit , inexperienced and cheap player in the position he wanted cover for .
I can cut him some slack there .
He has failed , as Poch did , before him , to solve the Harry Kane problem .
When Kane was in his early twenties , it was perhaps excusable to play him forty five times a season . ... it is not any more .
He has failed the Kane problem . Maybe that’s his fault , maybe that is down to Kane .
The Midfield ,...... defensively, PEH has been a successful addition . But that is it .
We are stuck , still , with Sissoko, and Winks , ..... the rest , Berg ,, two Argentinians , Dele , Ndombele , Bale Moura and Son , is
in my opinion , where he has failed the most .
So much talent that he has stifled the life out of .
I don’t think that for one moment , any player goes out to play badly. The same with a collective , I don’t believe a group of players get together and decide to play not to win , not to score goals , not to make the runs , or play the passes .
I just cannot see that happening .
I do understand that a manager can “ lose the dressing room”, but does that stop a cohesive defensive line or a mesmerising attacking force .
I didn’t want Mourhino here in the first place . I was dismayed when it was announced , I’ve tried to be convinced that it was a good move .
It’s been , what has been a joke statement , a rollercoaster ride !
We have had static left full backs and attacking right full backs , with two experienced centre backs in tandem.
That got dumped in favour of two attacking wing backs .
A midfield player that got put back into the back line , centre backs that did not , and still don’t , know how to play together . ( unless he plays Sanchez and Toby )
We have a midfield that are expected not to attack , but none of them are defenders .
We have evolved to rely on counter attacking that is so so easy to defend against .
We have run the players that do the counter attacks into the ground.
In my honest opinion he has made a complete mess of the season .
He has a squad that has fantastic qualities but not for the way he wants to play , yet he decides to keep playing in the same tactical
formation .
He has some great coaches behind him , that are coming up against brick walls .
He has been lucky Hugo hasn’t had a serious injury .
I think we will limp through now , lose the cup final heavily , the players will be criticised time and time again , end up around tenth and he will have to go .
No matter how I look at it , we have a good squad , being managed badly , very badly , by someone that is hanging on by his dwindling reputation.
He has to go , the only question is when.
The one I am drawn most to , the closest to how I feel , is Totals .
I’ve said on here , on different threads ,that it is patently clear that the Dier /Sanchez combo doesn’t work .
Davies at left back invites the opposition to attack down their right .,We have no-one in front of Davies that tracks back to cover . At right back we have a nightmare scenario , with Bale ( now ) in front of whoever plays . It used to be Sissoko .
The whole defensive situation has been a joke all season . Mourhino has managed it appallingly.
The Rodon signing is another kettle of fish . Mourhino was adamant , apparently , that we needed a centre back in the last window , not Bale .
He was given an unfit , untrustworthy , very expensive player he didn’t want . ......and a fit , inexperienced and cheap player in the position he wanted cover for .
I can cut him some slack there .
He has failed , as Poch did , before him , to solve the Harry Kane problem .
When Kane was in his early twenties , it was perhaps excusable to play him forty five times a season . ... it is not any more .
He has failed the Kane problem . Maybe that’s his fault , maybe that is down to Kane .
The Midfield ,...... defensively, PEH has been a successful addition . But that is it .
We are stuck , still , with Sissoko, and Winks , ..... the rest , Berg ,, two Argentinians , Dele , Ndombele , Bale Moura and Son , is
in my opinion , where he has failed the most .
So much talent that he has stifled the life out of .
I don’t think that for one moment , any player goes out to play badly. The same with a collective , I don’t believe a group of players get together and decide to play not to win , not to score goals , not to make the runs , or play the passes .
I just cannot see that happening .
I do understand that a manager can “ lose the dressing room”, but does that stop a cohesive defensive line or a mesmerising attacking force .
I didn’t want Mourhino here in the first place . I was dismayed when it was announced , I’ve tried to be convinced that it was a good move .
It’s been , what has been a joke statement , a rollercoaster ride !
We have had static left full backs and attacking right full backs , with two experienced centre backs in tandem.
That got dumped in favour of two attacking wing backs .
A midfield player that got put back into the back line , centre backs that did not , and still don’t , know how to play together . ( unless he plays Sanchez and Toby )
We have a midfield that are expected not to attack , but none of them are defenders .
We have evolved to rely on counter attacking that is so so easy to defend against .
We have run the players that do the counter attacks into the ground.
In my honest opinion he has made a complete mess of the season .
He has a squad that has fantastic qualities but not for the way he wants to play , yet he decides to keep playing in the same tactical
formation .
He has some great coaches behind him , that are coming up against brick walls .
He has been lucky Hugo hasn’t had a serious injury .
I think we will limp through now , lose the cup final heavily , the players will be criticised time and time again , end up around tenth and he will have to go .
No matter how I look at it , we have a good squad , being managed badly , very badly , by someone that is hanging on by his dwindling reputation.
He has to go , the only question is when.
Greavswasthegreatest
Vital Football Legend
Good summary in the main Walthy.....I would add that ...
Even when we were top of the league not many of us on here enjoyed our slow tippy tappy style of football, winning only by deep defending with the odd breakaway getting us the win.
An approach not sustainable as % wise we crreate less chances so it was a matter of time before the break aways dried up and we have no plan B, and the other clubs sussed us out and countered that approach, so the wheels started to come off.
In Jose's defence we do have a lot of 'not fit for purpose players' in our squad. We have brilliance and dross combinred, and the brilliant players cannot do it on their own time and time again..
Cup final or not depending on what happens tomorrow at Villa my view is that we will not evolve and get out of this dire mess with a cimbination of
a)Jose and
b) Our squad.
Change is essential to start again.
We cannoit sack/sell 8-10 playes overnight so Jose rightly or wrongly, depending on your dstance, has to be the sacrificial lamb NOW to save our beloved club.
Get a young up and coming experienced manager in asap so he can work with the players and assess the situaion over the rest of this season and the summer so we can prepare for a new order ...sell the dross and try to buy replacements with desire, drive, entusiasm and grit. A new face may well inject desire into the team in time to put in a performance v City in the cup final which would be a bonus but not expected by anyone on here!
I would look no further than the likes of Scott Parker ex spurs, Fulham playing good football but destined to be relegated due to their dire start to the season.
He is young full of ideas but lacking the resources at Fulham that we have.
And I like the style of play they try to adopt.
Thats my take on this nightmare.
Even when we were top of the league not many of us on here enjoyed our slow tippy tappy style of football, winning only by deep defending with the odd breakaway getting us the win.
An approach not sustainable as % wise we crreate less chances so it was a matter of time before the break aways dried up and we have no plan B, and the other clubs sussed us out and countered that approach, so the wheels started to come off.
In Jose's defence we do have a lot of 'not fit for purpose players' in our squad. We have brilliance and dross combinred, and the brilliant players cannot do it on their own time and time again..
Cup final or not depending on what happens tomorrow at Villa my view is that we will not evolve and get out of this dire mess with a cimbination of
a)Jose and
b) Our squad.
Change is essential to start again.
We cannoit sack/sell 8-10 playes overnight so Jose rightly or wrongly, depending on your dstance, has to be the sacrificial lamb NOW to save our beloved club.
Get a young up and coming experienced manager in asap so he can work with the players and assess the situaion over the rest of this season and the summer so we can prepare for a new order ...sell the dross and try to buy replacements with desire, drive, entusiasm and grit. A new face may well inject desire into the team in time to put in a performance v City in the cup final which would be a bonus but not expected by anyone on here!
I would look no further than the likes of Scott Parker ex spurs, Fulham playing good football but destined to be relegated due to their dire start to the season.
He is young full of ideas but lacking the resources at Fulham that we have.
And I like the style of play they try to adopt.
Thats my take on this nightmare.
Last edited:
Spursex
Alert Team
I detest the man and his management style; that is why we are in this huge mess. There are no other reasons, he asked for the players he wanted to push us up and onwards after what in fairness to him was a great unexpected (for many) resurgence last season.
He passed over what I thought were far better choices, but Jose got what he wanted and we've gone backwards.
I'm mindful of what I know about his training sessions and how he was forced to defend his methods, but as always he went over the top and declared himself a 'great' coach.
I'm not going to go over again why I think he's so abysmally failed, but for me he is a dinosaur and he isn't going to change now.
Contrary to ALL my instincts and now having slept on it (alot lol!), I'd keep him until the season is over just because he might now address internally that he shied away from before, he might take a mirror to himself and question what his role was in the divisions in the squad/club and might decide he has something to prove and might just beat ManC in the final and miracle of miracles perhaps he can get them fighting for the club/him again if he now says and does the right things.
An observation from me:
Despite all and sundry pilloring Dier and Winks for their passion and effort, they were the only one's remonstrating with the rest of the team for a lack of effort, Winks was literally exacerbated nn less than 3 occasions where he was begging for the forwards to give him some forward options - but they were all literally static. And Dier, if he could have would have killed Aurier.
Anyway, as much as I think Jose is a self-absorbed c***t - I want wants best for the club, and for now I think that's him staying until the end of the season, I hope I don't live to regret changing my mind.
He passed over what I thought were far better choices, but Jose got what he wanted and we've gone backwards.
I'm mindful of what I know about his training sessions and how he was forced to defend his methods, but as always he went over the top and declared himself a 'great' coach.
I'm not going to go over again why I think he's so abysmally failed, but for me he is a dinosaur and he isn't going to change now.
Contrary to ALL my instincts and now having slept on it (alot lol!), I'd keep him until the season is over just because he might now address internally that he shied away from before, he might take a mirror to himself and question what his role was in the divisions in the squad/club and might decide he has something to prove and might just beat ManC in the final and miracle of miracles perhaps he can get them fighting for the club/him again if he now says and does the right things.
An observation from me:
Despite all and sundry pilloring Dier and Winks for their passion and effort, they were the only one's remonstrating with the rest of the team for a lack of effort, Winks was literally exacerbated nn less than 3 occasions where he was begging for the forwards to give him some forward options - but they were all literally static. And Dier, if he could have would have killed Aurier.
Anyway, as much as I think Jose is a self-absorbed c***t - I want wants best for the club, and for now I think that's him staying until the end of the season, I hope I don't live to regret changing my mind.
Spursex
Alert Team
It's an interesting view, as I've said before when a boss creates a toxic atmosphere and drives division and you know that one day it's one player he'll publically chuck under his bus and the next day another - it's hard if not impossible to give your best.
All Jose had to do was be like other managers and deal with it behind closed doors, and step up and take a greater responsibility for the tactical failings.
So in my mind, it matters very much who the next manager will be, because what now do know is this one is a very bad fit indeed.
steveperryman
Vital Football Legend
Hiring him was a gamble, a calculated one at that. With that in mind i'd like to think Daniel has a plan B. Thing is i'm not sure he has. He's played his cards & now we're stuck in limbo.
Pompey Yid
Vital Champions League
Afraid I do not agree with you there 80, JM has used us, out for a number of months, almost the forgotten man, gets offered £15m a year wages at a Club he once said "I will never manage/boss" plus whatever happens he has his name in the media every day, good or bad, all is publicity for him, which ever way you look at it. Just my thoughts mate.
steveperryman
Vital Football Legend
Something else to note. We aren't Chelsea, not even close. They can achieve change by changing the head coach because of their business model, hoovering up all the best young & upcoming players. Wait till you see them in another year or two, they'll be unstoppable. We stopped doing that for one reason or another & we're not developing them at the academy either. Poch was the man who was famed for his work with the youngsters. Looks like he was a fraud.
Pompey Yid
Vital Champions League
No matter what we all write, and there are very good points, pro or anti, I have said it before.....I believe our players are caught between a "Rock and a Hard place", dammed if they do, dammed if the don't, simple.
steveperryman
Vital Football Legend
The players are living the dream. They're playing in the best city & the best league in the world. They've got the best training complex & one of the best stadiums in the country. They're on good wages, incredible wages really when compared to their lowly league position. A great fan base which has been so tolerant with their lack of success. What do we receive in return. Abject failure. Why wouldn't they want to stick around lol.
steveperryman
Vital Football Legend
What's at stake for them? You should just say the easy life, for being rewarded for mediocrity.
Top players! What have they won? In fact what has this club won over the last 30 years?
Last edited:
