Jim Wells - the pride of Northern Irish politics
- Thread starter Galvin's Shinpads
- Start date
Galvin's Shinpads
Vital Football Legend
Well you're quite right about one not existing without the other but I don't feel there is a need to throwback to a history lesson in this case.
The DUP are the hardline nonsense that Northern Ireland does not need. The UUP (for all their huffing and puffing) at least can conduct themselves with a modicum of more dignity than those bigoted apes.
And believe me, it's not a small price to pay at all. The DUP are heavily connected to the paramilitary groups like the UDF and UVF.
Also, murderous bastards.
So Ex, the Conservative Party are really just siding with another gang of deviants. To be honest, it looks more likely that Labour will possibly get the votes now.
As tight as the election will be, there should be no place for DUP in any government.
Spursex
Alert Team
I wish I could get exercised about this, but I can't. I think there is a much bigger issue at stake. Should labour get in it will only be at our expense and a dirty deal (formal or otherwise) with the Nationalists. As you might have guessed I don't like the Nationalists.
You can call the DUP all the names you want, but it's pointless; in time, like others they'll change, but as you and I both know change comes very painfully slow in the Isle of Ireland. I remember meeting some of the most fearsome 'leaders' of the nationalists in Belfast in 'neutral' ground just outside the airport, and even all those years ago long before the peace process became public they were bemoaning how their 'boys' would never let them bring about the peace they knew was inevitable.
In short, there are times when for the greater good you have to make sacrifices, and this is one of those times.
labour by inclination are a spend and tax party, they can't stop themselves, it's how they've always behaved - the difference this time is that our national debt is such that if we deviate from our plan to try and bring it under control (and it is much bigger issue than just bringing down the deficit), they could easily put us into the same position as Greece.
We had to devalue once before under labour and this time around it would make the consequences of an event like that look like a kiddies picnic.
It's such a shame that ALL parties haven't had the guts to really tell people the truth of the precarious position we're really in and how long it really is going to take to get out of it - all we're doing is that we're hitting our children and our children's futures and asking them to pay all the debts and the social costs for us for the next two generations.
It disgusts me.
Galvin's Shinpads
Vital Football Legend
The DUP should disgust you!
They never have and never will change.
They are bigots and racists, with members who participated in the Loyalist paramilitaries.
(They even burned effigies of Margaret Thatcher, back when she was in office. Meanwhile idiots like Wells and Paisley stood on the back of lorries, laughing at the proceedings!)
You mean to tell me that you met leaders of the IRA beside Belfast airport, before the troubles???
Galvin's Shinpads
Vital Football Legend
There is no proof that they will change. They are living in a bitter world, surrounded by deeply troubled souls. Thankfully, there are signs that they are dying out ever so slowly. The fact that the center of Belfast city is seeing DUP supporters ever moving to the suburbs is also a good thing. They can keep their deep-rooted hatred of everything Irish within their own area, without having to disgust any tourists.
And honestly Ex, calling the DUP what they are, is certainly not pointless.
They are thugs, bullies and hatemongers. Their views are so twisted, that they now don't really know what they stand for anymore.
Oh, that's right, William of Orange... as they like to dredge up now and again!
An awful faction of society to bring any children into.
Spursex
Alert Team
Gav,
you know as well as I do that divisions run deep, prejudice and fractional hatred exists on both/all sides. Suspicion of another sides views/actions in this situation runs deep, trust on many levels simply doesn't exist -when any community/society feels like it's under siege or being abandoned it will circle the wagons - and that's what the fractions do.
You said: "Thankfully, there are signs that they are dying out ever so slowly..."
That's a more direct way of saying what I said, so we agree.
There are no rights or wrongs here, it just is what it is, and you bring about change by making slow incremental changes over a long period of time. One day, perhaps 100 years from now, they'll all live together and look back at the troubles with utter disbelief - but until then seeking out and extenuating those things that make each side different just won't help.
Sadly, and I'll never understand why there are those on both side who will only be happy when they're killing and maiming and even hurting their own.
you know as well as I do that divisions run deep, prejudice and fractional hatred exists on both/all sides. Suspicion of another sides views/actions in this situation runs deep, trust on many levels simply doesn't exist -when any community/society feels like it's under siege or being abandoned it will circle the wagons - and that's what the fractions do.
You said: "Thankfully, there are signs that they are dying out ever so slowly..."
That's a more direct way of saying what I said, so we agree.
There are no rights or wrongs here, it just is what it is, and you bring about change by making slow incremental changes over a long period of time. One day, perhaps 100 years from now, they'll all live together and look back at the troubles with utter disbelief - but until then seeking out and extenuating those things that make each side different just won't help.
Sadly, and I'll never understand why there are those on both side who will only be happy when they're killing and maiming and even hurting their own.
Galvin's Shinpads
Vital Football Legend
When a member of Ministerial Office declares something of such stupidity, of which Jim Wells has just blurted, must be commented on.
There are so many wrongs on both sides, it must be stated.
Otherwise the cretins would get away with it.
And I don't think anyone will look back on 'the troubles' in disbelief. It's quite clear why they came about.
The utter negligence and imperialism of the British forces in Northern Ireland, provoked Irish Nationals into revolutionary ideals.
Since then, it sure did get totally out of hand, with renegades on both sides of the conflict not taking responsibility for the loss of innocent life.
But I digress. Would you not agree that Jim Wells is just a bit of an idiot?? For saying what he has?
Spursex
Alert Team
It isn't stupid if he has convinced himself he has evidence to support his views., and out there in the ether what's clear is that it all depends on which reports/studies you read and what you take from them.
When the history is written, they'll wonder why the majority in the North allowed the situation to develop the way it did and why the minority became so murderous and devoid of any humanity.
And finally, what politicians say to their constituents never surprises me anymore so few of then tell the truth, as I said, he seemingly thinks the evidence is overwhelming - having now had a little time to read selective studies I'd say it's certainly a debate that hasn't and probably never will be conclusively proved or disproved - but then whenever did an Irish politician of either persuasion let a little think like context get the way?
Sorry Gav, but I've dealt with both sides and I well recall how all the ultra nationalists were dead against abortion and how they went on about it lowering the moral standards of the young - and then threatening to kill/maim just about anyone who supported it.
Galvin's Shinpads
Vital Football Legend
The church and it's teachings has a lot to answer for. Catholicism and it's anti-abortion rules, eh!
So you still don't think Jim Wells was totally out of line to say what he said??
Spursex
Alert Team
Afraid I don't Gav; if it's what he believes in and it's not just lip service to play to his constituency, I understand why he said it, I simply don't have enough information to agree or disagree with what he said.
This may have passed you by, but on the mainland for the last 10 years the problem of Asian Islamic gangs (across at least two dozen places across the country and involving hundreds of them, most of them recent migrants) of grooming young girls for sex and the sex slave trade was known of by the local authorities, the police and even the politicians, but they suppressed all the evidence for fear of being labelled 'racists' and 'bigots' - as everytime the slightest mention of their origin and their faith was mentioned the shutters were ordered down and everything was swept under the carpet - until recently of course where the political climate has changed and the whole seedy truth has come rampaging out...hundreds of young girls lives lost to the most vile practices and abuse.
As I now read some of this stuff, I can't help but feel there is a stench of hypocrisy about all of this - and he may well have said something that upsets the establishment, but which at a later date (just like all child abuse stories now emerging by homosexuals back in the 60's/70's and 80's and even the 90's) will be taken far more seriously.
Given the nature of the subject, I'd greatly prefer some serious research into the area to see what (if any) connection there truly is and if their is one so that we can consider ways to protect societies children from these types of exploitation in the future.
So, having come to this subject with no knowledge of it, I'd have to say the idiots here will be the ones who want it all swept under the carpet again.
Ireland has had one big lesson on this after the abuses and parties of the catholic church were exposed and it might do well to heed them.
This may have passed you by, but on the mainland for the last 10 years the problem of Asian Islamic gangs (across at least two dozen places across the country and involving hundreds of them, most of them recent migrants) of grooming young girls for sex and the sex slave trade was known of by the local authorities, the police and even the politicians, but they suppressed all the evidence for fear of being labelled 'racists' and 'bigots' - as everytime the slightest mention of their origin and their faith was mentioned the shutters were ordered down and everything was swept under the carpet - until recently of course where the political climate has changed and the whole seedy truth has come rampaging out...hundreds of young girls lives lost to the most vile practices and abuse.
As I now read some of this stuff, I can't help but feel there is a stench of hypocrisy about all of this - and he may well have said something that upsets the establishment, but which at a later date (just like all child abuse stories now emerging by homosexuals back in the 60's/70's and 80's and even the 90's) will be taken far more seriously.
Given the nature of the subject, I'd greatly prefer some serious research into the area to see what (if any) connection there truly is and if their is one so that we can consider ways to protect societies children from these types of exploitation in the future.
So, having come to this subject with no knowledge of it, I'd have to say the idiots here will be the ones who want it all swept under the carpet again.
Ireland has had one big lesson on this after the abuses and parties of the catholic church were exposed and it might do well to heed them.
Galvin's Shinpads
Vital Football Legend
Ex, this is about Marriage Equality. NOT sex slaves and sexual abusers in the church.
This is about human rights. NOT a bigoted political party member making some grand statement. When asked, he couldn't even disclose any "facts" or "statistics".
He simply has a terrible view of homosexuality and it has creeped into his opinions on marriage.
So I must declare, in my own humble opinion, that indeed he has made a terribly irresponsible statement. With nothing to back it up, except his feelings.
I, for one, hope the 'Yes' vote is passed.
