Is a National Care Service Desirable / Possible? | Vital Football

Is a National Care Service Desirable / Possible?

Trev_GFC

Vital Squad Member
#1
Obviously in these times we’re struggling to fund the NHS to an acceptable operational standard. However, is it desirable and possible to create a National Care Service once CoVid and the resulting depression blows over?

A care service encompassing care homes, mental health services etc. Increase National Insurance by a reasonable amount.
 

wxgill

Vital Squad Member
#2
Care homes make an absolute fortune. I had a relative living in one (not nursing) and she was billed £650 a week.

My idea is close ALL care homes and open larger care places (like the Navy one near Gillingham Park).

This way be bill to society is less, the bill to the person is less and greedy private care homes stop making profits of £350,000 per year (one near me is doing this annually). The taxpayer is paying for the majority of that £350k.

This would make sure all staff are payed slightly better and short-cuts are stopped.

Great idea Tev.
 

shotshy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#3
Interesting one Trev !

My brother and I were discussing this very subject yesterday.
He is a solicitor and does a fair bit of pro bono for citizens advice.
He said that it's a subject that comes up often in enquiries.

As we all know, anyone with quite minimal assets are expected to finance their own care package within a care home.
Anyone with a property is either expected to sell it for finance care or alternatively, the county council will put a charge against the property i.e. they run up a bill.
That is obviously after all the cash is gone.

So, it really does beg the question, should residential care be included in the NHS ?
 

GillsBluenose

Vital 1st Team Regular
#4
Sounds like a good idea, but doubt it is affordable.

I don't like the way that Hospitals discharge vulnerable people who may no longer require that level of care, but there is no joined up system with social services and care homes for them to take over. Nothing has ever taken over from the old Convalescent homes.

Also, so many critical services that link with the NHS rely on charity - Macmillan/Marie Curie nurses, Air Ambulances and hospices.

Many of those that are unfortunate enough to need these services will have earned enough in the past to have put something aside for these eventualities but there has been no national plan to pay in to. I think it would require an amount to be added to NI that some would find unpalatable when life goes back to something like normal.
 

shotshy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#5
As we age, it's a bit of a lottery on what disease we get.

My Mum got cancer and had the best treatment that you can imagine, free at the point of service.
My Mother in law got dementia and has paid a fortune for her care and treatment and will continue to do so until the money runs out.
Then, the care home owner said she could not guarantee that MiL could stay in the same care home if the CC won't finance that amount.
The cheeky mare even suggested that we may want to top any shortfall.
Fine, I replied, then who will pay for ours, should we need it?

My recommendation is, get a physical illness, not a mental one.

Wierdly, a younger person gets a mental illness and needs residential care, the state pays
An old person gets the same and they are expected to finance it themselves.
 

GRSGimmer

Vital Squad Member
#6
Nope, years ago it would have been, but as wxgill states, care for us old gits is a way to make big bucks. When eventually I get carted off to some senile old gimmers man cave they won't get much - after all who wants an Anglia and a prefab in this day and age?
 
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RotherhitheGill

Vital Squad Member
#7
wxgill - I know care costs seem incredibly high to those of us paying for it (my mum was in a fantastic care home (the one on City Way, Rochester) until her death) and as you say £650 a week seems a lot. However, as many residents require 24 hour supervision, having 3 nurses working 8 hour shifts at £10 an hour comes to £240 a day. I know that each nurse will look after more than one patient, and will be lucky to get £10 an hour, but costs for running a good care home are extremely high, guess it's why so many have ceased to operate. :(

However, if we are to be judged by how we look after our old, a National Care System dedicated to the old seems seems a lot better than the uncoordinated system that we currently have.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#8
I misread the title of this thread at first sight and I think I'll go with that.

Is National Service Desirable/Possible?

I'll go for yes on both counts in relation to social care. We start with every single citizen, who is physically capable, being required to do a month's unpaid work in a care setting. Employers would be legally required to release staff for the duration of their service and to pay them the minimum wage. No exceptions, no excuses.

We would then have a national discussion on what to pay care staff and how to finance the system. I wager that we'd find some answers PDQ.
 

jokerman

Vital 1st Team Regular
#9
Dementia is treated as just part of growing old, so care is paid for by the old one if they have the money, but if we treat it as an illness, it raises public health costs massively.

I can't help but think there is link between the solution to the problem of paying for care and the solution to the problem of a sticky, pricey housing market, although it will leave a lot of people unhappy by breaking the postwar middle class deal.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#10
Dementia is treated as just part of growing old, so care is paid for by the old one if they have the money, but if we treat it as an illness, it raises public health costs massively.

I can't help but think there is link between the solution to the problem of paying for care and the solution to the problem of a sticky, pricey housing market, although it will leave a lot of people unhappy by breaking the postwar middle class deal.
Effectively a wealth tax. Other models are available, which might avoid collision with the home owning democracy cant.
 

chris who

Vital Football Hero
#12
My wife was a carer for 13 years for a lady with MS.It was in the ladies own home my wife ran the operation including employment of staff.It was often required to work endless hours 60 to 70 hour week was normal.She often went weeks without a rest day .Never earning more than about a ten to twelve pounds a hour depending on time of day and weekends extra payments mostly less than that.Due mainly to part time staff not turning up or leaving the profession the hours could increase on a day to day basis .It can be extremely physical and mentally demanding. We both were also looking after my father at the same time who just required up too a few hours a day.So we covered it.The problem is not enough people want to do it .It has piss poor pay for doing a job that can destroy your own life .My wife finished as it was damaging her own health to the extent she used a walking stick regularly for quite a while.
 
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shotshy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#13
My wife was a carer for 13 years for a lady with MS she ran the operation and was often required to work endless hours 60 to 70 hour week was normal.Due mainly to part time staff not turning up or leaving the profession. It can be extremely physical and mentally demanding. We both were also looking after my father at the same time who just required up too a few hours a day.So we covered it.The problem is not enough people want to do it .It has piss poor pay for doing a job that can destroy your own life .My wife finished as it was damaging her own health to the extent she used a walking stick regularly for quite a while.
So, do you think a national care service is desirable?
 

Vambogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#14
There are around 5,500 care home providers in the UK. The vast majority are small with around 4,000 owning just one home to the largest half dozen groups having over 100 homes each.
Nationalisation might be nice to have but the cost of buying out this size of private sector care home business could not be contemplated for decades with the level of borrowing we are racking up at the moment.
Shame, as I would suspect currently many owners would be only too keen to offload to the government at a knock down price.
 

chris who

Vital Football Hero
#15
So, do you think a national care service is desirable?
Some sort of proper professional body is definitely needed.Really there are some amazing people doing a incredibly hard job.While other get away with doing next to nothing for the same money .There is no proof often of who is doing the job correctly and who is not .That must change how you achieve that without spending massive money I don't know. But definitely needs more rewards for those doing a great job.That most of us would not put up with for a week let alone as a profession.
 

chris who

Vital Football Hero
#16
There are around 5,500 care home providers in the UK. The vast majority are small with around 4,000 owning just one home to the largest half dozen groups having over 100 homes each.
Nationalisation might be nice to have but the cost of buying out this size of private sector care home business could not be contemplated for decades with the level of borrowing we are racking up at the moment.
Shame, as I would suspect currently many owners would be only too keen to offload to the government at a knock down price.
It is not about owners it is really about the quality of care even in some of the most expensive places the people in there can be badly cared for.Unless there is a relative or friends keeping a eye on things often poor care can creep in.There should be some sort of regular inspection at very least with the best staff and care homes being rewarded for their efforts. In much the same way as schools the care sector should be more regulated.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#17
Care homes make an absolute fortune.
You need to perhaps modify your statement based on a bit of research. They charge an absolute fortune but do they make an absolute fortune? In this day and age I very much doubt it. The CQC ensures where and whenever it can that certain standards have to be maintained, which includes staff numbers, laundry and food requirements and, if any care is involved, qualified staff to distribute medication. I suspect the Care Act of 2014 has pushed up costs. I read somewhere that it costs £400 a day to stay in hospital in the UK; so, do care homes really make a fortune? Again, I doubt it.
 

shotshy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#19
An uncoordinated system that led to the Govt being unable to provide adequate PPE and we now know the consequences of that
Is it the government’s responsibility to supply ppe to private limited companies?
That’s what the vast majority are.
The inference has been that these residential care homes are part of the health service.
They either are and free at point of use, or private enterprises and ultimately responsible for their procurement of stock.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#20
Is it the government’s responsibility to supply ppe to private limited companies?
That’s what the vast majority are.
The inference has been that these residential care homes are part of the health service.
They either are and free at point of use, or private enterprises and ultimately responsible for their procurement of stock.
You obviously didn't hear what Hancock said. The patients and care staff are all entitled to free care; are you another who thinks care homes make a fortune?