Hillsborough - 30 years on | Page 5 | Vital Football

Hillsborough - 30 years on

jogills said:
Keep shouting that to yourself in your sleep after you have finished counting muslims.
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Cheers.

Can you explain to me what in my post 6.31pm yesterday prompted you to say

"And so you out yourself again as peddler of hate and untruth."

What, in that post, was either hate or untruth?

(WayneKerr, you don't need to respond, the question is to Jogills)
 
ThreeSixes said:
Cheers.

Can you explain to me what in my post 6.31pm yesterday prompted you to say

"And so you out yourself again as peddler of hate and untruth."

What, in that post, was either hate or untruth?

(WayneKerr, you don't need to respond, the question is to Jogills)
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You made a statement that there had been crushes before at Hillsborough with the intention of insinuating that the tragedy was inevitable. There had not been crushes at Hillsborough though a single incident was brought up in court involving Spurs fans in 1981 but there was no crush because a decision was taken to open gates and allow fans to spill on the pitch. That decision was the correct one but but Duckenfield expressly ordered that those gates be kept locked.

You make a suggestion that Liverpool fans were notoriously more prone to turn up with tickets than other fans. No evidence and no relevance:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/fewer-liverpool-fans-thought-entered-17128649

You expressly and wholly blame Liverpool fans for Heysel, a bizarre smear to account for a fairly complex set of events. They undoubtedly bore responsibility but so did Juventus fans, football and safety authorities and the police :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

Your MO is very clear and relies on crime by association, anecdote and prejudice. You start from the end and justify backwards never missing an opportunity to cast aspersions about groups you don't like.

I began by believing the official story about Hillsborough and took some convincing about just how false that narrative was. It relied on stereotypes and denigration of the people of an entire city and then went on to invent downright lies and misinformation to hide the truth.
 
jogills said:
You made a statement that there had been crushes before at Hillsborough with the intention of insinuating that the tragedy was inevitable.
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Jesus, you are touchy! I didn't insinuate that a tragedy was inevitable. I said that Hillsborough had hosted similar matches before (fact) and this was the first one with deaths (fact). It clearly wasn't a safe stadium however, as there had been a previous incident, but this didn't mean that the tragedy was inevitable, quite the opposite - numerous football matches had taken place in that stadium over the years.

Re Liverpool fans being more prone to turn up without tickets than others, that was anecdotal from people on other forums, that had witnessed it. It was also brought up in the trial when excerpts from Kenny Dalglish's book were read out, about cup final crowds bursting at the seams. If you know different about Liverpool crowds in the 80's, then I would be wrong and I apologise.

Re Heysel, I didn't realise there was even a dispute about who was responsible?

"it's never your fault"
"it's never your fault"
"always the victim, it's never your fault"
 
ThreeSixes said:
Jesus, you are touchy! I didn't insinuate that a tragedy was inevitable. I said that Hillsborough had hosted similar matches before (fact) and this was the first one with deaths (fact). It clearly wasn't a safe stadium however, as there had been a previous incident, but this didn't mean that the tragedy was inevitable, quite the opposite - numerous football matches had taken place in that stadium over the years.

Re Liverpool fans being more prone to turn up without tickets than others, that was anecdotal from people on other forums, that had witnessed it. It was also brought up in the trial when excerpts from Kenny Dalglish's book were read out, about cup final crowds bursting at the seams. If you know different about Liverpool crowds in the 80's, then I would be wrong and I apologise.

Re Heysel, I didn't realise there was even a dispute about who was responsible?

"it's never your fault"
"it's never your fault"
"always the victim, it's never your fault"
Click to expand...

I'm not touchy I was answering your rather touchy question but hey ho.

We'll agree to disagree on the ineveitability or otherwise but you might wish to read through your posts on this subject.

Heysel was another disaster where a range of factors conspired to bring about tragedy. I would never exonerate Liverpool fans from their share of blame for that day but if you are not aware of all the other actors and factors you may wish to find out.

Anecdote supporting stereotype as I say.

I'd ask for the meaning and relevance of your "quote" but I think I know: a poor attempt at a generalised smear.
 
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