Here we go! | Page 406 | Vital Football

Here we go!

radfordinlondon said:
I was referring to modern history and the big boys. US, Russia and latterly china. There is plenty of interference, i accept its a bit more subtle than latin America but thats not really saying much. The fight for resources, dodgy deals, people getting killed can be traced the length and breadth of africa zed
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It's kind of more complicated than that.

The US had a quite lengthy period of not getting involved.

The UK hasn't been that active for quite some time now.

The Soviets were quite active but Russia has only recently started poking its nose in and only in limited locations.

China has been very active throughout and the Turks and Arabs are starting to get involved again after a long period of inactivity and the Indians are sniffing after a piece of the pie now as well.

Whilst there has been a lot of external influence in African affairs this has been more concentrated in certain countries and regions.

For example, the English speaking Commonwealth countries have been much more immune to external interference than the Francophone countries, Arab speaking countries or Lusophone countries.

Also there was a period of around 20 years when the west (apart from France) had very little interest in African affairs and this basically handed over Africa to China on a plate which has weakened democracy, led to human rights abuses, high levels of indebtedness, increased levels of corruption and generally makes it more difficult for any non-Chinese (including even the locals themselves) to do business.
 
Bremen Tree said:
Don't expect any other answer than from Strett other than deflection and whatabouttery.

I was back on the rock this weekend and before departing the EU checked the price of some duty free items (bourbon and cologne). The UK price was pennies cheaper when compared to the EU. So I'm not entirely not convinced that duty free is really a Brexit wins as such. Saying that this lot will take anything measly morsel as a win.

#desperate
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Think what you want, chump. I've photographic evidence, what have you got?
Oh if you think that's 'pennies' then I never want to hear you complain if anything goes up by a similar amount...

Chump.jpg
 
radfordinlondon said:
I was referring to modern history and the big boys. US, Russia and latterly china. There is plenty of interference, i accept its a bit more subtle than latin America but thats not really saying much. The fight for resources, dodgy deals, people getting killed can be traced the length and breadth of africa zed
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Exactly. Lumumba, Nkrumah, Obote are a few examples of leader disposed of by Western back tyrants
 
Strett said:
So I have actual evidence to back up what I say, you have a made up story and I'm the comedian?
Lol.
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Nothing has been made up and taking photos to prove a point is not my bag. I understand why you saw the need to take a photo considering how "well" Brexit is going . 🤣
 
Bremen Tree said:
Nothing has been made up and taking photos to prove a point is not my bag. I understand why you saw the need to take a photo considering how "well" Brexit is going . 🤣
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"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
 
Bremen Tree said:
Nothing has been made up and taking photos to prove a point is not my bag. I understand why you saw the need to take a photo considering how "well" Brexit is going . 🤣
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I couldn't believe that the Bumper Brexit Booze Bonus was so good, so had to take a photo.
 
i am a tree said:
I stopped work two years ago due to illness.
Living on benefits was becoming impossible, so given i had heard wages were going up after brexit i decided to try and look for a job just doing basic lab stuff with no stress.
I started a few weeks ago having gone from analyst (a high up position with technical knowledge and responsibility) to technician (basic lab staff) and my wage is 6 grand higher.
This is (partly) a benefit associated with cost of the current worker shortages, and if brexit is to blame for that, then this is the other side of that coin and it has worked out pretty well for me.
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half the issue is looking after the people on benefits and as you said, its kinda destitute down there
 
One of the benefits stated of the EU was the peace dividend. It was pointed out that this was more likely to be because of NATO than anything coming from Brussels but it was oft repeated.

See Putin is following up his infiltration in Ukraine with infiltrations of a different type in Poland, from Belarus. EU has done nothing to aid Poland accept to insist on secrecy from its Border Force and now NATO has had to step in.

Tension is also rising in Balkans but where are the peacemaking EU. Like the last skirmish there, no where. The U S has had to step in. So much for EU being peace makers. A strong NATO is all important, nothing to do with EU.
 
Polly 433 said:
One of the benefits stated of the EU was the peace dividend. It was pointed out that this was more likely to be because of NATO than anything coming from Brussels but it was oft repeated.

See Putin is following up his infiltration in Ukraine with infiltrations of a different type in Poland, from Belarus. EU has done nothing to aid Poland accept to insist on secrecy from its Border Force and now NATO has had to step in.

Tension is also rising in Balkans but where are the peacemaking EU. Like the last skirmish there, no where. The U S has had to step in. So much for EU being peace makers. A strong NATO is all important, nothing to do with EU.
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Yeah, it needs an army really.
 
ZedRed said:
It's kind of more complicated than that.

The US had a quite lengthy period of not getting involved.

The UK hasn't been that active for quite some time now.

The Soviets were quite active but Russia has only recently started poking its nose in and only in limited locations.

China has been very active throughout and the Turks and Arabs are starting to get involved again after a long period of inactivity and the Indians are sniffing after a piece of the pie now as well.

Whilst there has been a lot of external influence in African affairs this has been more concentrated in certain countries and regions.

For example, the English speaking Commonwealth countries have been much more immune to external interference than the Francophone countries, Arab speaking countries or Lusophone countries.

Also there was a period of around 20 years when the west (apart from France) had very little interest in African affairs and this basically handed over Africa to China on a plate which has weakened democracy, led to human rights abuses, high levels of indebtedness, increased levels of corruption and generally makes it more difficult for any non-Chinese (including even the locals themselves) to do business.
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That was kind of my point about it being complex. Again i broadly agree with your description but the US for example has been all over it, plently of quiet CIA type stuff and dodgy russian involvement in DRC, west africa. China came in the late 90s and runs a lot of stuff. Lots and lots and lots of chinese now living in africa whereas before there were almost none. Dont forget there was some very close collusion between govts and large mining companies.
 
Polly 433 said:
One of the benefits stated of the EU was the peace dividend. It was pointed out that this was more likely to be because of NATO than anything coming from Brussels but it was oft repeated.

See Putin is following up his infiltration in Ukraine with infiltrations of a different type in Poland, from Belarus. EU has done nothing to aid Poland accept to insist on secrecy from its Border Force and now NATO has had to step in.

Tension is also rising in Balkans but where are the peacemaking EU. Like the last skirmish there, no where. The U S has had to step in. So much for EU being peace makers. A strong NATO is all important, nothing to do with EU.
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Is that the same nato trump wanted to disband and macron called brain dead?
 
Bremen Tree said:
Exactly. Lumumba, Nkrumah, Obote are a few examples of leader disposed of by Western back tyrants
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On the surface looked like not much interference, behind the scenes it was a power battle to control them between US and Russia and latterly China. Tbh China beat the yanks all about town and they own huge, huge amounts of raw materials.

So yea the idea that the west wants africa to get its shit together and doesnt interfere is laughable. I know that isnt exactly what zed said.
 
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