GFC Accounts yet again overdue - nothing new there then | Page 9 | Vital Football

GFC Accounts yet again overdue - nothing new there then

Wayne - 'the loan of £9,050,000 was with Barclays'

To be clear where is the factual evidence for this?
If the bank loan was not from Barclays, who would you say is the lender bearing in mind Barclays has a debenture [a long-term security yielding a fixed rate of interest, issued by a company and secured against assets] with the GFC Group?
 
Who knows but please keep up. The charges associated with Bank of Scotland were satisfied in 2011, the loan of £9,050,000 was with Barclays.

Alright you old goat, some of us have businesses to run so can't spend all day perusing message boards
 
Would it help if I said I lent the club £9M (have a piece of paper showing the club owners me £9M) and I don't trust Scally to pay it back. If you could all dip your hands in your pockets, I would be most grateful :-)
 
£3m eh? What about the other £6,050,000 shown as owing to Barclays and now written off.

No idea mate. I am not an accountant. But it’s got me wondering so I looked at the back story of GFC accounts to try to make some sense of it…Long post alert….

In accounts up to May 2007 we had a bank overdraft of £12.5m. This is basically the height of our debts. It’s stated in point 27 (‘going concern’) that directors have come to an agreement with BOS on a restructuring exercise which would result in substantial interest saving over the next three years – due for completion on the 14th December. At this point we are spending around 800k a year on servicing the high overdraft.

Then in the accounts up to May 2008 (with our bankers still stated as BOS) we sold the ground to a previously dormant company ‘Priestfield Developments’ for £10m. We also became part of GFC Holdings Ltd. which owned both GFC and PD. The accounts tell us that we used the proceeds of this stadium sale to reduce the overdraft to £3.3m.

All charges over Priestfield associated to GFC by BOS are also now recorded as satisfied in 2008 on Companies house. New charges are set up between BOS and Priestfield Developments Ltd from 2008.

However in GFC’s 2009 accounts (with our bankers still as BOS) it then states that the 3.5m bank overdraft is secured by a debenture (dated 6th June 2008) over the whole of the company’s assets and by a legal charge over Priestfield stadium. Firstly, how can they secure an overdraft using a property they don’t legally own, secondly, this is not recorded on the charges register against GFC either. It’s only recorded against PD Ltd.

The main question to me at this point is, where did Priestfield Developments get the money to buy the stadium from GFC? To answer this we need to look at the Priestfield Developments accounts:

So in the first full set of accounts for Priestfield Developments, made up to end of May 2008, there is the 10m purchase of the stadium (with 100k costs), and then a new bank loan of 10.1m (Notable IMO that this is a bank loan as opposed to an overdraft), which is now only repayable within 2-5 years (i.e. aligning with the statement in 2007 GFC accounts that it might be a 3 year deal). It’s notable that there are no annual (part)repayments of the loan, nor is there any interest paid/accrued on it stated in these accounts.

Subsequent accounts show no activity in PD whatsoever until the accounts made up to May 2011. At that point, the loan is now repayable within 1 year/on demand. It also states that the ground has been sold back to GFC Ltd for £1,050,000. At this point then on the Charges Register all debentures and charges for PD are recorded as satisfied by BOS. So BOS now have no connection to GFC in our accounts or on Companies house. Consequently, a new debenture and charges over the stadium is now recorded in GFC’s accounts. However this time not to BOS, but to Barclays and to 3 directors Ltd. As per Wayne’s concerns, these are all still recorded as outstanding today. Worth noting, in GFC’s accounts the banker is now recorded as Barclays from 2011 onwards.

In the PD accounts made up to May 2012 then, the bank loan now sits at the magic number of £9,050,000 (which is noted in this year’s accounts as being written off), following the income of the 1m from the sale of the club back to GFC. And it states that security has been given for this loan – despite no charges being associated with PD at this point in time. Again, except this time the opposite way around, exactly how Priestfield Developments can use a property they don’t now legally own (it’s been sold to GFC at this point), as security for their loan: I won’t pretend to understand. I can only assume the bank were happy with the arrangement, and it may have been something to do with the group structure and liability.

The accounts then for Priestfield Developments stay the same until the last filed accounts in May 2015. The company is then dissolved on 3rd Jan 2017. This is notable because the accounts have not been filed for the final year and a half of the companies operation. This makes it virtually impossible to see what actually happened to the Bank loan and how/whether it was repaid or transferred to another company. It’s very possible that this loan was finally formally written off by the bank after this point, as was possibly agreed way back in 2008. Maybe it’s worth noting this period covers almost a nicely ‘round’ 10 years since the original agreement was made with BOS. I don’t know if this was the consideration for any debt being written off.

A look back at GFC’s accounts then at this time:

In 2012, the year after we bought the ground back, we repaid the Overdraft, and now the main significant debt appearing on our balance sheet was a 1.8m debt to 3 directors. It would appear they paid off the overdraft. One would assume then that Three directors charge over GFC is nothing more than the security for their 1.8m loan.

Wayne seems certain that Barclays’ charge over Priestfield is for 9m. but I can see nothing in the accounts or the charge that suggests this. Apologies if I’ve missed it. It looks like nothing other than security for a £3.5m overdraft facility which in 2012 was paid off when 3 directors put their loan in to the club, but that the facility was kept open at Barclays in case we needed it, and hence the charge has stayed on Priestfield until now. In fact I think in subsequent years the facility has been used at points as shown in the accounts.

Of course then we all know now as well that in the most recent set of accounts the 9m debt is recorded formally as written off. I’ve no idea why this is even mentioned in the most recent accounts. It might have something to do with the lack of accounts for PD for this period.

The key unanswered questions would be then, why have no accounts been filed for PD for 1.5 years before they were dissolved. This creates the confusion over how the 9m debt disappeared. But whether there’s any concern here, I don’t think so.

Yes it might be worth asking what the nature of the charge that Barclays bank has over GFC. Is it only for the limited overdraft facility, and nothing to do with the 9m? yes it would be worth asking why no accounts were filed for the final year of PD’s history. This would all clarify the matter and put everyone at ease. But I also understand that Scally might simply not be able to share more on the matter.

Scally’s statements which he has been very clear in making, are that the only debts we have are to 3 directors, and an operational overdraft now to Barclays. There does not appear to be a loan hanging over us any longer. If he’s lying would be done for fraud/various other offences. I may be proven to be wrong, but I don’t think Scally would put himself and his family in that situation. I am not an accountant as Wayne and many on here seem to be, but I for one think there’s reason to be cheerful, and have no/limited concerns over any further charges over Priestfield in relation to the 9m debt. Will we ever find out what happened to it? I doubt it, but it seems gone, so fair play to Scally. He takes the blame for getting the club in the debt (overspend on stadium etc.), we were also quite unlucky at the time – Marlon King going to jail and ITV for example costing us millions, but mis-spend was also his fault. But what is clear is that he has worked very hard to rectify his errors in the subsequent 10 years and he seems to have worked a minor miracle (at best), or been extremely lucky (at worst) to get us out of it.

Yes we do seem to file accounts late, and don’t always complete our paperwork on time, but that's not criminal. Yes, there’s still unanswered questions - but I think that's need for confidentiality with the bank, rather than any dodgy dealings.

My conclusion is that Scally does deserve credit for the way he’s resolved this in the last 10 years. The future is going to be interesting. It’s the first time we have no significant debt hanging over us, no legal cases hanging over us. The Banqueting facilities are starting to bring in profit. We now have a school which is bringing in great profits in comparison, and that is supplementing the poor attendances (which are a concern). We have the opportunity to finish as high as 12th this year. If we do that then this season would have been a significant success, despite many of the scally basher’s moans. Hopefully a strong end to the season and as strong early transfer window dealings this summer will create some positivity improve ticket receipts for next year and get those back on track as they are the only significant concern for me at the moment really.
 
Firstly, how can they secure an overdraft using a property they don’t legally own,
Have you ever had a mortgage?
Yes it might be worth asking what the nature of the charge that Barclays bank has over GFC. Is it only for the limited overdraft facility, and nothing to do with the 9m?
See below
yes it would be worth asking why no accounts were filed for the final year of PD’s history.
The company was liquidated but mysteriously the loan was shown in the consolidated accounts of GFC Holdings but not in either the company balance sheet of GFC Holdings or GFC Ltd
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My conclusion is that Scally does deserve credit for the way he’s resolved this in the last 10 years. The future is going to be interesting. It’s the first time we have no significant debt hanging over us, no legal cases hanging over us.
When the legal charge is removed I'll be delighted - my concern is that while the loan has been taken off the balance sheet, security for such loan [not just an overdraft] may still be a burden on the assets of GFC.
 
Have you ever had a mortgage?

Of course I have a mortgage on the property I own, but I've never had a mortgage on a property I am not named on the title deeds for, for example. This is essentially what it seems GFC and PD were doing. From 2008-11 GFC secured their overdraft on a property that PD owned.

See below

I can’t see where this specifies that the debenture relates specifically to a 9m loan, or is simply security against accounts GFC holds with Barclays – i.e. the overdraft facility GFC has access to, which was largely paid off in 2012 when 3 directors put 1.8m into GFC, but which is obviously still used throughout the year etc.
 
If the bank loan was not from Barclays, who would you say is the lender bearing in mind Barclays has a debenture [a long-term security yielding a fixed rate of interest, issued by a company and secured against assets] with the GFC Group?

I don't know for sure and I am not brave/stupid enough to make bold statements based on limited information. However I am aware of previous cases whereby lenders have agreed to write off debts and release charges subject to confidentiality agreements where the write off is not reported or recorded for a significant period of time.

Correct me if I am wrong, but your statement that 'the loan of £9m was with Barclays' is based on your own reading of the limited information available and not factual evidence?

If that is the case then that's a very bold statement to make in a public arena.
 
Of course I have a mortgage on the property I own, but I've never had a mortgage on a property I am not named on the title deeds for, for example. This is essentially what it seems GFC and PD were doing. From 2008-11 GFC secured their overdraft on a property that PD owned.

There's no problem with that. Scally owns GFC Holdings Ltd that in turn owns 75% of GFC Ltd; therefore, he can use assets he owns but has chosen to do so without consulting the not insignificant 25% minority shareholding and 25% owners of the ground and fittings etc.

I can’t see where this specifies that the debenture relates specifically to a 9m loan, or is simply security against accounts GFC holds with Barclays – i.e. the overdraft facility GFC has access to, which was largely paid off in 2012 when 3 directors put 1.8m into GFC, but which is obviously still used throughout the year etc.
When the charge is removed I'll be happy.
 
I don't know for sure and I am not brave/stupid enough to make bold statements based on limited information. However I am aware of previous cases whereby lenders have agreed to write off debts and release charges subject to confidentiality agreements where the write off is not reported or recorded for a significant period of time.
Removing a charge doesn't reveal anything that could be deemed business or commercially confidential - this is the satisfaction statement filed in respect of the BOS facility

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Correct me if I am wrong, but your statement that 'the loan of £9m was with Barclays' is based on your own reading of the limited information available and not factual evidence?
Take a look at Note 2 - the only security given was by GFC Ltd to Barclays Bank and Three Directors Ltd. So, you tell me who loaned the money/assumed the debt if it's not Barclays.

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It's all as clear as mud. No wonder investors don't appear to be knocking down doors to get involved or invest in GFC.

Murky murky murky waters.
 
When the charge is removed I'll be happy.
But if the charge is indeed for an operational overdraft facility, and not the 9m loan, then it's most probable that the charge will never be removed. Or at least will not be removed until we remove the overdraft facility, which since it’s being used each year may never happen. Furthermore even if we moved to another bank, the Barclays charge would go, but I’m sure the new bank we moved to and got a new overdraft with would also require a charge on Priestfield, so you’d just say you’re still not satisfied. Much like when we moved from BOS>Barclays, you’ll claim the debt could just have been transferred over once more to another bank.

It seems the only way you’ll be happy is if we somehow become so rich that we don’t need the overdraft, and Scally decides to get rid completely, and then the charge is removed. It seems more applicable to simply ask the question – what does Barclays’ charge actually relate to?

It is hard for some to accept our luck of having a large crippling debt basically written off. But It’s worth noting that at the time we were paying a completely unsustainable 800k a year in interest and would have gone bust had we not done this deal. It was also the start of the credit crunch when property prices fell significantly – so the asset itself was nowhere near as saleable/liquid as some suggest. I am sure this would have weighed heavily upon the bank’s reasoning for accepting the deal and cutting their losses/recouperating as much as they felt was possible at the time.
 
Take a look at Note 2 - the only security given was by GFC Ltd to Barclays Bank and Three Directors Ltd. So, you tell me who loaned the money/assumed the debt if it's not Barclays.
This is the point Wayne. it was not assumed by anyone else. it was written off, as has been reported in the most recent accounts.
 
But if the charge is indeed for an operational overdraft facility, and not the 9m loan, then it's most probable that the charge will never be removed.
Have you read the debenture [a long-term security yielding a fixed rate of interest, issued by a company and secured against assets - hardly an overdraft ]charge details in full?

If the comprehensive charge is not removed, it could be that the loan has been assumed by a third party.
 
It's all as clear as mud. No wonder investors don't appear to be knocking down doors to get involved or invest in GFC.

Murky murky murky waters.

I don’t think it would be putting off investors at all. And is now not that murky either!

I have to assume any investor would have a very basic understanding of corporate finance and would include an accountant with any added due diligence. They will simply ask him what the nature of the charges over Priestfield are. At which point he would simply say (if this is case) that the 3 directors charge is for the 1.8m loan, and the Barclays charge is for the Overdraft. It’s not that hard to understand is it? I am sure it could be corroborated with paperwork by Scally very easily, if needed.

If questioned further about what happened to the 9m, then I would imagine he’d also get any serious investor to sign a Non-Disclosure agreement, to enable him to talk about exactly what happened with the bank loan. He wont chat to us about it, but would have no problems chatting about it with investors who are bound by NDAs. NDAs are standard practice in takeover/investor discussions anyway. If it was indeed simply that the bank wrote off the debt and we couldn’t report it for some time (and this could be backed up very clearly), then this would be no issue at all to any investor once explained and would make absolute sense as to why it’s been kept secret, so would not raise alarm bells. Now that it is recorded as written off in our accounts also I would imagine it would cause even less of an issue, it probably wouldn’t even be asked from now onwards as it won’t appear on the balance sheet/accounts any longer.

The thing with Scally’s quest for investment that lots of fans are failing to get is that Scally really is looking for investors - not buyers. He is looking for someone to invest £X in the club to help build a new stadium and invest in the squad. His first choice seems to be to maintain control of both the clubs operations, as well as the majority shareholding. Although he’s been open stating he’s also had interest from people wanting to buy and take over, as well as people wanting to buy a controlling share, but leave Scally as CEO/Chairman to utilise his experience – he’s always said none were the right deal for the club.

I would say the largest blocker here at the moment to finding concrete investors is the fact the club has limited support from the Council in regards to actually building it. It's like trying to sell a house with a plot of land at the side that you don't own that has no planning permission on it but saying there's opportunity for extension. It's a lot easier to sell a house if the land you want to extend on is yours, and you have planning permission already. This is slowly moving forward, but just seems to go nowhere year on year. I would say scally’s latest deal with the council is merely another attempt to get the council onside to push this forward at some point in the next few years.
 
Have you read the debenture [a long-term security yielding a fixed rate of interest, issued by a company and secured against assets - hardly an overdraft ]charge details in full?

If the comprehensive charge is not removed, it could be that the loan has been assumed by a third party.

Funnily enough a good friend of mine from University actually works for Barclays Corporate as a senior relationship manager. He works primarily in the North of England and has done work with football clubs in the past (Newcastle). I could ask him to find out more detail over the Barclays debenture. not sure if he'd be willing. He actually happens to be staying over my house in a couple of weeks, so might try to fit it in the conversation while he's drunk!

Doubt I could share any outcome on here though!
 
At which point he would simply say (if this is case) that the 3 directors charge is for the 1.8m loan, and the Barclays charge is for the Overdraft.
But the charge from Barclays is a charge on the company's assets. The Accounts for PD Ltd report that the loan of £9m is secured and fro 2011, only two charges have been placed on the company.
The thing with Scally’s quest for investment that lots of fans are failing to get is that Scally really is looking for investors - not buyers.
So, if that is happening then we need to understand that, if a third party [potential investor] has assumed the debt and a deal is almost struck, it will go through.