radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
depends which dowell they get- the first 10 games for us or his last 10
Forest and Dirty Leeds
- Thread starter farcall2
- Start date
depends which dowell they get- the first 10 games for us or his last 10
Now being denied that Chelsea have accepted an offer from Wolves.
apocalypse
Vital Squad Member
I am pleased we won especially after what happened in the reverse fixture. Always happy when we win wether we play amazing football or get lucky.
In all fairness what have Millwall and their fans got to do with it? We have spent a lot money and have obvious intentions of promotion. Not sure Millwall's ambitions are the same. Everyone knows what Millwall are gonna do every game. I apologise for wanting more from forest at home.
I doubt any forest fan would've been happy with that first 20mins of the 2nd half where we were dominated by 10 men and conceded 2 goals. It was pretty shocking and if Leeds had gone more conservative after that they couldve won. We only looked half decent after we equalised cos they still went for it and left us space. Even then they had good chances. Yeah we had a patched up defence but why put yacob in there? Had janko on the bench, bring him on and put Robinson in there?
Happy with the result and the season so far but with the current defence I worry about us being able to maintain a playoff push. Keep Dawson fit and Toby on the pitch maybe. Hopefully get some players in to push us on.
Like I said happy with the result but the game reminded me we are still a bit off genuine promotion contenders ATM
InvincibleBrianMan
Vital 1st Team Regular
So you think Leeds were tactically naive to keep up the attacking sexy football but you.think we should have done the same against the top side in the league when we are down to one recognized centre back and have our two best attackers missing ?
I don't see anything lucky in yesterday's win. It was more about having a gameplan then adapting despite losing two important players during the game.
Mappred
Vital 1st Team Regular
I’m not looking for an argument, Apocalypse, but you said yourself, Leeds are a step above us, so sometimes you have to play like that. And to be fair it worked. Yes they were brilliant for that first twenty minutes, but we got over it and we were better the last 25.
Just as an aside; how do you think we should play against Chelsea?
Just as an aside; how do you think we should play against Chelsea?
orbitalforest
Vital Football Legend
Will he be a round peg in a square hole ?
LetchworthRed
Vital Squad Member
Robinson and Fox would have been two left-footed CBs which is not good. That was the reasoning behind the substitution.
Calvin Plummer
Vital Football Legend
CP originally said that, The Pope merely echoed him.
Hardy Forest
Vital 1st Team Regular
I’m afraid I agree with Apocalypse. We are a very good team and have shown that we can beat anyone in this league. There is no way that we should be dominated at home, by 10 men, by anyone in this league. We were very poor right up until we equalised. Then we actually started to play. Leeds dominated the first half and then cut us to pieces with ten men at the start of the second. That shouldn’t happen.
I don’t think there are any teams that much better than us in this league. Do Leeds have a squad miles better than ours? I don’t think so. I think we can be every bit as good.
The reason why Leeds and Norwich are sitting top of the league, is that both their managers set out to impose themselves and win every game, regardless of whether it is home and away. We set up not to lose.
It was a great result, but the scoreline flattered us. I want AK to stay, but he needs to stop worrying about what the opposition are going to do so much, and instead concentrate on instilling that winning mentality into the team.
I don’t think there are any teams that much better than us in this league. Do Leeds have a squad miles better than ours? I don’t think so. I think we can be every bit as good.
The reason why Leeds and Norwich are sitting top of the league, is that both their managers set out to impose themselves and win every game, regardless of whether it is home and away. We set up not to lose.
It was a great result, but the scoreline flattered us. I want AK to stay, but he needs to stop worrying about what the opposition are going to do so much, and instead concentrate on instilling that winning mentality into the team.
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
What is this about being dominated?
What constitutes domination?
We had pretty much the same number of shots as the top team and we scored twice as many goals. On that measure, who dominated who?
I can only assume people mean possession. I do get sick of this fantasy that possession is the be all and end all. It is not necessarily important at all. We had around 63% possession against Milwall and where did that get us? It was the other way against Leeds and we scored four goals.
Possession does not matter, especially if your strength is in counter attack.
What constitutes domination?
We had pretty much the same number of shots as the top team and we scored twice as many goals. On that measure, who dominated who?
I can only assume people mean possession. I do get sick of this fantasy that possession is the be all and end all. It is not necessarily important at all. We had around 63% possession against Milwall and where did that get us? It was the other way against Leeds and we scored four goals.
Possession does not matter, especially if your strength is in counter attack.
Hardy Forest
Vital 1st Team Regular
No Pope, I’m talking about dominating the play. Once we opened the scoring, we pretty much played in our own half until we got that second.
Away from home that’s fine, but we shouldn’t be dominated like that at home. We are too good a side to be letting teams do that to us, and that’s why we are sitting so many points behind the top two.
You were at the game and I’d be very surprised if you were enjoying what you were watching when Leeds took the lead with ten men?
There is no way Leeds and Norwich have better squads than we do. If possession isn’t that important, why are those two so far ahead of us?
Away from home that’s fine, but we shouldn’t be dominated like that at home. We are too good a side to be letting teams do that to us, and that’s why we are sitting so many points behind the top two.
You were at the game and I’d be very surprised if you were enjoying what you were watching when Leeds took the lead with ten men?
There is no way Leeds and Norwich have better squads than we do. If possession isn’t that important, why are those two so far ahead of us?
InvincibleBrianMan
Vital 1st Team Regular
Position matters because they can't score when we have the ball, but it is not the only or the most important factor.
Mappred
Vital 1st Team Regular
He does know his ONIONZ does that CP bloke.
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
No, we are miles behind the top two because we don't score enough goals. This wouldn't be a disaster if we were more like Boro with only 18 conceded. But we have the same number of goals conceded as the rest of the top teams but can't score the same number of goals as them.
If we could defend a lead reliably like a low scoring, low conceding team should then there would be no problem and we'd be well in the mix.
It has nothing to do with possession or "domination" as you are calling it, because in games we have dominated we have struggled to score and in games we have allowed the other team possession we have done much, much better in general.
What you are talking about still amounts to possession and it's irrelevant. They had the same number of shots as us with 60% possession but half the number of goals.
As for whether I was enjoying it, I enjoyed the game at the end. Leeds took the lead in a period when they were really pushing behind us but until they equalised I felt we were controlling the game pretty well. I even said to the people around me that I felt it was going to be our day. They weren't creating gilt edges chances or forcing us into desperate defending. I can usually smell a goal coming for the opposition but their equaliser,as much possession as they were having actually took me by surprise a bit. Like in the home games they were throwing stones at the door but not really directly knocking on it.
If we are winning I don't give a shit if we concede possession and control the game. I like counter attacking football so I'm perfectly happy watching us make the opposition waste loads of possession while achieving nothing whilst tearing them apart on the break
Hardy Forest
Vital 1st Team Regular
And that’s fine, I absolutely agree that possession for possessions sake is pointless and dull as dishwater to watch. However, that’s not how Leeds and Norwich play. They take the game to the opposition, they don’t play pointless back and sideways football. They have the mentality that they will win, it’s why they score so many late goals. We don’t have that as yet.
You dodged the question somewhat, because I think you would have been as disappointed as I was at 1-2, particularly as we had the man advantage. 10 men shouldn’t be dominating us like that at home. And yes, I could see their goals coming, we were containing nothing, they were battering us and it was only a question of time.
Don’t get me wrong, I think AK has done a really good job and has brought about a big improvement. Away from home we are doing really well and he just about has the balance right. I would like to see less time wasting and gamesmanship, but that’s about it.
At home we haven’t been positive enough and have given away too many points to inferior teams. He has assembled a more than decent side, we just need that positive, winning mentality. Without it, we won’t put together the winning run we need.
You dodged the question somewhat, because I think you would have been as disappointed as I was at 1-2, particularly as we had the man advantage. 10 men shouldn’t be dominating us like that at home. And yes, I could see their goals coming, we were containing nothing, they were battering us and it was only a question of time.
Don’t get me wrong, I think AK has done a really good job and has brought about a big improvement. Away from home we are doing really well and he just about has the balance right. I would like to see less time wasting and gamesmanship, but that’s about it.
At home we haven’t been positive enough and have given away too many points to inferior teams. He has assembled a more than decent side, we just need that positive, winning mentality. Without it, we won’t put together the winning run we need.
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
No, you are right in that- they press relentlessly, they run in behind and they get people forward far better than we do.
That is why they score more goals.
Not sure I would personally call that domination as such when it didn't result in more shots or general attempts on goal. But I know what you mean.
Our players just don't look confident enough to do that.
We are lacking pace for a start.
Our fubacks are absolutely dogshit at attacking. That is an absolute killer. Lolley was injured yesterday and has been played on the wrong side to accommodate others. But he's more of a central player than a crosser.
To be honest , we have no good crosses of the ball other than Osborn. Osborn is hit and miss- it's either miss or an absolute peach, obviously more of one than the other. He's also quite slow.
Cash is faster but also pretty poor at ball delivery a lot of the time.
Carvalho is great at ball delivery but probably 80% of what he tries doesn't come off (being kind). It's not far off and at 21 he'll get better and be on a better wavelength with teammates, but the reality is he can be frustrating at present.
Two of our key attacking midfielders seem to me to prefer to shoot themselves than set up for others, or are not great at the final ball. That's a problem.
Add to that Dias and Goncalves who also have no final ball.
All of Leeds's midfielders (and Norwich, along with their bench) were good at that kind of delivery into the box that we are struggling with. You would never see the forest box with only the Leeds striker waiting for the ball, but far too often Murphy is cutting a lonely figure while wondering if any forest midfielders might fancy actually visiting the box.
That's the different in my view. I wouldn't call it domination as such. It's about final ball delivery and we are so poor at it. That either needs to be coached into current players or we need some new faces.
Two Fullbacks who can attack confidently and cross would be great. Let's see what Byram can do. And we can afford Lolley for his goals but the right sided midfielder needs to have a good cross and delivery on him
Hardy Forest
Vital 1st Team Regular
I wouldn’t disagree with most of that. Delivery is a problem for us, though I do think you are being a little harsh on Darikwa. I’ve seen a big improvement in him over the course of this season and I think he is getting better going forward. We are often a little slow in getting the ball out to him when he is in space. Clearly still a lot of improvement needed, but I do think he has come on a lot.
While a little bit hit and miss at the moment, I do think Carvalho is quality and will only get better. I’m not sure a lot of our players have been on the same wavelength as him, but as the season has gone on, that has got better. It often seems to me, that players like Yacob and Geddy do link up well with him, and have that same quickness of thought.
While a little bit hit and miss at the moment, I do think Carvalho is quality and will only get better. I’m not sure a lot of our players have been on the same wavelength as him, but as the season has gone on, that has got better. It often seems to me, that players like Yacob and Geddy do link up well with him, and have that same quickness of thought.
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
Definately agree about Carvalho, we have a real player there. As we get better players and existing players improve (along with him) that will come to the fore.
apocalypse
Vital Squad Member
Leeds have injuries too and were down to ten men. We shouldve had more control but we were still outplayed. Bielsa gambled and it failed. The space we had because he went man for man at the back eventually told and we took advantage. We were very average and they could have won that if they sacrificed an attacker for an extra defender like most teams do. Great result but far from a great performance. Highlighted our fragility.
Won that game through spirit and attitude and not because of any great tactical masterplan.
Work in progress.
InvincibleBrianMan
Vital 1st Team Regular
4 - 2 to us! I m off to slash my wrists!
