Euros | Page 33 | Vital Football

Euros

Pope John XXIII said:
I don't know about the former, and the latter is also questionable. Gazza played abroad for a while. Platt fully embraced the Italian lifestyle. Both Keegan and Woodgate had done the same eveb earlier

The idea seems to come from Ian Rush, and his infamous "it was like being in a foreign country".

I think the lack is probably more explained by the (not incorrect) foreign perception of English players being spectacularly limited either technically or tactically or both
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How many English players have played abroad at any one time? It has never been many.

It is difficult to judge the whys and wherefores but how many English players have made European finals in the last 5 years? They can’t all or even mostly be technically or tactically deficient.
 
Basha73 said:
That’s not what I am saying at all.

English players have never travelled well so tend to stick to playing for English clubs. This meant that when English clubs were banned from Europe you saw pretty much zero involvement from English players. That is nothing to do with whether the players are good enough. There was plenty of interest reported at the time but

Similarly because of the ban, few too foreign players were over here but that changed rapidly once we were allowed back in.

You are also falling into the trap of thinking that clubs were the same then as they are now when they weren’t. As well as Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool you had Newcastle, Villa, Blackburn and even Forest for short periods.

There were 4 players in that England squad in 96 that played abroad either before or after. There are 3 in the current squad. Does that mean they aren’t playing for top sides?

And in comparison I give you Pickford, White, Mings, Rice, Calvert-Lewin, Grealish, Phillips who all play for mid-table or lower English sides. Does that make them any less talented? Or does it just mean the league has more strength in depth?
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Just to pick up on one bit as I don't have much time;

4 of the last 6 champions League finalists, and 3 of the last 6 Europa finalists were English teams. The top PL sides ARE among the best in Europe now
 
Basha73 said:
How many English players have played abroad at any one time? It has never been many.

It is difficult to judge the whys and wherefores but how many English players have made European finals in the last 5 years? They can’t all or even mostly be technically or tactically deficient.
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That's a good point; just shows why people are a bit optimistic to be considering England as contenders
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I don't know about the former, and the latter is also questionable. Gazza played abroad for a while. Platt fully embraced the Italian lifestyle. Both Keegan and Woodgate had done the same eveb earlier

The idea seems to come from Ian Rush, and his infamous "it was like being in a foreign country".

I think the lack is probably more explained by the (not incorrect) foreign perception of English players being spectacularly limited either technically or tactically or both
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English players have tended to fare better in Germany (i.e. Keegan and Woodcock) as it's culturally much more similar, however at that time and pretty much ever since, English clubs have offered more money than German clubs, meaning that Spain or Italy were the only options and for every McMananaman or Platt that settled well, there were three others who didn't settle or fare as well.

Younger English players continue to do well in Germany when they don't get a chance in English sides because it's easier to settle when you are younger and because of the greater cultural similarity. But once they're good enough and ready to play regular football in the Prem, they will come back.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Just to pick up on one bit as I don't have much time;

4 of the last 6 champions League finalists, and 3 of the last 6 Europa finalists were English teams. The top PL sides ARE among the best in Europe now
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And we will never know just how good English teams could or would have been in that time. As I say an average Forest side got to the quarters of the UEFA cup back then.

This is why it’s very difficult to gauge how good that England side was. I judge them by the opposition they faced and how they performed against them. You look at it differently.

As to who is right…? All I know is I enjoyed that period far more than I ever have any England side since.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
You duck. You wittered on about England being stuck playing 4-4-2 in 96 which clearly wasn't the case.
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I never once said that. Not once.

I have not mentioned 4-4-2 at all on this thread.

I have not said anything whatsoever about any formations the England national team might have played
 
That's the thing we've a more talented group of players than Wales and Scotland and only maybe a fraction of the commitment, England players for decades seem to lack the fire to really give it a proper go. Is it the managers, we've had a fair broad selection not many have managed to get them really going? 96 was probably the last time they seemed a unit and were playing with pride and passion, there's a handful of players in this squad who look up for it.

Southgate is so beige as a manager, he's far to conservative clearly we have a better attack than defence but we set up to be negative and nick games by the odd goal. If he let them be more positive we may have an outside chance, watching the movement and quick passing of most of the other teams then seeing ours static and constantly passing backwards/sideways is so boring. Rather go out going to toe to toe than lose by one goal without mustering a shot on target because we are trying to keep it tight. I had enough of that shit after last season with Forest.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
I never once said that. Not once.

I have not mentioned 4-4-2 at all on this thread.

I have not said anything whatsoever about any formations the England national team might have played
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Midfielders were there just to kick it to wingers....

How does that work in a 3-5-2 or a 4-2-2-1-1?
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Midfielders were there just to kick it to wingers....

How does that work in a 3-5-2 or a 4-2-2-1-1?
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Oh dear oh dear.

The quote;

Pope John XXIII said:
You've got to be kidding?

English football was still in the "central midfielders exist only to tackle and spread the ball to wingers" tradition in Euro 96.
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"English football".

Not "The England team".

We had been talking about Blackburn, who were exactly as I described. Most of the PL clubs were at the time. Yes, there is a little more nuance than that, but it was the arrival of the likes of Wenger, Vialli, Gullit, Benitez and Mourinho who saw English football move forward tactically.

I never once said England played 4-4-2; I seek to remember Venables settling on a sort of Christmas tree formation. I think Keegan was probably the next 4-4-2 manager
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Oh dear oh dear.

The quote;



"English football".

Not "The England team".

We had been talking about Blackburn, who were exactly as I described. Most of the PL clubs were at the time. Yes, there is a little more nuance than that, but it was the arrival of the likes of Wenger, Vialli, Gullit, Benitez and Mourinho who saw English football move forward tactically.

I never once said England played 4-4-2; I seek to remember Venables settling on a sort of Christmas tree formation. I think Keegan was probably the next 4-4-2 manager
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No we weren't. You subsequently did but at the time we were specifically talking about England in Eurp 96. You're turning into DF.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
No we weren't. You subsequently did but at the time we were specifically talking about England in Eurp 96. You're turning into DF.
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No, I wasn't.

Just because you weren't following the conversation properly and then arrogantly jumped in, doesn't mean you can tell me what I meant.

I was talking about English football; funnily enough, that is why I said "English Football"
 
Pope John XXIII said:
No, I wasn't.

Just because you weren't following the conversation properly and then arrogantly jumped in, doesn't mean you can tell me what I meant.

I was talking about English football; funnily enough, that is why I said "English Football"
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Lol arrogantly jumped in on a message board suggesting Euro 96? You're a precious little flower at times lolz would you rather just post and nobody reply?
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Lol arrogantly jumped in on a message board suggesting Euro 96? You're a precious little flower at times lolz would you rather just post and nobody reply?
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No, I would rather people read posts and reply to what is actually said in them, and if they have made a mistake hold their hands up and admit it
 
Pope John XXIII said:
No, I would rather people read posts and reply to what is actually said in them, and if they have made a mistake hold their hands up and admit it
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You claimed no England team has produced a display on the level of Germany beating an aging mediocre Portugal side by 2 goals. I pointed out we beat a better Dutch side by 3. Lolz
 
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