Don’t shoot the messenger

[Will_Shahane]

I get you don't deny there was a cushion ... it was the dismissive reaction to it that I disagreed with ....."not that big". It was big enough to cover a poor run from Richardson, and then a worse one under Toure.

That’s the point though. The cushion wasn’t that big (around 6 points), but it was “somehow” still enough to leave us only a few points from safety currently.

In normal circumstances you’d expect a team with only a 6 point cushion to be cut adrift from safety if they went on a run of 1 win from their next 16 games from that point onwards. In other words, in normal circumstances you’d expect the teams around you to gain enough points during that time to cut you adrift.

This implies the other teams’ failure to do so is an exceptional circumstance, so the word “somehow” in that context is appropriate.

It’s an argument on semantics so doesn’t matter too much, but KDZ was right to use that word.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

I get you don't deny there was a cushion ... it was the dismissive reaction to it that I disagreed with ....."not that big". It was big enough to cover a poor run from Richardson, and then a worse one under Toure.



I don't see how it can only be a comment on one of the two reasons for us being where we are. (See, there's the dismissive bit again). For me, it has to cover both elements. If you're only talking about our demise post Toure, then I'd agree with you, but if you're going back to October, then our previous points total has to play a part.



As I said in an earlier post, I get that you don't want to give him any credit, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it.

I'm not dismissing the cushion Richardson had initially built up, or criticising it. My original point was somehow our opposition has been so bad that they have failed to overhaul it and cut us adrift despite having so many games they really should have.

The point is the idea we are not able to compete with the bottom sides is wrong as there are a lot of bad sides.

 

[moonay]

That’s the point though. The cushion wasn’t that big (around 6 points), but it was “somehow” still enough to leave us only a few points from safety currently.

In normal circumstances you’d expect a team with only a 6 point cushion to be cut adrift from safety if they went on a run of 1 win from their next 16 games from that point onwards. In other words, in normal circumstances you’d expect the teams around you to gain enough points during that time to cut you adrift.

This implies the other teams’ failure to do so is an exceptional circumstance, so the word “somehow” in that context is appropriate.

It’s an argument on semantics so doesn’t matter too much, but KDZ was right to use that word.

Sorry Will, but I think you're missing the point ... which is the fact that we've only picked up 3 further points from the games where Toure has been in charge.

The cushion that Richardson developed covered his bad run ... and then a significant part of Toure's also.

My wider point was that though I acknowledged the poor form of the other teams, KDZ (and you also maybe? ) seemingly didn't want to give any credit to Richardson for the cushion.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

No, it's also a stupid analogy because Leam was a terrific manager for us but people like you wanted him gone because the football wasn't prime Barca

To be fair there is a he'll of a lot of middle ground between the very negative and ineffective hoof and hope we were playing most of the time and prime Barcelona.

I think most were looking for the type of football we showed we were capable of against Blackburn. Hardly sexy pass and move but more on the deck and more positive than what was our standard approach.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Sorry Will, but I think you're missing the point ... which is the fact that we've only picked up 3 further points from the games where Toure has been in charge.





The cushion that Richardson developed covered his bad run ... and then a significant part of Toure's also.















My wider point was that though I acknowledged the poor form of the other teams, KDZ (and you also maybe? ) seemingly didn't want to give any credit to Richardson for the cushion.

I think you are arguing against a point I wasn't trying to make, Will seems to have understood the point I was trying to make. All i was trying to say in my original post was somehow the other teams have failed to make us pay by being so bad themselves.

 

[moonay]

I think you are arguing against a point I wasn't trying to make, Will seems to have understood the point I was trying to make. All i was trying to say in my original post was somehow the other teams have failed to make us pay by being so bad themselves.

I get - and got - that KDZ ...and said so ... but whether you accept it or not, your post came across as dismissive toward our early season points accumulation under Richardson ... in my opinion of course.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

I get - and got - that KDZ ...and said so ... but whether you accept it or not, your post came across as dismissive toward our early season points accumulation under Richardson ... in my opinion of course.

If it did it wasn't the intention.

 

[Made in Wigan]

Utter crap

Are you marking your own homework again?

 

[Will_Shahane]

Sorry Will, but I think you're missing the point ... which is the fact that we've only picked up 3 further points from the games where Toure has been in charge.

The cushion that Richardson developed covered his bad run ... and then a significant part of Toure's also.

My wider point was that though I acknowledged the poor form of the other teams, KDZ (and you also maybe? ) seemingly didn't want to give any credit to Richardson for the cushion.

I don’t think I’ve missed the point.

Saying you wouldn’t expect the 6 pt cushion to insure you against being cut adrift after a subsequent run of 1 win in 16 games doesn’t = saying Richardson doesn’t deserve credit for establishing the 6 pt cushion in the first place.

I (and I think KDZ) have only argued the former point, not the latter one.

 

[Ooohaaahdonniepage]

Sorry Will, but I think you're missing the point ... which is the fact that we've only picked up 3 further points from the games where Toure has been in charge.

The cushion that Richardson developed covered his bad run ... and then a significant part of Toure's also.

My wider point was that though I acknowledged the poor form of the other teams, KDZ (and you also maybe? ) seemingly didn't want to give any credit to Richardson for the cushion.

Isnt it two points?

 

[Yon Mon]

According to someone I work with. A young football manager when interviewing for the job has to give a power point show to let the owners/ directors know what he's all about.

They also have to take a training session to see how they react to the players.

So if Kolo had to do all of this then what was Talal, Mal and Co watching?

 

[Lazysid]

Yes, and Harold Shipman was a terrific doctor.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618320891242491905

 

[hindleymonwafc]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618320891242491905

Yes, I've seen that bunch of boneheads on the duggie bridge selling Mudhutters that nobody ever buys or Kendrick who thinks a scoop is when he goes to Lewis's.

Losers the lot of um.

 

[Made in Wigan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1618320891242491905

Two ridiculous comparisons, the latter certainly distasteful. Not seen the Ferguson one, but I’m sure someone on here also suggested Toure could be next Arteta.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

According to someone I work with. A young football manager when interviewing for the job has to give a power point show to let the owners/ directors know what he's all about.



They also have to take a training session to see how they react to the players.



So if Kolo had to do all of this then what was Talal, Mal and Co watching?

Kolo must be a beast in Microsoft Office.

 

[Frankel Bucks]

No, it's also a stupid analogy because Leam was a terrific manager for us but people like you wanted him gone because the football wasn't prime Barca

If Sam Allardyce came in there would be no relegation. It would be hoofed up to Fletcher and Keane with a couple of powerful midfielders brought in and nobody would complain because there would be no relegation. Richardson was doing just fine and i guarantee wouldn't have lost 10 on the spin. I would even wager (if i could in hindsight) that he would have got more than 4 points too and be out of the relegation zone. If Carlsberg did making a balls of a season then the board........

 

[moonay]

I don’t think I’ve missed the point.

Saying you wouldn’t expect the 6 pt cushion to insure you against being cut adrift after a subsequent run of 1 win in 16 games doesn’t = saying Richardson doesn’t deserve credit for establishing the 6 pt cushion in the first place.

I (and I think KDZ) have only argued the former point, not the latter one.

Again Will, you can't measure the cushion against 16 games ... but hey, it doesn't matter, does it ... KDZ has said he didn't mean to be dismissive of where Richardson had taken us to (before the slide), so fair enough,

 

[moonay]

Isnt it two points?

Toure's got 3 !

 

[moonay]

Yes, I've seen that bunch of boneheads on the duggie bridge selling Mudhutters that nobody ever buys or Kendrick who thinks a scoop is when he goes to Lewis's.

Losers the lot of um.

 

[Will_Shahane]

Again Will, you can't measure the cushion against 16 games ... but hey, it doesn't matter, does it ... KDZ has said he didn't mean to be dismissive of where Richardson had taken us to (before the slide), so fair enough,

I think we’re just not on the same wavelength on this one mate. As you say, it’s been clarified now anyway. Agree to disagree