Derby, relegation and points deduction. | Vital Football

Derby, relegation and points deduction.

loudmouthblue

loudmouthblue

Vital Football Hero
Derby have had two separate points deductions this season for a) going into administration and b) breeching EFL rules. Am I right in thinking if they do not reach a required points level with either the 12 points(admin) or the 9 points(rule break) they will carry one of these deductions forward to next season, they are on 31 points now with 3 to play so can get a maximum of 40 points with just the administration penalty taken into account or 43 points with just the rule break taken into consideration, fourth from bottom reading are currently on 41 points.

If we had not achieved the required points in 2019/20, the 12 point deduction would have been carried over until last season, will the EFL let this slide or is there a specific rule to protect Derby from suffering this outcome.
 
loudmouthblue said:
Derby have had two separate points deductions this season for a) going into administration and b) breeching EFL rules. Am I right in thinking if they do not reach a required points level with either the 12 points(admin) or the 9 points(rule break) they will carry one of these deductions forward to next season, they are on 31 points now with 3 to play so can get a maximum of 40 points with just the administration penalty taken into account or 43 points with just the rule break taken into consideration, fourth from bottom reading are currently on 41 points.

If we had not achieved the required points in 2019/20, the 12 point deduction would have been carried over until last season, will the EFL let this slide or is there a specific rule to protect Derby from suffering this outcome.
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I think if you go into administration early enough the penalty applies to that season with no threat of carry over regardless of where you finish. I dont think Derby will face any deductions next season assuming they are successfully taken over.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
I think if you go into administration early enough the penalty applies to that season with no threat of carry over regardless of where you finish. I dont think Derby will face any deductions next season assuming they are successfully taken over.
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I am not sure, they would have been relegated anyway today without the 12 point deduction so if they are allowed to keep the 12 points deduction this season they will not have been punished for going into administration, that cannot be right surely.
 
Their points deductions apply to this season. However there is a possibility they could incur a further 15 point penalty, to be applied next season, if they don’t pay creditors at least 25% in the pound when exiting admin. The current preferred bidder has apparently said he’s only willing to offer 10% and is looking to negotiate with the efl - though given the legal claims from other clubs against Derby I suspect they’ll be playing it by the book.
 
loudmouthblue said:
I am not sure, they would have been relegated anyway today without the 12 point deduction so if they are allowed to keep the 12 points deduction this season they will not have been punished for going into administration, that cannot be right surely.
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I get what you're saying but surely the points deduction should count as 1 penalty.
So if Derby had somehow stayed up with a 21 point penalty the efl can't then carry it over to next season.
 
From what I remember the administration rules are that there is a cutoff point so clubs can't abuse the rules like Leeds United did in 2007. I don't believe the rules have changed, so any team that goes into administration before that cutoff point will have that points deduction that same season, no matter how many points they accumulate that season.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Their points deductions apply to this season. However there is a possibility they could incur a further 15 point penalty, to be applied next season, if they don’t pay creditors at least 25% in the pound when exiting admin. The current preferred bidder has apparently said he’s only willing to offer 10% and is looking to negotiate with the efl - though given the legal claims from other clubs against Derby I suspect they’ll be playing it by the book.
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Is the 15 point deduction applied if they are still in administration when next season starts, by not paying creditors their 25% aren't they subject to a different points penalty.
 
loudmouthblue said:
Is the 15 point deduction applied if they are still in administration when next season starts, by not paying creditors their 25% aren't they subject to a different points penalty.
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I think to get to the point of failing to pay 25% it would be after a takeover was concluded and the new owners opted to take the penalty to avoid paying out or they were unable to find a buyer.

So I think either way it's just one 15 point penalty.
 
loudmouthblue said:
Is the 15 point deduction applied if they are still in administration when next season starts, by not paying creditors their 25% aren't they subject to a different points penalty.
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I don’t think so, it only applies when exiting admin if they don’t pay the requisite amount to creditors. Some suggestion he could pay 35% over 3 years and avoid a penalty.

I get the sense he is like the Spanish lot were for us given what PNE said. Lot of derby fans can see through him and are not happy, the other half are just desperate and want it to go through. Sounds spookily familiar. Made his money on crypto currency by all accounts and so I’m sure the efl will be checking the provenance of it. Also won’t be getting the ground or training ground and suggestions he’s going to struggle to prove funding over the next few years to satisfy the efl. From all accounts the administrators are that desperate though as liquidation is a real possibility.
 
He’s the new Bassini this fella. The administrators should have heeded the warnings given by Knob End when he tried to buy them a few months back - though I get they were desperate. Mike Ashley is interested so hopefully it’s not the end of the road for them if this deal doesn’t get done.
 
Made in Wigan said:
He’s the new Bassini this fella. The administrators should have heeded the warnings given by Knob End when he tried to buy them a few months back - though I get they were desperate. Mike Ashley is interested so hopefully it’s not the end of the road for them if this deal doesn’t get done.
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TBH I wouldn't wish Ashley on my worst enemy, but if he saves them from oblivion then good luck.
 
Maybe wrong but can a club start a new season if in administration the previous season?
The season starts early this year so if the takeover deal falls through it could mean more serious trouble for Derby.
 
It sounds like Derby fans and some of the bidding parties have been very critical of the administrators decisiin making and behaviour. It seems like the way our admins were maybe wasn't unusual but the standard.
 
jeffs right said:
Derby are a little like Bolton were when in admin. They make it up as they go along. Remember Bolton not getting points deducted for cancelling games.
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That was the curtailed 19/20 season, when they started the season with youth players and wouldnt play them three times a week for player protection. Bolton were relegated on PPG (and even voted to curtail the season and relegate themselves). I dare say that if they had stayed up, and the season had finished normally, then there would have been an EFL investigation and a punishment dished out. As it was, they had already been relegated and any points deduction for non-fulfilment could not be carried over to the following season, so it wouldnt have made any difference.
 
pie eater said:
That was the curtailed 19/20 season, when they started the season with youth players and wouldnt play them three times a week for player protection. Bolton were relegated on PPG (and even voted to curtail the season and relegate themselves). I dare say that if they had stayed up, and the season had finished normally, then there would have been an EFL investigation and a punishment dished out. As it was, they had already been relegated and any points deduction for non-fulfilment could not be carried over to the following season, so it wouldnt have made any difference.
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There were 2 games they failed to fulfil - one was at the end of the 18/19 season & the other at the start of the 19/20 season so it wasn't about being able (or not) to carry punishments over to the following season. They were also actually docked 5 points (2 for the 18/19 game & 3 for the 19/20 game) albeit this was suspended for 18 months
One of the arguments they used (particularly in relation to the 19/20 game) was that the FA's own regulations state that players of a certain age are only allowed to play so many hours of football a week & the game they pulled out of would have broken these regulations.
I can't remember the full reasons the independent commission decided to suspend the points deduction & half of the fines but it wasn't anything to do with them already being relegated
 
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