Debenhams to shut Chatham branch

[chris who]

Chatham high street is already at a very low point .But I can't help feeling that the confirmation of Debenhams shutting down the Chatham branch is very much the last straw for the beleaguered high street.When I remember what it was like forty or so years ago before the closure of the Dockyard it makes me sad to realise just how low it is likely to sink in the post buy it online era.

 

[ThreeSixes]

Site for a new Gillingham FC Megastore?

 

[shotshy]

It looks like all the Kent stores are closing except Gravesend.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Chatham high street is already at a very low point .But I can't help feeling that the confirmation of Debenhams shutting down the Chatham branch is very much the last straw for the beleaguered high street.When I remember what it was like forty or so years ago before the closure of the Dockyard it makes me sad to realise just how low it is likely to sink in the post buy it online era.

It's not just the online era.The writing was on the wall when Bluewater opened - a vast array of shops and eateries with free parking; in Medway they'd make you pay for parking 24 hours a day if they could, I'm sure.

It wasn't just the Dockyard closing either; previously, there was a vast military presence along with major manufacturing in the towns. Before Allders [now Debenhams] came along, there was Leonards in Rochester, Featherstones, Bates [later Bentalls now Argos], BHS, M&S and Woolworths [plus the one in Strood].

The Medway Towns and the retail businesses haven't moved with the times; go into Debenhams and it's like going back 15 or twenty years. The only 'store' that has survived is Argos because it has moved with the times. Medway has a large student population but you wouldn't know it. At this rate, Strood will overtake Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham as the leading retail area and it's closer than any to Bluewater.

Look how Gillingham Football Club has seen its fortunes wane over the years; if there are 7 or eight thousand there for the Charlton game it will be seen as a result. In years gone by, the match would have attracted fifteen thousand or more.

All the major retailers are suffering, even M&S and John Lewis, and they know they have to survive by embracing the online shopper and making the shops more of an experience - what the fuck that means I'm not quite sure; Borders tried to do something different with their bookshops, ie sofas and coffee shops but they went under. Where do you go now if you want to buy a CD or DVD? A supermarket and now there's not a single HMV store in central London.

Chatham will carry on sinking; it'll go like Strood before the Commercial Road retail units were built, bad days ahead.

 

[Therealwaldo]

If it was just about changes in shopping habits you would expect to see a similar decline on the continent. You don't to anything like the same extent. You therefore need to look at some of the structural costs such as rent and rates that seem to be so much more of a factor in the UK. That's not to mention a sudden and unexpected fall in the value of sterling. I wonder what on earth could have caused that ?

 

[chris who]

It's not just the online era.The writing was on the wall when Bluewater opened - a vast array of shops and eateries with free parking; in Medway they'd make you pay for parking 24 hours a day if they could, I'm sure.

It wasn't just the Dockyard closing either; previously, there was a vast military presence along with major manufacturing in the towns. Before Allders [now Debenhams] came along, there was Leonards in Rochester, Featherstones, Bates [later Bentalls now Argos], BHS, M&S and Woolworths [plus the one in Strood].

The Medway Towns and the retail businesses haven't moved with the times; go into Debenhams and it's like going back 15 or twenty years. The only 'store' that has survived is Argos because it has moved with the times. Medway has a large student population but you wouldn't know it. At this rate, Strood will overtake Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham as the leading retail area and it's closer than any to Bluewater.

Look how Gillingham Football Club has seen its fortunes wane over the years; if there are 7 or eight thousand there for the Charlton game it will be seen as a result. In years gone by, the match would have attracted fifteen thousand or more.

All the major retailers are suffering, even M&S and John Lewis, and they know they have to survive by embracing the online shopper and making the shops more of an experience - what the fuck that means I'm not quite sure; Borders tried to do something different with their bookshops, ie sofas and coffee shops but they went under. Where do you go now if you want to buy a CD or DVD? A supermarket and now there's not a single HMV store in central London.

Chatham will carry on sinking; it'll go like Strood before the Commercial Road retail units were built, bad days ahead.

Some fair points.I worked in both Chatham high street back in the good times.When Chatham was one of the most go to shopping centres in the South East of England let alone Kent.But I agree times have changed. Part of the reason is that all retailers almost have under valued good staff at all levels.
Debenhams I agree were one of the worst for that .I worked in a Debenhams runtil store although not for Debenhams themselves for a few years .The investment even in a prime location in London was very low.For example they failed to provide air conditioning in a basement shopping area with low ceilings where temperatures often were at a intolerable level.
In Chatham they had a beautiful building in my opinion. But it never really was able to get enough punters through the door.Poor buying lack of real street appeal were key along with a very fragmented store that lacked a appeal of its own.Without a replacement which almost certainly will not happen in fear for the future of Chatham. It is in part as you say the Bluewaters of the county that have impacted on it as much as the move to on line shopping.
Chatham has been slowly declining over many years this is yet another devastating blow.One that I simply can't see it ever recovering from.
I am just glad hearing loss meant I left retail around 20 years ago .The next twenty years will see it very different .I really fear for jobs in this sector of our economy.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Bluewaters of the county that have impacted on it as much as the move to on line shopping

But the shops, food outlets and cinemas in Bluewater are all thriving. Maybe it's the variety and choice long gone in Chatham that makes Bluewater so popular and Hempstead Valley as well to a lesser extent.

 

[shotshy]

We own two ladies fashion & accessory shops and both are doing very well.
Independents seem to be doing much better than the bland chains.

It's about sourcing the right good quality items, good merchandising and selling at the right price.
Most of our business is repeat because of our excellent level of customer service.
Being a small trader means that we can be flexible and respond immediately, when necessary.

Our two main fashion suppliers are from Sweden and Denmark and we have had no supply issues and nor do we expect any. The only annoying thing is that their VAT level is at 25%

Waldo is absolutely correct in his point of it doesn't seem to have affected the continent so much.
It doesn't seem to have affected market towns either, just the large one.
Towns like West Malling and Headcorn are thriving.

 

[chris who]

If it was just about changes in shopping habits you would expect to see a similar decline on the continent. You don't to anything like the same extent. You therefore need to look at some of the structural costs such as rent and rates that seem to be so much more of a factor in the UK. That's not to mention a sudden and unexpected fall in the value of sterling. I wonder what on earth could have caused that ?

A interesting point about the continent it is very true that there are many examples of places not that far away where they have booming high streets. Where walking around shops can be fun.if am sorry to say I don't see that in the UK .Valuing staff and giving them real training and public taking pride in their town I am sure is partly the big difference.

 

[chris who]

We own two ladies fashion & accessory shops and both are doing very well.
Independents seem to be doing much better than the bland chains.

It's about sourcing the right good quality items, good merchandising and selling at the right price.
Most of our business is repeat because of our excellent level of customer service.
Being a small trader means that we can be flexible and respond immediately, when necessary.

Our two main fashion suppliers are from Sweden and Denmark and we have had no supply issues and nor do we expect any. The only annoying thing is that their VAT level is at 25%

Waldo is absolutely correct in his point of it doesn't seem to have affected the continent so much.
It doesn't seem to have affected market towns either, just the large one.
Towns like West Malling and Headcorn are thriving.

Pleased you are doing well keep it up .i am sure that in part the other big difference to the chains is the staff in your shops have far greater input and thus achieve better results. They also i am sure take more pride in their part in the business.

 

[shotshy]

Pleased you are doing well keep it up .i am sure that in part the other big difference to the chains is the staff in your shops have far greater input and thus achieve better results. They also i am sure take more pride in their part in the business.

I'm very lucky with my staff.
They are highly valued.

 

[Lark]

The Canterbury Debenhams goes across 3 buildings I believe so will leave a huge void once it’s shut - probably to be filled with more coffee shops or cafes etc!
The Ashford one was quite new and built to help regenerate that end of the town, I guess it didn’t work.
The one in Folkestone was also a large store and focal point of the main shopping street - how times change.

 

[chris who]

I'm very lucky with my staff.
They are highly valued.

Lucky I am not so sure as in football you make your own luck if that is what you want to call it .If you value them and I don't mean just in money terms. They will almost certainly return that to you.Most retail shops put little to no value on staff .This is of course well known by staff .So they if they are interested enough they will always respond to good management.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Waldo is absolutely correct in his point of it doesn't seem to have affected the continent so much.
It doesn't seem to have affected market towns either, just the large one.
Towns like West Malling and Headcorn are thriving.

One former business in West Malling puts another slant on it:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/malling/news/family-business-to-shut-after-140-years-196798/

Living in Headcorn, I would also warn you that some of my neighbours would have your guts for garters. There is a big sign as you enter "Headcorn - Village NOT a Town", but with the amount of building going on, I would have to say you will soon be right.

Not sure where the drop in sterling comes in to it as it has no affect of domestic trade and actually makes shopping cheaper for foreign tourists. Imported stock may become more expensive but there is always the option of buying a bigger percentage from domestic suppliers.

It does not sound like it has had an adverse effect on your business, Shotshy.

 

[valenciagill]

Gillingham had Lefevres and the Co-op department stores.
Gillingham , like Chatham and other places , suffers from a chronic lack of parking.
Seeing as most people insist on driving everywhere they go , it's hardly surprising that town centres are dying.

 

[Therealwaldo]

One former business in West Malling puts another slant on it:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/malling/news/family-business-to-shut-after-140-years-196798/

Living in Headcorn, I would also warn you that some of my neighbours would have your guts for garters. There is a big sign as you enter "Headcorn - Village NOT a Town", but with the amount of building going on, I would have to say you will soon be right.

Not sure where the drop in sterling comes in to it as it has no affect of domestic trade and actually makes shopping cheaper for foreign tourists. Imported stock may become more expensive but there is always the option of buying a bigger percentage from domestic suppliers.

It does not sound like it has had an adverse effect on your business, Shotshy.

Any analysis of where the goods for sale in shops comes from shows that a substantial amount comes from overseas. That's why the exchange rate is significant. Virtually every major shop closure has quoted exchange rates as one of the factors.

 

[jokerman]

In Duluth, the downtown/city center died years ago as people migrated to the malls and free parking. It has revived but with high end outlets for the aware/self-aware with the means. Now the mall is a low end hang out with two of its three anchor stores shut. I think online shopping is doing much of the damage.

 

[Baghdad_Rob]

A interesting point about the continent it is very true that there are many examples of places not that far away where they have booming high streets. Where walking around shops can be fun.if am sorry to say I don't see that in the UK .Valuing staff and giving them real training and public taking pride in their town I am sure is partly the big difference.

Depending on the country in question then part of that might also be influenced by population density. From my experience in Scandinavia, a big Bluewater type complex would only be a drivable distance to a few small and medium towns and not the millions of potential customers that you'd get in the UK. This seems to be increasingly true the further you get from the main big cities.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Depending on the country in question then part of that might also be influenced by population density. From my experience in Scandinavia, a big Bluewater type complex would only be a drivable distance to a few small and medium towns and not the millions of potential customers that you'd get in the UK. This seems to be increasingly true the further you get from the main big cities.

Sweden has a population of 9m and Norway about 5m. So I doubt a Bluewater would survive in either.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

If it was just about changes in shopping habits you would expect to see a similar decline on the continent. You don't to anything like the same extent. You therefore need to look at some of the structural costs such as rent and rates that seem to be so much more of a factor in the UK. That's not to mention a sudden and unexpected fall in the value of sterling. I wonder what on earth could have caused that ?

Those continental folk like to bargain but you can’t do that online.