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Coronavirus vaccine

Apparently 12% of Israeli population already received first jab. That would equate to about 8 million in Britain. How many have we done, given that we are world beating, exceptional and were the first to pass thevaccine for use (thanks to Brexit according to Rees Mogg)?

It is an incredibly difficult job to roll out the vaccination program but I wonder how much advance planning went into the operation. For 9 months we've waited for this opportunity. We've had plenty of time to train people and work out a plan. I'm genuinely wondering what has been put in place to make it as efficient as possible.

As i posted on this site months ago the worlds largest vaccine manufacturer in india has been producing the oxford vaccine for months taking a chance on it being approved. Oxford and India's own vaccine have now been approved and it turns out that their distribution plan and recruitment has been in place for months as well.
They have been running a national rehearsal (war gaming) this week preparing to vaccinate 350m people in a few months period of time.

Meanwhile the uk and us piss around as they have with every other thing to do with advance planning for supply and distribution for hospital beds, ppe, ventilators and staff. This should be on a war footing using army planners.
 
Apparently 12% of Israeli population already received first jab. That would equate to about 8 million in Britain. How many have we done, given that we are world beating, exceptional and were the first to pass thevaccine for use (thanks to Brexit according to Rees Mogg)?

It is an incredibly difficult job to roll out the vaccination program but I wonder how much advance planning went into the operation. For 9 months we've waited for this opportunity. We've had plenty of time to train people and work out a plan. I'm genuinely wondering what has been put in place to make it as efficient as possible.
I hope I'm wrong, but I've got a feeling very little has been done to prepare for the roll-out. And we are perhaps about to find out.

I contacted St Johns about 6 weeks ago to see if I could help(I'm furloughed), but they advised to check the website in January as they had little information at that point. I just rechecked - they're currently not recruiting the general public.

Although the roll-out won't be simple, we have vast resources to undertake it. Millions unemployed or furloughed, public sector workers who are currently less beneficial to the country in their present roles, retired medical professionals, students.

I think currently about 5 million doses of the Oxford vaccine have been produced, bottled and are ready to go, with about another 10 million by the end of this month. I hope that after all the basic stuff that's gone wrong so far we can finally turn the corner and really get on top of this. It is hope though - not expectation from me.
 
I hope I'm wrong, but I've got a feeling very little has been done to prepare for the roll-out. And we are perhaps about to find out.

I contacted St Johns about 6 weeks ago to see if I could help(I'm furloughed), but they advised to check the website in January as they had little information at that point. I just rechecked - they're currently not recruiting the general public.

Although the roll-out won't be simple, we have vast resources to undertake it. Millions unemployed or furloughed, public sector workers who are currently less beneficial to the country in their present roles, retired medical professionals, students.

I think currently about 5 million doses of the Oxford vaccine have been produced, bottled and are ready to go, with about another 10 million by the end of this month. I hope that after all the basic stuff that's gone wrong so far we can finally turn the corner and really get on top of this. It is hope though - not expectation from me.


Seems you were right to be concerned.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13614500/volunteer-army-roll-out-covid-vaccine-not-recruited/

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-h...e-doses-a-day-defence-secretary-idUKKBN2950R8


A quote from defence Secretary Ben Wallace on Thursday: “I’ve also got plans for up to 250 teams of mobile medically-trained personnel who could go out and administer the vaccine around the country - that would be over 100,000 a day they could potentially deliver if that is requested by the NHS (National Health Service),”

Absolute fucking shambles. This should have been organised weeks if not months ago.
 
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How terrible is that.
Before allowing someone to inject me with a new vaccine, they have to prove they are qualified to carry out the procedure.

I had already booked an appointment with the shelve packer at Tesco for Monday.

Having to have Level 1 in preventing radicalisation to be able to administer a jab?
 
Having said that we have the 3rd best covid vaccination rate in the world as it stands. Only Israel and Bahrain are higher.
 
There are 15.5m people eligible for a flu Vaccine every year, I have never seen this cause a major problem.
The problem with Covid19 is that you have the isolation issue to contend with, not only do people have to be kept separate, the room used has to be decontaminated after every patient.
 
I've just heard that a further delay is because there is a shortage of glass vials and packaging ffs!!!

We've had over 9 months since lockdown to prepare for this. They had hoped that a vaccine might be ready as early as last September and yet still haven't got enougg of the materials that could have been on the production line since last April.

Absolutely f###ing useless. Don't they believe in planning? Are they capable of planning? There are many difficulties in dealing with this crisis but producing enough glass vials and packaging over a period of 9 months really should have been dealt with.

Can anyone seriously imagine this level of incompetence happening under a Thatcher or Blair government?

Schools and businesses shut for longer, more economic decline and deaths because of this.
 
The problem with Covid19 is that you have the isolation issue to contend with, not only do people have to be kept separate, the room used has to be decontaminated after every patient.

Is that true ?

Do they decontaminate every part of the testing centre after each test ? I genuinely don't know.

My doctors surgery did a very effective flu vaccine this winter. You got a time ticket (bit like at a theme park). You tuned up and joined a socially distanced queue, walked into the reception, got directed to one of four tables where a nurse stabbed you with the vaccine - you walked out through a different door.

Scale it up with mass vaccination centre - outside to help with reducing the risk of any spread.

We could use the testing centres - tests in the morning, drive through vaccinations through afternoon and into the evening. Use the armed forces medics, dentists, pharmacists, phlebotomist, anyone with experience of injecting.

This just needs organising. The armed forces are the best to do that. Keep politicians well away from it.
 
Could it be that were still dealing with the over 85s? Many are in care homes, and a lot can't leave their homes. Maybe it shouldn't have been left to the NHS... The track and trace seems to work very well for what I observe. It's the people who tell her to f off when they've been tested positive that make it sound like it's a shambles. Not sticking up for the government, just that we don't always have the best end of the line user in this world!
 
I've just heard that a further delay is because there is a shortage of glass vials and packaging ffs!!!

We've had over 9 months since lockdown to prepare for this. They had hoped that a vaccine might be ready as early as last September and yet still haven't got enough of the materials that could have been on the production line since last April.

If you do a bit of googling then you will find that the shortage of glass vials is a worldwide problem. As per PPE equipment earlier last year, you have all countries scrambling to get hold of any glass vials that they can.

Medical glass vials is made from Borosilicate Glass which is chemically different from Soda-Lime glass which is the common sort of glass found.

Borosilicate glass is made from a slightly more complex process. It isn't a straight forward case of getting anyone who makes glass products to suddenly start to make vials to a medical standard. I don't know if the reported fact that the Pfizer vaccine needs to be stored in a temperature of around minus 70 would fall outside of common Lime-Soda glass temperature parameters.

I did also read that there were a lack of cargo plans who had the capacity to transport sufficent levels of sand and other materials around the world. I'm not sure how easy it is to build hundreds of cargo planes within a few months in order to get the raw materials to the manufacturers.
 
The flu vaccination programme works well but the numbers can mislead us into thinking the covid vaccination programme to be easier than it really is. As a country we vaccinate a higher proportion of our elderly than most other countries, which is a good start. The elderly are more motivated (death is closer), are more likely to be registered with a doctor and in contact with the surgery, have time on their hands and are the most recorded demograph, pensions, electoral roll, likely to have lived in the same dwelling for a while etc, etc.

It's easy to go along with the general idea that computers, the internet, the modern world mean that we have records on everything and will not be defeated by data. We are going to have to locate, identify, invite, record and physically vaccinate some people that we rarely take any notice of. Many have incomplete records of any kind, lack any reliable identification of who they are and move regularly. That's before we get to the groups who actively avoid the life the rest of us live, travellers of every kind, fundementals religous and otherwise, those without papers and criminals. The mentally ill, we don't treat and aren't aware of , those with learning difficulties, drug and alcohol abusers. We won't get everyone but we need to get most.

The army and logistics experts can help with the practicalities but I really do worry about the data and admin. We are great at dealing with customers, the willing and the motivated but there are an awful lot of people that we haven't wanted on board for a good while. We have a degraded local system that can be revived to work well but It 's not just a matter of counting the weeks till we're done. We (I don't just mean the |UK) aren't very good at actually doing stuff an more. Good at aspiration, assertion, sloganising, policy statements, statistics to prove a point, bluster and self congratulation is our home ground. We are sure to blunder a bit but fingers crossed the real people, who do stuff, will somehow get us through.
 
Is that true ?

Do they decontaminate every part of the testing centre after each test ? I genuinely don't know.

My doctors surgery did a very effective flu vaccine this winter. You got a time ticket (bit like at a theme park). You tuned up and joined a socially distanced queue, walked into the reception, got directed to one of four tables where a nurse stabbed you with the vaccine - you walked out through a different door.

The first medical center that is worked out to be a hotspot for a regional spike and people will complain that government guidelines are insufficent.

The risk adversives of the world like Chris Who would probably argue that the procedure cited above is still highly risky if you have more than 10 people in the same room / hallway queuing.

The first vaccine is supposed to take up to 2 weeks to get fully up to speed so if someone who has covid is asymptomatic and they cough on their hand, touches the frame of a door and the next person touches the same spot then you could potentially infect a load of people with the real thing before the vaccine has any impact.

Since Covid is considered by some to be a Doomday scenario whereas we have lived with Flu forever, I think procedures will be motivated by a sense of "better to be extra safe than sorry".
 
A monumental effort, no doubt about it but skewed somewhat. The country is a lot smaller and less populated and attitudes towards getting the vaccine are swayed by promises made by the government. (Have the vaccine and you will be exempt from any isolation/quarantine/masks etc even though having the vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus)
All anti vax social media posts and publishing of misinformation is banned allowing the programme to go ahead unfettered.
There is also a question of morality in that no Palestinians under Israeli occupation are getting the vaccine so not an ideal programme by any stretch.
Good points Nobby. However, be careful not to point out the disgraceful policy of not giving vaccines to Palestinians for fear of being labelled anti Semitic. We know what happens to people like that.
:-)
 
Nitram - it's not about waiting for the vaccine to be approved, it's about being prepared to administer it once it was. We have had months to prepare to get ready to inject, yet this seems to have been wasted. Absolute fiasco, cannot see how you can defend the indefensible!

You are the second most miserable person on this forum
I've just heard that a further delay is because there is a shortage of glass vials and packaging ffs!!!

We've had over 9 months since lockdown to prepare for this. They had hoped that a vaccine might be ready as early as last September and yet still haven't got enougg of the materials that could have been on the production line since last April.

Absolutely f###ing useless. Don't they believe in planning? Are they capable of planning? There are many difficulties in dealing with this crisis but producing enough glass vials and packaging over a period of 9 months really should have been dealt with.

Can anyone seriously imagine this level of incompetence happening under a Thatcher or Blair government?

Schools and businesses shut for longer, more economic decline and deaths because of this.
And you are the first

What has happened to you? You seem very unhappy, every post is negative and whining
 
The risk adversives of the world like Chris Who would probably argue that the procedure cited above is still highly risky if you have more than 10 people in the same room / hallway queuing.
.

Life is full of risk. Those who are at increased risk may need a more closely controlled environment like a surgery. For the general population we can survive a drive through or walk through environment where we queue up and get a jab in the arm.

No system will be perfect but lack of action due to an element of risk just leads to inaction.

The increased use of "pop up" testing stations just needs to be replicated with pop up vaccination stations.

Don't forget part of this is about herd immunity for the country. The immunisation campaign might not be 100% perfect but the key is to get it started if we want this to be over by the summer.