Compare Sutton V Appleton | Page 2 | Vital Football

Compare Sutton V Appleton

If he's a very good coach , how does he fail as a manager, in my opinion he runs his squad fairly well considering injuries. I think we will be alright for the rest of season, and as he said the other day he'll sort the injury situation with those players it applys to.And taking into account the bronze sponsorships we have been getting in recent weeks , there build up of cash in reserve from these sponsors could come into contention with the budget. There will i'm sure be big changes ahead for the new season.
( I'm no financial bod, just an opinion.)He's a good Mngr and at least certainly not a whinger at any price.

come on boys
 
Mattytindraws said:
Coming up with an effective strategy to stop us losing 1-0 at home. Coming up with an effective strategy to stop us giving away really really poor goals from defensive mistakes. Never really trying anything differently to reverse a now 2 year long utterly dreadful home record. You can see the players can play, but the collective isn’t equal to the sum of the parts.
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What has any of that got to do with overall management? You could level those complaints at coaching - though "coming up with an effective strategy to stop us losing 1-0 at home" isn't even a strategy, it's something that happened despite the overall flow of the game., and that happens quite a lot in football.

I'd like to know, ideally from @trisimp, who made the statement, but from anyone else, where he fails specifically as a "manager"? Which qualities is he short of?

There's a reason for asking, because I'd also like to know who should be the "manager"?

I'm guessing that if we finish between, say, 12-16th we're probably in the zone in which we expect to end up given the club's outlays. Any better and we over-achieve; any lower and it's an underachievement. Relegation is a failure.

Appleton will leave soon enough because of good results or bad ones, so you have to consider carefully who is going to take over given that the club has a specific policy. Many managers are not suitable for that policy.

At the moment I don't see who you would like to bring in who's going to be an improvement.

I don't say that lightly because I'm in the same position as a couple of others here who support two teams, and I fully supported the change of manager during this season at my other side.

I don't with Lincoln, because I don't think the club would attract anyone better, but I'd like to hear it properly backed-up why he's "not a manager" and I don't mean because we've lost more games than we'd hoped.
 
Yeah it's not the same as this general coach v manager point, but the game management isn't right. Yes we dominated the first half but we huffed and puffed and had a lot more in the second without really creating a clear chance. Maybe the closest we came was the 25 yarder by Norton-Cuffy? There were a lot of crosses that weren't attacked and the game largely bypassed Cullen as a number 10. And the changes didn't seem to make us much better bar maybe hopper.

I don't know how long the 'we lost despite the overall flow' of the game message at home can really go on for, it's basically a year of that? Yes we should have won in the first half but that doesn't really excuse the second.
 
Brendan Bradley said:
What has any of that got to do with overall management? You could level those complaints at coaching - though "coming up with an effective strategy to stop us losing 1-0 at home" isn't even a strategy, it's something that happened despite the overall flow of the game., and that happens quite a lot in football.

I'd like to know, ideally from @trisimp, who made the statement, but from anyone else, where he fails specifically as a "manager"? Which qualities is he short of?

There's a reason for asking, because I'd also like to know who should be the "manager"?

I'm guessing that if we finish between, say, 12-16th we're probably in the zone in which we expect to end up given the club's outlays. Any better and we over-achieve; any lower and it's an underachievement. Relegation is a failure.

Appleton will leave soon enough because of good results or bad ones, so you have to consider carefully who is going to take over given that the club has a specific policy. Many managers are not suitable for that policy.

At the moment I don't see who you would like to bring in who's going to be an improvement.

I don't say that lightly because I'm in the same position as a couple of others here who support two teams, and I fully supported the change of manager during this season at my other side.

I don't with Lincoln, because I don't think the club would attract anyone better, but I'd like to hear it properly backed-up why he's "not a manager" and I don't mean because we've lost more games than we'd hoped.
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Last night was the 7th one nil home defeat of the season. Yes it was against the overall flow of the game, but when it happens so often you cannot look at it in isolation. It’s a huge problem that MA hasn’t resolved. We do the same ‘stuff’ on the pitch week after week with no difference to the outcome. If you perceive a manager to possibly be more tactically astute than a coach as I do, then I’d suggest we’d be now at least trying to do some different ‘stuff’.
 
Well it's clear that making the play-off final last year has been a complete disaster for our manager he would have been better off finishing 16th and comfortably staying in this league. It appears to have raised expectations of our performance in League 1 to a level where although we have a great chance of surviving to spend our 4th season in this league, that alone is somehow a terrible thing and we need to fire our manager unless he can win a couple more games at home...

This is bonkers thinking, it's a short term knee jerk reaction to some poor performances. Finally in the last 6 years the club has a plan, has put in place some succession planning after finding some diamonds that revived our fortunes to a level that was utterly unbelievable 10 years ago, let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt for the one single season where the club has possibly fallen short of it's expectations and raise our heads above the last few 90 minutes and see something a bit longer term, a bit more proactive than just firing guys and hoping for the best, christ almighty the people running the club have earned that right haven't they?

I despair at our fans sometimes, we act like spoilt selfish children denied the favourite sweet of continued success when we have no right to expect it at the level we have attained. Instead we scream and stamp our feet demanding everything now...
 
r.e. loans vs permanents, I think the gap in quality between them under Sutton was greater than it is now, but that was down to how poor we recruited permanently under Sutton. I can't remember all the players but, and perhaps unfairly, I always think of Jamie Clarke, Khano Smith etc.

The quality of permanent signings (relative to the league as well) are better under MA.
 
I think the home situation has only become really obvious this season. Yes we were poor in relative terms at home last season too but with lockdown and everything else home / away became a much more blurred distinction. This season though it's been magnified, amplified and just cannot be ignored.

For what it's worth, I'd like to see us stick with the vision. I agree with our philosophy in terms of footballing style, player development and sustainability. It's painful at home at the moment. I just think we need more time and probably a bit of patience.
 
Skip155 said:
I think the home situation has only become really obvious this season. Yes we were poor in relative terms at home last season too but with lockdown and everything else home / away became a much more blurred distinction. This season though it's been magnified, amplified and just cannot be ignored.

For what it's worth, I'd like to see us stick with the vision. I agree with our philosophy in terms of footballing style, player development and sustainability. It's painful at home at the moment. I just think we need more time and probably a bit of patience.
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I’d suggest that by and large the crowd have been extremely patient, and indeed extremely loyal. Whether that patience and loyalty reflects in season ticket sales we will find out shortly.
 
Sincilbanks said:
Well it's clear that making the play-off final last year has been a complete disaster for our manager he would have been better off finishing 16th and comfortably staying in this league. It appears to have raised expectations of our performance in League 1 to a level where although we have a great chance of surviving to spend our 4th season in this league, that alone is somehow a terrible thing and we need to fire our manager unless he can win a couple more games at home...

This is bonkers thinking, it's a short term knee jerk reaction to some poor performances. Finally in the last 6 years the club has a plan, has put in place some succession planning after finding some diamonds that revived our fortunes to a level that was utterly unbelievable 10 years ago, let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt for the one single season where the club has possibly fallen short of it's expectations and raise our heads above the last few 90 minutes and see something a bit longer term, a bit more proactive than just firing guys and hoping for the best, christ almighty the people running the club have earned that right haven't they?

I despair at our fans sometimes, we act like spoilt selfish children denied the favourite sweet of continued success when we have no right to expect it at the level we have attained. Instead we scream and stamp our feet demanding everything now...
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People always make out that our fans are uniquely critical but give pretty much any team this home form and it would be negative.

Posts wouldn't be buzzing about the Doncaster game if we hadn't been good last year, even if a comparison with Sutton is over the top. And I haven't seen many posts speaking with much sincerity about firing as made out in this, either.
 
Rasenimp said:
People always make out that our fans are uniquely critical but give pretty much any team this home form and it would be negative.

Posts wouldn't be buzzing about the Doncaster game if we hadn't been good last year, even if a comparison with Sutton is over the top. And I haven't seen many posts speaking with much sincerity about firing as made out in this, either.
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If Appleton is even vaguely comparable to Sutton we should get rid as soon as shouldn't we?
 
Sincilbanks said:
If Appleton is even vaguely comparable to Sutton we should get rid as soon as shouldn't we?
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But one person making a fairly asinine comparison turning into I despair at our fans who act spoilt and want the manager sacked seems a bit dramatic.

I think there is the odd over the top post but like the match thread, find me a message board for a team that loses 1-0 at home to bottom of the league and reacts with delight or doesn't wonder why the home form has been so poor.
 
Mattytindraws said:
I’d suggest that by and large the crowd have been extremely patient, and indeed extremely loyal. Whether that patience and loyalty reflects in season ticket sales we will find out shortly.
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We will. I'm talking patience as in the philosophy and getting it right in terms of progression on the pitch. Not match to match but season to season. This season is a huge disappointment but it doesn't mean we have to bin everything and start again.

EDIT - That's a well trodden path leading nowhere most of the time.
 
First season under Michael we were fairly decent at home, won 5 in a row at one stage.
Teams have worked us out , basically the longer you can keep us out, we'll make a mistake at the back and there's your goal, game over , job done.
Doncaster have just been added of ordinary teams who've beaten us at home this season.
 
Management v Coaching

Appleton’s coaching is very good. He improves players technique

his management is lacking in the way we lose leads. Make substitutions after the fact and he relies too heavily on loans

get 2-3 top loan players that are better than what we have not 6 that are about L1 standard.

I’ve never said “Appleton out” and I won’t

the “model” seems to help the parent clubs more than us.
 
trisimp said:
his management is lacking in the way we lose leads.
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Last season we won 22 of the 28 games (79%) in which we took the lead. This season we've won 9 out of 16 (56%).

If that is an area in which he was lacking, why were those numbers good last season but not as good this season?
 
Sincilbanks said:
Well it's clear that making the play-off final last year has been a complete disaster for our manager he would have been better off finishing 16th and comfortably staying in this league. It appears to have raised expectations of our performance in League 1 to a level where although we have a great chance of surviving to spend our 4th season in this league, that alone is somehow a terrible thing and we need to fire our manager unless he can win a couple more games at home...

This is bonkers thinking, it's a short term knee jerk reaction to some poor performances. Finally in the last 6 years the club has a plan, has put in place some succession planning after finding some diamonds that revived our fortunes to a level that was utterly unbelievable 10 years ago, let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt for the one single season where the club has possibly fallen short of it's expectations and raise our heads above the last few 90 minutes and see something a bit longer term, a bit more proactive than just firing guys and hoping for the best, christ almighty the people running the club have earned that right haven't they?

I despair at our fans sometimes, we act like spoilt selfish children denied the favourite sweet of continued success when we have no right to expect it at the level we have attained. Instead we scream and stamp our feet demanding everything now...
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After trawling through endless shite on this website, that’s the best post I’ve read on here in ages. Should be posted on other threads as well.
 
Not sure about Sutton, with our home record these past 18 months he’s more comparable to Willie Bell. :downer:
 
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