Bury, Dale and Disaster Capitalism. | Vital Football

Bury, Dale and Disaster Capitalism.

R

RaggedTrouseredPhil

Vital Youth Team
Questions:

How much did Bury owe? I've heard it's about 3m. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How much did Dale pay for the club? I've heard it was £1. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

How much is the Gigg Lane land worth? Whelan got about £3m from the sale of Springfield Park and associated lands. (As a guide) So I would expect similar sized lands to be worth similar or more.

Who's best interest is it to wind the club down? Have a guess!

THIS is taking place in every walk of life but no one questions it, or raises it, or says anything. They just accept it.
Sleep now in the fire. ? Collaborative Stockholm Syndrome.

Can I just say. Unless we're successful, it'll be us in 3 years, mark my words.
 
Well as in most cases when someone buys a business for the ‘token pound’ it’s because they are buying a business that has no profits and a raft of debt ....so if and when Gigg Lane is sold then those £3m of creditors ought to be first in the queue.....whether Dale is one of those creditors or not, I’ve no idea but he may not be.
Nonetheless your point about the potential plight of our club and indeed many others amongst the remainder of the 72 EFL clubs is well made....too many of them walking a tightrope, it’s inevitable that some will fall off eventually.
As the old folk used to moan on at me in the 60’s/70’s “money’ll ruin’t game” and I wondered what the batty old buggers were droning on about ....well I know now!
 
It's not just football. Money is ruining the whole world. A prize example is architecture. Look at the old mills: Trencherfield, Eckersleys... They're beautiful buildings, designed and built to make a statement. Not only are they beautiful, imposing buildings, but inside, every pipe and engine component was polished and gleaming.

Those were the factories and industrial buildings of the day. Now take a look at any modern industrial building. Breeze block and metal cladding. Take off the signs and you'd never know one from another.

There's no pride in what they look like. They're just cheap, and that's the only factor anyone considers when designing and building them.

It's a very visual indicator of the damage that bean counters are doing the every facet of society. There's no pride, only the bottom line. Very sad state of affairs and it's only getting worse.
 
I read last week that Bury's debt is £9mill. I also read that £7.1mill of that debt (owed to 1 company now in administration and owned by the previous Bury owner Stewart Day) was bought by a company only formed in July & owned by Dale's daughter's partner.

Also, the fact that this debt formed such a big chunk of the total debt of £9mill meant that this company were able to force through the creditors agreement in the summer when many of the other creditors were against it
Also for a debt bought for just £70k the terms of the CVA meant that this company stood to make £1.75mill

You can make your own judgements from that.
I also read that 43 of the 51 companies he has been involved with have been liquidated which tells its own tale

I'm sure that I read when he bought Bury that he'd made his money from bein a guy that buys struggling companies and then asset strips them before they go under but I can't find any reference to that now so I may have imagined that or heard it about another recent club owner
 
The_Pon said:
It's not just football. Money is ruining the whole world. A prize example is architecture. Look at the old mills: Trencherfield, Eckersleys... They're beautiful buildings, designed and built to make a statement. Not only are they beautiful, imposing buildings, but inside, every pipe and engine component was polished and gleaming.

Those were the factories and industrial buildings of the day. Now take a look at any modern industrial building. Breeze block and metal cladding. Take off the signs and you'd never know one from another.

There's no pride in what they look like. They're just cheap, and that's the only factor anyone considers when designing and building them.

It's a very visual indicator of the damage that bean counters are doing the every facet of society. There's no pride, only the bottom line. Very sad state of affairs and it's only getting worse.
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In modern UK capitalism defence (not words I ever thought I'd utter) these Mills were also built at a time when workers were treated as little more than shite with no rights
 
daleks.at.the.monaco said:
Capitalism fails again.
Just like in 2008.

We need an economy that is a planned mix of state and private (again)
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Planned economies and bigger states never end very well in practice no matter well intentioned. The prime example in the 2008 crash - US Government policy trying to increase home ownership opened the door to banks to create the sub prime mortgage crisis by taking on excessive amounts of bad loans in the knoweldge that they would almost certainly be protected - that's not free market capitalism - so it's not accurate to say capitalism failed.

The problem is what is refered to as 'modern capitalism' isn't actually as much capitalism as it is Corporatism and Cronyism perverting things. If it was proper capitalism 'disaster capitalism' and bail outs wouldn't be possible and the banks and corporations would lose everything if they fail rather than be able to game the system at others expense.
 
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I had a shred of sympathy for this guy Dale given the inevitable threats he and his family have been facing and the view (don’t know it’s a fact) that the guy is seriously ill.
However having heard him on five live this aft he let his guard down and showed his true self. “Easy for me to walk away from Bury, no ties here, no other business interests here....didn’t previously know that Bury even had a football club....I’m not a football fan”....did his level best to accentuate his couldn’t give a toss attitude .....what a prize ****
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Planned economies and bigger states never end very well in practice no matter well intentioned. The prime example in the 2008 crash - US Government policy trying to increase home ownership opened the door to banks to create the sub prime mortgage crisis by taking on excessive amounts of bad loans in the knoweldge that they would almost certainly be protected - that's not free market capitalism - so it's not accurate to say capitalism failed.

The problem is what is refered to as 'modern capitalism' isn't actually as much capitalism as it is Corporatism and Cronyism perverting things. If it was proper capitalism 'disaster capitalism' and bail outs wouldn't be possible and the banks and corporations would lose everything if they fail rather than be able to game the system at others expense.
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Yes, when I wrote my original post I was aware of the issue of companies gaming the system.
That has historically been the issue. Just like the activities of UK housebuilders and the First Time Buyer Scheme.
I was being a bit broad.
 
Zeb2 said:
I had a shred of sympathy for this guy Dale given the inevitable threats he and his family have been facing and the view (don’t know it’s a fact) that the guy is seriously ill.
However having heard him on five live this aft he let his guard down and showed his true self. “Easy for me to walk away from Bury, no ties here, no other business interests here....didn’t previously know that Bury even had a football club....I’m not a football fan”....did his level best to accentuate his couldn’t give a toss attitude .....what a prize ****
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My thots to Zeb.....watched the 5Live clip n what an absolute tosspot, doesn't give a flying fuck about the club, it's fans n town, didn't know they even had a football club yet passes the EFL fit n proper test.
 
He's apparently gone back to the EFL to ask for more time and for them to reverse their decision. Says he has proof of rich buyers.
 
Supposedly there is a consortium of UK/Overseas businessmen with £7M available?.....whether it’s true, or too late anyway, we’ll have to see....but even if these guys are serious they aren’t going to conclude anything within a day or two so that would force the League to postpone another 1 or 2 games, which is something I doubt they’ll go for as they are of the view they have already postponed too many.
 
Let it go Bury fans and start again, owned by yourselves away from these shysters bigger and better than ever. Don’t get sucked in by that man.
 
The EFL, courts, FA, etc have moved heaven and earth to keep Bolton afloat so for goodness sake just give Bury one last extension and if they fail this time no one can say anything. They deserve one last chance.

The previous Bury deal collapsed at 4pm when the deadline was 5pm, there was no chance for the current consortium to make an offer. They say they are ready to go tomorrow - give them one last chance.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
The EFL, courts, FA, etc have moved heaven and earth to keep Bolton afloat so for goodness sake just give Bury one last extension and if they fail this time no one can say anything. They deserve one last chance.

The previous Bury deal collapsed at 4pm when the deadline was 5pm, there was no chance for the current consortium to make an offer. They say they are ready to go tomorrow - give them one last chance.
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Hopefully king summat just maybe going on behind the scene...hope so and it would repair a bit of EFL bad press.
 
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