'After all the talk of crisis, we're back in 4th '. | Vital Football

'After all the talk of crisis, we're back in 4th '.

Spursex

Spursex

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After all the talk of crisis, we're back in 4th.




It seems that apart from Manchester (red and blue) everyone else are showing us why the Premier League is so tough; mixed results, and unexpected outcomes have combined to put us back in 4th. That and two wins, one great, the other apparently not so hot and not what we expected or wanted..

I was not at the game, and did not watch the highlights so I am grateful to a fellow Spurs fan and friend who did go - (and wished he had not) - for his post match thoughts;

'We have been well and truly worked out; any team in the Premier league now knows how to frustrate our possession/pressing game and one by one they are all turning up and trying to do just that with varying degrees of success. Some will be better at it than others, Brighton almost pulled it off.

We simply don't have a game changer or game changers, we set our stall out and whilst tactically Poch tries to mix it up, the ultimate game-plan doesn't change.

Plenty of your posters will have made their thoughts clear about the line up and how they played, so I will not other with that, except for one thought; Sissoko will cost us 4th, he is absolutely useless, the only time he is worse with the ball, is when he is without it.

We have no great pace or guile, the sort that pushes defenders onto the back foot or makes them commit themselves and make mistakes, defending against us in depth can be tiring, but just as Brighton showed last night, if you are fit enough, relatively easy to do.

It's ok to rely on wingbacks, but neither have any guile and at times both turn inwards or pass inwards rather than take a risk to go past when they should.

We won with a couple of flukes, but also hit the woodwork a couple of times. If we don't score early at home, teams grow in confidence and work harder, when we got the first they had to try and come out and do something in the second half, but still they didn't really commit to their cause. We got a second, but came away knowing that we had dominated but with an empty feeling inside about the performance and it felt like that too during the second half when big swathes of the crowd seemed to go into exasperated hibernation.

If Poch thinks we will win anything without genuine Pace and guile, then he is badly mistaken. It is the Achilles heel of his philosophy and system of play and absolutely every half-decent manager in the Premier League now knows it - but does he?

If he and Levy do not try to address our weaknesses and failings in the January window, then this season is guaranteed to be another one without silverware and another wasted opportunity to win something with this squad before it starts getting dismantled...'




 
As I said, I wasn't there; the result was a disappointment in as much I hoped for another big win - but winning when you are not playing that well is also a real art and the sign of a winning mentality - so I'm not nearly as despondent as my friend was.

That said, I hadn't paid good money to as he put it "be put to sleep by our game-plan and performance.."
 
Headline courtesy of poster ahx00


<br><br><a href ="http://www.vitalfootball.co.uk/router.asp?7523937">Click here to read the article</a><br><br>
 
So we go from challenging for the title two years running then think scrapping it out for 4th is acceptable? Hardly a club that has a winning mentality is it?

All depends on what expectations the fans and the club has I guess. But the above is a losers mentality which will result in winning NOTHING.

Agree EX the lack of speed, pace, guile and players with ability to go past players is clearly a problem. A problem we have had ever since Poch arrived but he still hasn't addressed the issues.

I envied the way the foxes played last night. Real counter attacking football. Played with real pace and skill. Also some decent stuff in and around the box.

If teams park the bus you don't play at a snails pace which we do far too often. Teams will just sit deep laugh and deal with any trouble with ease. If Brighton got the equaliser which they nearly did it would be the same old debate over and over again.

Why do we continue to play at a slow tempo? This can't keep going on it's getting very boring to watch now as the fans at a patchy empty Wembley proved.

 
We have a very defensive oriented manager. However, when that defense is working really well our attacking play is excellent.

I have also changed my opinion and I know think Wanyama is key to our transition game.

We scored a lot of goals last year.

I don't think teams figuring us out is the issue. It is the quality of the players that we have available that MP is trying to emulate last season with.
 
80deg16minW - 14/12/2017 13:28

We have a very defensive oriented manager. However, when that defense is working really well our attacking play is excellent.

I have also changed my opinion and I know think Wanyama is key to our transition game.

We scored a lot of goals last year.

I don't think teams figuring us out is the issue. It is the quality of the players that we have available that MP is trying to emulate last season with.
Click to expand...

I'm in tune with that - without Wanyama we simply aren't the same team in terms of closing down, turning over and winning through transition, add to that the fact that dembele isn't the same player as early last season and you can see why we've slipped backwards - or at least that's how it's felt and that's how it is looking in our team play.

 
ahx00 - 14/12/2017 14:52

So this is effectively 'poster of the month', right?
Click to expand...

Can't win. BTW 10 Hoddle was 2nd in the voting last month.
 
From last season ,we've lost Walker, but we effectively lost him from January when he was tapped up by the Plastic Mancs,
Dembele very slowly recovering from injury.
Kane very slowly recovering from injury.
And Rose and Winks,
Isajoko, as much good as Orinoko
Alli and Erikson suffering from Realmadridiness.
No Wanyama or Toby.
Two new defenders
EVERYONE missing WHL
I would say it's all par for the course and Mauricio Pochetino is working wonders. I've said it before and will continue to say it
We all know the sort of players who would vastly improve us but we can only play within the current limitations.
Lamella ,Toby and Big Vic will give us a good second half of the season .
Saha and Mahrez to rotate in place of Orinoko and N,whodoo
 
Spursex - 14/12/2017 11:16

After all the talk of crisis, we're back in 4th.




It seems that apart from Manchester (red and blue) everyone else are showing us why the Premier League is so tough; mixed results, and unexpected outcomes have combined to put us back in 4th. That and two wins, one great, the other apparently not so hot and not what we expected or wanted..

I was not at the game, and did not watch the highlights so I am grateful to a fellow Spurs fan and friend who did go - (and wished he had not) - for his post match thoughts;

'We have been well and truly worked out; any team in the Premier league now knows how to frustrate our possession/pressing game and one by one they are all turning up and trying to do just that with varying degrees of success. Some will be better at it than others, Brighton almost pulled it off.

We simply don't have a game changer or game changers, we set our stall out and whilst tactically Poch tries to mix it up, the ultimate game-plan doesn't change.

Plenty of your posters will have made their thoughts clear about the line up and how they played, so I will not other with that, except for one thought; Sissoko will cost us 4th, he is absolutely useless, the only time he is worse with the ball, is when he is without it.

We have no great pace or guile, the sort that pushes defenders onto the back foot or makes them commit themselves and make mistakes, defending against us in depth can be tiring, but just as Brighton showed last night, if you are fit enough, relatively easy to do.

It's ok to rely on wingbacks, but neither have any guile and at times both turn inwards or pass inwards rather than take a risk to go past when they should.

We won with a couple of flukes, but also hit the woodwork a couple of times. If we don't score early at home, teams grow in confidence and work harder, when we got the first they had to try and come out and do something in the second half, but still they didn't really commit to their cause. We got a second, but came away knowing that we had dominated but with an empty feeling inside about the performance and it felt like that too during the second half when big swathes of the crowd seemed to go into exasperated hibernation.

If Poch thinks we will win anything without genuine Pace and guile, then he is badly mistaken. It is the Achilles heel of his philosophy and system of play and absolutely every half-decent manager in the Premier League now knows it - but does he?

If he and Levy do not try to address our weaknesses and failings in the January window, then this season is guaranteed to be another one without silverware and another wasted opportunity to win something with this squad before it starts getting dismantled...'
Click to expand...

I find it funny that people act like we're the only team who struggle to break defensive teams down. WE NEED A SANCHEZ they scream, the same Sanchez who failed to break down West Ham and Arsenal fans are whinging about. same with the Liverpool players yesterday. Not saying I wouldn't bite your hand off for Sanchez/Mane/Hazard but the fact is there are games where you throw the kitchen sink at an opposition but if they play 10 men behind the ball it doesn't work. All the teams around us bar City have had games where a mid/lower table team has parked the bus and kept a clean sheet.

I'd argue we have guile a plenty when on form. You don't score most goals in the league a couple seasons running without any guile. Sissoko has pace but no guile, Lamela guile but no great pace lol.

It was a horrible match to be at. Son for me has guile and pace, but wasn't at his mot dangerous. Danny Rose also has pace plenty and a bit of guile, but isn't anywhere near back to his best and has (hopefully temporarily) lost a yard of pace. Aurier has guile and whilst he's not the quickest he does have pace to beat a man, and produced some nice moments. I think he's got the potential to be better than Walker, but we won't see that til next season - he admitted the premier league is tough to adapt to in his post match interview. There's no two ways about it, we're weaker at RB this season without Walker.

Winks had his worst game for us but we know he's capable of better. Sissoko actually made some decent runs and his movement was much better, he even put a decent ball or two in but 9 times out of 10 he'll get into a decent position and pass to Aurier on the wing or backwards, or lose the ball. He just doesn't suit our game, centrally or wide - we must find better.
 
I said we would should get back in the mix after the last 2 and we have. Arsenal and liverpool have the same problem as us atm and are very inconsistent. A fight for 4th out of us 3.
 
Well all through this, I've maintained since the beginning of the season we'd be fighting for 3rd - recent form made me waver and I said we'd be finishing 4th...

Lose on Sat, we can drop to 7th or even 8th, win and we might hold on to 4th, draw it's probably back to 5th or 6th again...either way, it's tight and we have to focus.

For those that argued that Wembley wouldn't make a difference this season - do they still think that I wonder?
 
The usual over reaction. We hit the woodwork twice and had two goalmouth scrambles which begged the question....how did that not go in . Lamela narrowly missed. We could easily have had 5 or 6. If those chances go in , none of this doom would have been regurgitated.

We got the 3 points. Key players were rested. Rose and Lamela good sharpness minutes. Son is still shining, Eriksen was better, Kane is getting stronger, Dier was better, Aurier scored and may help his confidence. Brighton parked the bus and played deep. I don't see how a fast tempo is going to make any difference, they just sit back and wait.

The City game will show us where we are. We have nothing to lose , we may as well go hammer and tongs at them which is why an easy and slow game against Brighton is ideal.I wouldn't be surprised if we beat them.

 
If we sit back and passy sidey bckey thy will murder us!
However...
a fast direct tempo closing them down and not giving them an inch and we can pull off a big surprise
 
freundorfoe - 14/12/2017 17:26

Spursex - 14/12/2017 11:16

After all the talk of crisis, we're back in 4th.




It seems that apart from Manchester (red and blue) everyone else are showing us why the Premier League is so tough; mixed results, and unexpected outcomes have combined to put us back in 4th. That and two wins, one great, the other apparently not so hot and not what we expected or wanted..

I was not at the game, and did not watch the highlights so I am grateful to a fellow Spurs fan and friend who did go - (and wished he had not) - for his post match thoughts;

'We have been well and truly worked out; any team in the Premier league now knows how to frustrate our possession/pressing game and one by one they are all turning up and trying to do just that with varying degrees of success. Some will be better at it than others, Brighton almost pulled it off.

We simply don't have a game changer or game changers, we set our stall out and whilst tactically Poch tries to mix it up, the ultimate game-plan doesn't change.

Plenty of your posters will have made their thoughts clear about the line up and how they played, so I will not other with that, except for one thought; Sissoko will cost us 4th, he is absolutely useless, the only time he is worse with the ball, is when he is without it.

We have no great pace or guile, the sort that pushes defenders onto the back foot or makes them commit themselves and make mistakes, defending against us in depth can be tiring, but just as Brighton showed last night, if you are fit enough, relatively easy to do.

It's ok to rely on wingbacks, but neither have any guile and at times both turn inwards or pass inwards rather than take a risk to go past when they should.

We won with a couple of flukes, but also hit the woodwork a couple of times. If we don't score early at home, teams grow in confidence and work harder, when we got the first they had to try and come out and do something in the second half, but still they didn't really commit to their cause. We got a second, but came away knowing that we had dominated but with an empty feeling inside about the performance and it felt like that too during the second half when big swathes of the crowd seemed to go into exasperated hibernation.

If Poch thinks we will win anything without genuine Pace and guile, then he is badly mistaken. It is the Achilles heel of his philosophy and system of play and absolutely every half-decent manager in the Premier League now knows it - but does he?

If he and Levy do not try to address our weaknesses and failings in the January window, then this season is guaranteed to be another one without silverware and another wasted opportunity to win something with this squad before it starts getting dismantled...'
Click to expand...

I find it funny that people act like we're the only team who struggle to break defensive teams down. WE NEED A SANCHEZ they scream, the same Sanchez who failed to break down West Ham and Arsenal fans are whinging about. same with the Liverpool players yesterday. Not saying I wouldn't bite your hand off for Sanchez/Mane/Hazard but the fact is there are games where you throw the kitchen sink at an opposition but if they play 10 men behind the ball it doesn't work. All the teams around us bar City have had games where a mid/lower table team has parked the bus and kept a clean sheet.

I'd argue we have guile a plenty when on form. You don't score most goals in the league a couple seasons running without any guile. Sissoko has pace but no guile, Lamela guile but no great pace lol.

It was a horrible match to be at. Son for me has guile and pace, but wasn't at his mot dangerous. Danny Rose also has pace plenty and a bit of guile, but isn't anywhere near back to his best and has (hopefully temporarily) lost a yard of pace. Aurier has guile and whilst he's not the quickest he does have pace to beat a man, and produced some nice moments. I think he's got the potential to be better than Walker, but we won't see that til next season - he admitted the premier league is tough to adapt to in his post match interview. There's no two ways about it, we're weaker at RB this season without Walker.

Winks had his worst game for us but we know he's capable of better. Sissoko actually made some decent runs and his movement was much better, he even put a decent ball or two in but 9 times out of 10 he'll get into a decent position and pass to Aurier on the wing or backwards, or lose the ball. He just doesn't suit our game, centrally or wide - we must find better.
Click to expand...

Ah but it's not just the odd game we struggle to beat teams. This has been a long term problem.

I think 80 makes some valid points, our team this year just isn't as good as last season for numerous reasons. Still we must improve with what we have. We still have good enough players to play at a higher tempo.
 
Spursex - 14/12/2017 17:53

Well all through this, I've maintained since the beginning of the season we'd be fighting for 3rd - recent form made me waver and I said we'd be finishing 4th...

Lose on Sat, we can drop to 7th or even 8th, win and we might hold on to 4th, draw it's probably back to 5th or 6th again...either way, it's tight and we have to focus.

For those that argued that Wembley wouldn't make a difference this season - do they still think that I wonder?
Click to expand...
Think your're right Ex,we played the same teams last season at The Lane, apart from the promoted ones and they all parked the bus and tried to frustrate us. Yet we still beat them with style and we were a joy to watch,so Wembley is definitely a factor.
 
Did anyone say it wouldn't be a factor?

I always thought it would be a problem we could overcome, and still do. I recall some fans saying we wouldn't win a game there all season - or that we'd only win 3 or something.

I think we'll continue to win games at Wembley but I wish there was a better atmosphere. There's around 40k season ticket holders and yet you're lucky if a chant breaks out every 15 minutes most games.
 
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