Our NHS (n/G)

[GillsBluenose]

I don`t know what the answer is, but it does seem that the current NHS is simply unsustainable and will bankrupt the UK if things don`t change.

If anything is worth bankrupting the country, it is a well functioning health service, NHS or otherwise. Without good health, what is anything else worth?

One of the problems is inefficiency and waste which does need to be tackled before any government can ask the public to pay more to fund it going forward. The money pissed up a wall for the failed new IT system of a few years back and more recently the Michelle Mone debacle will have affected public trust.

The other thing I would do is means test access to NHS Dentistry. I have never thought of the dentist as being the same as the doctor or surgeon, or that we should expect the NHS to fund dental treatment if we have the means to do so ourselves. Exactly how far do we expect NI contributions to stretch?
It seems bizarre when the NHS can not and does not fund hospices or air ambulances but there are still wealthy people expecting their dental treatment to be subsidised in that way and bemoaning not being able to find an NHS dentist. Keep that for people on benefits and children IMO.

 

[Gills77]

We don't have an NHS crisis
We don't have a housing crisis
We don't have a social care crisis

We have a population crisis. We admitted net 10+ million people, probably 95% of whom are net-takers and then we wonder why public services are falling apart.

We are currently spending £7 BILLION a year accommodating economic migrants.

 

[Buddha]

We don't have an NHS crisis
We don't have a housing crisis
We don't have a social care crisis

We have a population crisis. We admitted net 10+ million people, probably 95% of whom are net-takers and then we wonder why public services are falling apart.

We are currently spending £7 BILLION a year accommodating economic migrants.

Shouldn't you be in Richmond Terrace?

 

[Gills77]

If anything is worth bankrupting the country, it is a well functioning health service, NHS or otherwise. Without good health, what is anything else worth?

One of the problems is inefficiency and waste which does need to be tackled before any government can ask the public to pay more to fund it going forward. The money pissed up a wall for the failed new IT system of a few years back and more recently the Michelle Mone debacle will have affected public trust.

The other thing I would do is means test access to NHS Dentistry. I have never thought of the dentist as being the same as the doctor or surgeon, or that we should expect the NHS to fund dental treatment if we have the means to do so ourselves. Exactly how far do we expect NI contributions to stretch?
It seems bizarre when the NHS can not and does not fund hospices or air ambulances but there are still wealthy people expecting their dental treatment to be subsidised in that way and bemoaning not being able to find an NHS dentist. Keep that for people on benefits and children IMO.

How many people are receiving money to sit at home and not work?

 

[Gills77]

Shouldn't you be in Richmond Terrace?

1) No actual response to my post? What do you think that suggests?
2) What is Richmond Terrace?

 

[EagerExile]

We don't have a social care crisis? What planet are you on? Hospitals are full of elderly people who could be discharged IF the staff and facilities were in place to keep them safe at home. But they're not. And, by the way, a huge proportion of care workers were not born in the UK, because most of us Brits haven't got the right attitude or commitment to want to do such jobs.

 

[Buddha]

1) No actual response to my post? What do you think that suggests?
2) What is Richmond Terrace?

1) That I can't be bothered discussing this with you. You've spouted so much nonsense on this thread already that I think, as I already told you, that continuing to discuss this with you any further is futile.

2) A place in London.

 

[Therealwaldo]

Over the last few years we have seen the largest increase in the number of UK billionaires on record and the largest increase in the wealth of billionaires on record. At the same time we spend one of the smaller percentages of our GDP on health amongst our peer countries. We have nearly the lowest number of hospital beds as a % of population in Europe. Yet we still get “oh we can’t afford the NHS”. The level of brainwashing in this country is truly astounding. It’s all about political choices.

 

[Gills77]

We don't have a social care crisis? What planet are you on? Hospitals are full of elderly people who could be discharged IF the staff and facilities were in place to keep them safe at home. But they're not. And, by the way, a huge proportion of care workers were not born in the UK, because most of us Brits haven't got the right attitude or commitment to want to do such jobs.

So what do you propose, pay the Brits money to sit at home?

Keep doing that for anyone who doesn't want to work?

 

[Gills77]

1) That I can't be bothered discussing this with you. You've spouted so much nonsense on this thread already that I think, as I already told you, that continuing to discuss this with you any further is futile.

2) A place in London.

1) Of course it's futile. I formulate the world based on logic. You formulate the world based on emotion. It's why you have to make so many silly personal responses.

2) Right and?

 

[markinkent]

What do you think the Tories should/could have done?

Having been in charge for 12 years they could have looked to remove the inefficiencies or the layers of redundant management and directed the funds to the front line.

They could have been brave enough to increase NI and just tell the public that's what it costs to invest in the NHS (or used the money from the bus).

 

[Buddha]

(or used the money from the bus).

 

[markinkent]

I don`t know what the answer is, but it does seem that the current NHS is simply unsustainable and will bankrupt the UK if things don`t change.
I`m sorry to read that your daughter has been so unwell, Mark. Hope that her condition/reason for substantial hospital care, improves. All the best to you both.

Thanks Lancs - she's been out for around 9 months now and is managing her condition well. She's back to work and paying back her debt to the NHS ;-)

She has an Eating disorder and its really scary how many people are affected by them and the percentage that won't recover. She filmed a documentary just after leaving hospital the first time but at that stage it was starting to be clear she would need to be readmitted. It was a tough watch but we learnt a lot about the illness by watching that documentary and she hopes that by speaking openly about it that she may help others.

On the plus side she made some great friends while being treated and many of them are making good recoveries and she's kept in touch with a few.

Its an evil illness and if anyone has young kids (especially girls) keep an eye out for any symptoms. That said it can affect people of any age just most prevalent in teenage girls. I'm not going to go into any details on an open forum but happy to chat by direct message if people want to know more or have questions. Like most things the more people talk the more these things can be tackled.

Agreed that the current NHS is unsustainable but I hope we find a way to keep it free at the point of use. It's full on inefficiencies (like every big organisation) and that's what we should go after.

 

[markinkent]

If anything is worth bankrupting the country, it is a well functioning health service, NHS or otherwise. Without good health, what is anything else worth?

One of the problems is inefficiency and waste which does need to be tackled before any government can ask the public to pay more to fund it going forward. The money pissed up a wall for the failed new IT system of a few years back and more recently the Michelle Mone debacle will have affected public trust.

The other thing I would do is means test access to NHS Dentistry. I have never thought of the dentist as being the same as the doctor or surgeon, or that we should expect the NHS to fund dental treatment if we have the means to do so ourselves. Exactly how far do we expect NI contributions to stretch?
It seems bizarre when the NHS can not and does not fund hospices or air ambulances but there are still wealthy people expecting their dental treatment to be subsidised in that way and bemoaning not being able to find an NHS dentist. Keep that for people on benefits and children IMO.

I tend to agree with lots of this but am conflicted.

I struggle with why Air Ambulances are charity funded yet road based one's aren't. Is it right that charitable sector steps in and takes over governments responsibilities ?

NHS dentistry is hard to find but should preventive stuff be only for those who can afford it ? I have an NHS dentist but have to pay for the hygienist (£60) but that is preventive so is that better VFM for the NHS than the cost of corrective actions ?

I was at the Dentist last night. NHS check-up - £26. I don't pay for doctors for my diabetes check up once a year (blood test, retinopathy, ultrasound of the feet etc. etc.


Maybe the hybrid model is the way to go to make it sustainable.

 

[Jerryattrick]

Having been in charge for 12 years they could have looked to remove the inefficiencies or the layers of redundant management and directed the funds to the front line.

They could have been brave enough to increase NI and just tell the public that's what it costs to invest in the NHS (or used the money from the bus).

Although i agree i must add that they did try and increase NI (a socialist option) but the media and both opposition partys shouted it down as evidently it was a 'tax rise against the poor'. Doesnt give you much hope when the opposition is also making political decisions instead of principled ones.

 

[Gills77]

Having been in charge for 12 years they could have looked to remove the inefficiencies or the layers of redundant management and directed the funds to the front line.

They could have been brave enough to increase NI and just tell the public that's what it costs to invest in the NHS (or used the money from the bus).

1) The bus didn't say "would" or "will", it implied "could"
2) The NHS budget increased every year from 2015 to at least 2022
3) There will always be inefficiencies in an organisation that size
4) Isn't this more down to the NHS management, than the Government?
5) I don't have NHS budget to hand. Call it £100bn. You'll probably find savings of £1-2bn from inefficiencies.... whilst we spend £8bn accommodating economic migrants.

 

[markinkent]

Doesnt give you much hope when the opposition is also making political decisions instead of principled ones.

Sadly they all do and its getting worse

Rwanda is exactly that. It will do little in practical terms but it plays well with a chunk of the electorate. "look how tough we are" with about 200 people at huge costs to the country.

Could retrain some of them to be dentists at a similar cost.

On the subject of immigration my last four NHS dentists have been Iranian, African (forget which country), South American (forget which country) and either Polish or another eastern European country - never had the courage to ask him.

Bloody immigrants coming over here.... take, take, take without contributing ;-)

 

[markinkent]

1) The bus didn't say "would" or "will", it implied "could"

4) Isn't this more down to the NHS management, than the Government?

1) Really - I would say "lets" was definitely a statement of intent if Brexit won.

2) It is - and as a publicly funded organisation the Secretary of State for Health for delivering VFM. Perhaps they should have demanded more efficiencies

 

[Vambogills]

5) I don't have NHS budget to hand. Call it £100bn. You'll probably find savings of £1-2bn from inefficiencies.... whilst we spend £8bn accommodating economic migrants.

You're going to really lose your $hit when you discover the number of 'economic migrants' that have played for the football team you support.

 

[Gills77]

You're going to really lose your $hit when you discover the number of 'economic migrants' that have played for the football team you support.

You think I care more about football than the future of the UK?

If you cannot see the current trend and what the UK will be like in 50 years..... well, you must be blind.