MATCH THREAD … The NLD 28/4/24 Home | Page 3 | Vital Football

MATCH THREAD … The NLD 28/4/24 Home

I hate saying this...but if this is 100% factual....I actual would lean towards Conte's approach more.

AP's supposed 'I could give two shits about my opponents' approach is naive and quite honestly UTTERLY FUCKING DUMB at this level. This is the PL not some lower quality league where you can get away with that....like he did. EVERY team from top to bottom can beat you in this league, which is why it is great, and you must respect them.

If this is actually true, and I have to believe there is some miscommunication going on here....his time will be short next year.
I think he is a purist, and there are lot of them in football, the ones that wholeheartedly just believe that if they play better, then tactics make no difference - arguably, the very best teams do that now; ManCity are probably the leading lights of this approach and the you can argue about the rest...
 
I think he is a purist, and there are lot of them in football, the ones that wholeheartedly just believe that if they play better, then tactics make no difference - arguably, the very best teams do that now; ManCity are probably the leading lights of this approach and the you can argue about the rest...

Well to be fair...City's approach has been the gold standard for years...and have been able to treat the PL like a lower level league for quite some time...they have been that much better than everyone else. They can and do impose their will on other teams and dictate from start to finish. They have been exposed a little this year and teams are catching up...but hell they are still in the driver's seat to win again!

And I guarantee you Pep...is gameplanning for every game and ensuring his troops know what is coming at them.
 
An interesting perspective from Training ground guru:


WHAT CONSTITUTES TACTICAL WORK?​


This raises interesting questions about what constitutes tactics and tactical work - and about the contrasting playing and training philosophies of different managers. First of all, Postecoglou’s game model is very different to that of Conte or Jose Mourinho, who Dier previously played under at Tottenham.
Whereas the latter duo generally prefer their teams to quickly retreat into shape when they lose the ball and then counter-attack, Postecoglou plays a possession-based style and wants his players to press aggressively to regain.
In a webinar with Hudl, when he was manager of Yokohama in the J-League, Postecoglou outlined his playing philosophy. He said: “Certain things are non-negotiables and the first one is I want my teams to have the ball.

“Our defensive work doesn’t stray from our core belief - we are a team that want to have the ball. As a coach, when I’m watching the game, I’m just not comfortable when the opposition have the ball. Our whole defensive set-up is, 'Let’s get the ball back off them as quickly as possible.’”
The second point is about how different coaches deliver their coaching sessions. As Dier said, Conte liked “a lot of 10 versus zero, walk-throughs.”
Postecoglou prefers to deliver what former England rugby coach Brian Ashton has called “the reality of the game," whether that's in or out-of-possession. He would also assert that in and out-of-possession work shouldn't be done in isolation anyway.


READ MORE: Rene Maric ~ From blogging to Bayern Munich

The Australian said: “If you're talking about do we do training where we're standing around and working on how we're going to stop an opposition, how we're going to break down, no we don't do that.”

Ashton has told TGG that “rather than coaching isolated drills and techniques and putting together systems and structures,” he prefers to coach “the reality of the game, the fluidity of the game, the rhythm of the game… decision-making in the moment.”

The reason behind this is that the game is dynamic and unpredictable and the best way to prepare for it is to replicate this in training.

“It’s very difficult to predict from minute to minute what’s going to happen in a game, so there’s a lot of volatility,” Ashton explained. “There’s a good old military saying - no plan survives its first contact with the enemy. I’ve been in plenty of games as both a player and coach where that has very much been the case.

“After 10 minutes, you’re thinking, ‘wow, this is not what we expected.’ That could be for a whole variety of reasons - the opposition going through a purple patch, the referee interpreting the game differently to how you think it should be, players getting sent off, your best player going off injured.

“There are a million and one things that happen in the middle of a game that you just can’t predict.”

The definition of a tactic is an action or strategy to achieve a short-term goal. Rene Maric created a famous blog focused on tactics called Spielverlagerung, but even he is moving away from a focus on tactics.

Speaking on the TGG Podcast, the Austrian, who is now Head of Coaching Methodology at Bayern Munich, said: “You have decisions of players - tactics is the word people use to influence these decisions.

“In the end, I see my role as a Head Coach as influencing and improving the decision-making of the players. I think the word tactics is very confusing, actually. I only think about it from the players' perspective and in terms of their decision-making.

“With formations, you might make it harder to grasp, and then you may need half a second longer, and then you might not be able to execute that decision or you might make the wrong decision.”
 
An interesting perspective from Training ground guru:


WHAT CONSTITUTES TACTICAL WORK?​


This raises interesting questions about what constitutes tactics and tactical work - and about the contrasting playing and training philosophies of different managers. First of all, Postecoglou’s game model is very different to that of Conte or Jose Mourinho, who Dier previously played under at Tottenham.
Whereas the latter duo generally prefer their teams to quickly retreat into shape when they lose the ball and then counter-attack, Postecoglou plays a possession-based style and wants his players to press aggressively to regain.
In a webinar with Hudl, when he was manager of Yokohama in the J-League, Postecoglou outlined his playing philosophy. He said: “Certain things are non-negotiables and the first one is I want my teams to have the ball.

“Our defensive work doesn’t stray from our core belief - we are a team that want to have the ball. As a coach, when I’m watching the game, I’m just not comfortable when the opposition have the ball. Our whole defensive set-up is, 'Let’s get the ball back off them as quickly as possible.’”
The second point is about how different coaches deliver their coaching sessions. As Dier said, Conte liked “a lot of 10 versus zero, walk-throughs.”
Postecoglou prefers to deliver what former England rugby coach Brian Ashton has called “the reality of the game," whether that's in or out-of-possession. He would also assert that in and out-of-possession work shouldn't be done in isolation anyway.


READ MORE: Rene Maric ~ From blogging to Bayern Munich

The Australian said: “If you're talking about do we do training where we're standing around and working on how we're going to stop an opposition, how we're going to break down, no we don't do that.”

Ashton has told TGG that “rather than coaching isolated drills and techniques and putting together systems and structures,” he prefers to coach “the reality of the game, the fluidity of the game, the rhythm of the game… decision-making in the moment.”

The reason behind this is that the game is dynamic and unpredictable and the best way to prepare for it is to replicate this in training.

“It’s very difficult to predict from minute to minute what’s going to happen in a game, so there’s a lot of volatility,” Ashton explained. “There’s a good old military saying - no plan survives its first contact with the enemy. I’ve been in plenty of games as both a player and coach where that has very much been the case.

“After 10 minutes, you’re thinking, ‘wow, this is not what we expected.’ That could be for a whole variety of reasons - the opposition going through a purple patch, the referee interpreting the game differently to how you think it should be, players getting sent off, your best player going off injured.

“There are a million and one things that happen in the middle of a game that you just can’t predict.”

The definition of a tactic is an action or strategy to achieve a short-term goal. Rene Maric created a famous blog focused on tactics called Spielverlagerung, but even he is moving away from a focus on tactics.

Speaking on the TGG Podcast, the Austrian, who is now Head of Coaching Methodology at Bayern Munich, said: “You have decisions of players - tactics is the word people use to influence these decisions.

“In the end, I see my role as a Head Coach as influencing and improving the decision-making of the players. I think the word tactics is very confusing, actually. I only think about it from the players' perspective and in terms of their decision-making.

“With formations, you might make it harder to grasp, and then you may need half a second longer, and then you might not be able to execute that decision or you might make the wrong decision.”
Think it might take Ange a bit longer to perfect what he wants .
 
There is nothing like a NLD to rouse the blood and lift the spirits. Talking of lifting the spirits, part of the stadium we will host the game on has seen a countless succession of THFC legends grace the same hallowed piece of earth. Let’s hope they all emerge from the shadows and help propel us to victory.
 
I think he is a purist, and there are lot of them in football, the ones that wholeheartedly just believe that if they play better, then tactics make no difference - arguably, the very best teams do that now; ManCity are probably the leading lights of this approach and the you can argue about the rest...
Brighton get a lot of praise for this, yet they hang around in the lower mid table area all season. They've been in the Premier League for 7 years now with their highest finish being 6th place. Da Zerbi has spent over £100m in fees over the past 2 seasons and took over when they were in an ascendancy. If anything, they've gone backwards.

Pep had a goldmine at his feet when he took over at City, he couldn't do any wrong with what he's been given.

Ange hasn't even had a single season and he's come into a complete mess, not a well oiled machine. The pressure must be absolutely immense and I'd hate for him to start getting pushed out the door without being given a real chance.

Once he has the team he wants and needs, then I think we can judge him.
 
Brighton get a lot of praise for this, yet they hang around in the lower mid table area all season. They've been in the Premier League for 7 years now with their highest finish being 6th place. Da Zerbi has spent over £100m in fees over the past 2 seasons and took over when they were in an ascendancy. If anything, they've gone backwards.

Pep had a goldmine at his feet when he took over at City, he couldn't do any wrong with what he's been given.

Ange hasn't even had a single season and he's come into a complete mess, not a well oiled machine. The pressure must be absolutely immense and I'd hate for him to start getting pushed out the door without being given a real chance.

Once he has the team he wants and needs, then I think we can judge him.
That’s a very fair assessment!
 
Brighton get a lot of praise for this, yet they hang around in the lower mid table area all season. They've been in the Premier League for 7 years now with their highest finish being 6th place. Da Zerbi has spent over £100m in fees over the past 2 seasons and took over when they were in an ascendancy. If anything, they've gone backwards.

Pep had a goldmine at his feet when he took over at City, he couldn't do any wrong with what he's been given.

Ange hasn't even had a single season and he's come into a complete mess, not a well oiled machine. The pressure must be absolutely immense and I'd hate for him to start getting pushed out the door without being given a real chance.

Once he has the team he wants and needs, then I think we can judge him.
Fair play there tlc, I have to say ditto with SNo1
 
Brighton get a lot of praise for this, yet they hang around in the lower mid table area all season. They've been in the Premier League for 7 years now with their highest finish being 6th place. Da Zerbi has spent over £100m in fees over the past 2 seasons and took over when they were in an ascendancy. If anything, they've gone backwards.

Pep had a goldmine at his feet when he took over at City, he couldn't do any wrong with what he's been given.

Ange hasn't even had a single season and he's come into a complete mess, not a well oiled machine. The pressure must be absolutely immense and I'd hate for him to start getting pushed out the door without being given a real chance.

Once he has the team he wants and needs, then I think we can judge him.

What is this complete mess you talk about? We had a fully optimised stadium and had spent an absolute fortune on progressive players over 2-3 years. Ange started with the best squad since the 16/17 season. Unlike that squad, this one is a young squad as well.

Conte was a mess. The club wasn't perfect but it wasn't a mess.

As for de Zerbi, in the last 2 years he's given back £150m to the club. There is about a £400m difference in net spending between our 2 clubs over the last couple of years. When I think about it like that. I would say he's doing quite well only being a few places behind us in the league.
 
What is this complete mess you talk about? We had a fully optimised stadium and had spent an absolute fortune on progressive players over 2-3 years. Ange started with the best squad since the 16/17 season. Unlike that squad, this one is a young squad as well.

Conte was a mess. The club wasn't perfect but it wasn't a mess.

As for de Zerbi, in the last 2 years he's given back £150m to the club. There is about a £400m difference in net spending between our 2 clubs over the last couple of years. When I think about it like that. I would say he's doing quite well only being a few places behind us in the league.
So you wouldn't say there have been several cultural changes from Poch, to Mourinho, to Mason, to Nuno, to Conte, to Stellini, to Mason and finally go Ange? That's a tidy ship, spending all of those funds in an efficient way, is it? I'd argue that's a mess. How many players has he binned off, with several more to go?

Kane, our greatest player of all time was put on a pedestal and had a light shining up his arse at all costs, Dier, Davies, Lloris, Ndombele, Lo Celso were never going to see the light of day but hung around to run out their contracts.

What about the homegrown side of things with this incredible academy we have?

As for Brighton, they've got shades of Spurs under Jol. I like seeing underdogs doing well, remember Reading back in 2006?
 
So you wouldn't say there have been several cultural changes from Poch, to Mourinho, to Mason, to Nuno, to Conte, to Stellini, to Mason and finally go Ange? That's a tidy ship, spending all of those funds in an efficient way, is it? I'd argue that's a mess. How many players has he binned off, with several more to go?

Kane, our greatest player of all time was put on a pedestal and had a light shining up his arse at all costs, Dier, Davies, Lloris, Ndombele, Lo Celso were never going to see the light of day but hung around to run out their contracts.

What about the homegrown side of things with this incredible academy we have?

As for Brighton, they've got shades of Spurs under Jol. I like seeing underdogs doing well, remember Reading back in 2006?

First of all, I hope Brighton is not a Reading. I live in Berkshire and it is very sad to see a club mis-managed so badly. I'm hoping Brighton is a big enough city that they can operate at this high level. Reading has a great academy and just feeds the London clubs. Brighton could perhaps become a stable PL side and have looked it in recent years.

As for the (cultural) changes, most of what you talk about was done either before Ange came or despite him joining. It was especially nice to see the toxic element of the squad moved on or parked somewhere else on loan. Needs must. That includes the England captain. I hope we can now churn the remaining ones though, even the good eggs like Davies who come up short on ability.

In my opinion, we've relied too much on managers to create the club culture. It's Levy's ship and he needed to set a better culture from himself downwards. His comms were awful and he realised he needed to step aside. That was the biggest impact on the culture of the club I saw. Fabio's senior energy was infectious and I hope Munn's and Lange is the same. Those changes were also the reason we changed so quickly from last season to this. More so than Ange walking in but he obviously helped as the main spokesperson for our club.

We are still transitioning, and Ange seems a decent guy. He needs to change the narrative by August and start being proprietorial about HIS talented squad he'll be given. I'm OK that he feels he's a couple short right now, but the tactics are the bigger concern. Nothing like a NLD win to help me allay those concerns though.
 
Cast yourself back to this time last year. It was bad. It then got worse as the delay with appointing a manager. The club was seemingly directionless. We then picked one who was largely met with ridicule. Our best player of all time was moving on. Our club captain was too. We seemingly missed out on our number 1 manager choice. We seemingly missed out on our number 1 goalkeeper choice. We seemingly missed out on our number 1 and 2 CBs.

It's easy to say the squad he inherited was good now after several months of Ange getting a lot out of these players but back then it was a different story.
 
Straight swap at LB with Davies, or does Ange have another plan?

Poor old Ben might end up with the squad's worst points per game ratio by the end of the season.
No Udogie..

So surely it MUST be VDV (LWB) Dragusin and Romero, so a back three if Porro isn't fit and a back four with Porro at RWB....

IF Ange doesn't start like this now, then we can all believe Dragu isn't the player we all hoped he'd be..
 
No Udogie..

So surely it MUST be VDV (LWB) Dragusin and Romero, so a back three if Porro isn't fit and a back four with Porro at RWB....

IF Ange doesn't start like this now, then we can all believe Dragu isn't the player we all hoped he'd be..

I wouldn't jump to conclusions on the player when there are question marks over the manager's tactics. From memory Draugusin was playing on the right of a back 3 at his last gig.

I'd definitely be playing Porro at LB on the training pitch. If Ange is stubborn enough to persist with this system then Porro is the one out of the remaning 3 full-backs that can drift into midfield. He has the touch and passing. That could open up a chance for Dragusin to move over to the right.
 
No Udogie..

So surely it MUST be VDV (LWB) Dragusin and Romero, so a back three if Porro isn't fit and a back four with Porro at RWB....

IF Ange doesn't start like this now, then we can all believe Dragu isn't the player we all hoped he'd be..
I think we all know he'll probably go with 'Five-out-of-ten-Ben'.

As much of a happy clapper as I am, I think we're going to have to look to next season for answers